HalftimeAdjustment
-
Posts
3,144 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Gallery
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by HalftimeAdjustment
-
-
I agree with fines, picks and gw suspended. SP I think is a fine, and no player suspensions in my book, unless we learn more. The felon story is new to me so it might grow still.
I don't see grounds for player suspensions unless something else comes out. The players are the employees of the team. They participated or even endorsed this, but if it was just players then it probably would be the same in almost every other team. Even Vilma offering $10K on Favre is borderline, not sure it is something they can nail him on under the CBA... a fine perhaps.
Sean Payton's problem is that the NFL apparently has an email from this Ornstein guy to Sean Payton detailing the bounty scheme. The NFL previously tried to get the Saints to distance themselves from Ornstein after he was convicted of fraud, but he was still around in 2011. You know the league is going to be very unhappy with any guy who is convicted of selling non-game worn jerseys as authentic game-worn jerseys, but still is involved with offering cash for players to perform acts in a game (whether interceptions or big hits). Same guy who represented Reggie Bush. Classy situation New Orleans has going on here.
Here's a few links to consider on this aspect of the story.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2012/3/2/2840512/mike-ornstein-new-orleans-saints-bounty-program
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14087531/why-didnt-saints-cut-ties-with-sketchy-ornstein
-
So, thinking about this and looking at the details. Some of the bounty money was provided not by players, nor by GW, but also by a convicted felon who was a friend/associate of the head coach but was convicted of fraud (in part for selling falsified NFL merchandise). Hypothetically, if following the money trail led back to gamblers, what would the penalties be? Can anyone support OUTSIDE money coming into an organization to pay players to do anything on the field (let alone injure an opponent)? League has to put this down hard or else the scandal will keep growing. Players putting up their own money is one thing ... Coaches paying players is worse (violates the salary cap, etc)... but having non-team employees contributing to bounties is a completely different level and is no different from gambling.
Saints have to lose draft picks and be fined, Payton must be suspended for his association with the felon, and GW who is a repeat offender must be suspended 1yr+.
-
-
So... I think this is really bad. But, it may be "common practice". That's not good. If it is "common practice" then the NFL needs to take actions to prevent it from being "common practice".
Here's how I would handle it if I was Goodell:
1) First rule, anyone who lied to league investigators gets a much larger penalty than those who did not cover it up. So, players who participated but never lied to the league office get nothing more than a slap on the wrist. They can use the "everybody does it" and/or "peer pressure" excuse. Players who lied to league office: 1 game suspension. Can't ever condone failure to cooperate with an investigation.
2) Coaches who participated get punished, regardless, by fine. If coach also lied about it - suspension. Personally I think G. Williams should be suspended for 1 year or more, if he ran the program and lied about it as well. If he just ran the program, I might let him off with a big fine. $100K?
3) Head coach and GM: Fines.
4) Team: Give the owner a chance to impose internal discipline. If no discipline... hit them with a loss of 4th round pick.
Most likely they will let it slide though.
-
Or.... You could put bonuses in one year. And keep salaries lower in the future.
You don't pay guys the same amount every year.
Aren't bonuses required to be spread out for cap accounting purposes?
-
Keep in mind that we the Bills work with a cash to cap system so unless you save a bunch of money with the players you want to cut, you wont have alot of money to work with.
You won't? Is there any evidence of this? A cash to cap system should mean that the amount of cash already committed to contracts this year is less than or equal to our salary number, unless there are a lot of roster bonuses this year.
If our current cap number is $105 million and the cap is $120 million, what is our current "Cash" number?
-
Comments on Bell were most enlightening. My understanding was that they are not going to back up the truck for him. His injury history is a problem and will factor into negotiations. I think they will try harder for Stevie than for Bell. I suspect that Bell may leave because once free agency starts the Bills are in no better position with a player like Bell than any other team. Signing or no signing they will add a Tackle.
His injury history will also be scrutinized by other teams when they consider how much to offer.
-
Perhaps this is the real meaning of the infamous Chad Kelly tweet.
-
That is a bunch of BS. If he throws a pick or fumbles, and then tries to make a play to stop the other team from running with the ball then he should be treated as just another player.
Wow this league is getting way too protective of their QB's.
Can you grab him tightly and pull him out of bounds for his own protection?
-
Thanks, I understand that they are grandfathered in. My point is they are, in essence, props for props sake, are they not. Writing "happy new years" on a shirt does no harm to anyone... yet jumping on some fans very well could. What happens when one fan takes it to far when a player jumps in the stands. The problem is inconsistency IMO.
It's not a good rule. What would be a better rule? Do we want referees to have to judge the content of T-shirts. Happy New Year is OK. "F You Rex Ryan" is not. "Why So Serious?" is. "I like feet, too" is not. Where do you draw the line?
-
Mike Pereira already tweeted today that the goalpost dunk and Lambeau Leap are "grandfathered." Which is completely stupid, of course, but is also the rule. As players, theirs is not to reason why. Theirs is to follow the GD rules.
They should probably change the rule on dunking, but for now it is allowed. The leap however cannot be considered a prop, in my opinion, and is really not just a Green Bay tradition. It should remain allowed.
-
But he wasn't penalized last year. And what exactly is a prop. A football. A goalpost. Jumping into fans.
Sometimes, players are not penalized for holding either. That does not mean it should never be called. Also, wasn't he fined (not penalized), where a fine usually indicates the league thought it should have been a penalty?
Sometimes, players are penalized for "driving" Tom Brady into the ground when all they did is shove him. That is a bad call, but does not mean actually driving a quarterback into the ground is OK.
The rules actually explicitly allow certain celebrations including jumping into fans (which I think is fine). Apparently, dunking the ball is allowed as well (I think it should not be).
If you use a goalpost and ball to simulate filming the Pats, that can be fined. Even though it is funny.
-
Well there in lies the problem. The inconsisstency of when and where they are called.
That's an issue for the league, not for Chan. Because SJ had already received one penalty this year (Jets) and there were tweets before the game indicating he knew he might be fined, one has to conclude he knew he was walking the line. Whereas, Clay Matthews having done the same celebration multiple times can be pretty sure he is in the clear.
If you are arguing that the league should lighten up on celebrations with a prop, I have mixed feelings. A Happy New Year T-Shirt is not a big deal to me. Neither is Why So Serious for that matter, nor do I think that (for example) someone making a camera motion with the ball is a big deal, nor for that matter signing it with a Sharpie. Pulling out a cell phone and making a call before reaching the sidelines seems like a bit much. On the other hand, the examples of running to the middle of the field and freaking out seem over the top. The main problem is, drawing a line is not that easy. For now, there is a line drawn: No celebrations where you fall down in the end zone and no celebrations using a prop until you get back to the sideline (apparently). Not my favorite rule but it is a rule. Any reason SJ could not have run over to the Bills' sideline, then pulled up his shirt???
-
I'll take a stab at this... NO, Drew Bree's has been known to celebrate quite a bit, Him and Jimmy Graham dunk on the goal post. They don't hold hands and do it together. Very much a Me-First celebrations. Aaron Rodgers does the belt celebration, Clay Matthews does the Predator celebration. Those are both "me first" celebrations. Hell there is an entire commercial for the Predator celebration. Is it after a TD? no, but Matthews runs to the middle of the field, by himself, which makes it a very much about me celebration. Coaches all allow these. Just because they don't get penalized doesn't make them any different than what SJ did or has done. SJ never got penalized last year for writing on his shirt, he got fined. So that was the Refs call to throw the penalty, because as far as the rules go I don't think they changed. I think the poster was making the point that celebrations happen and to think they are going to go away is foolish.
And, if any of these drew penalties, do you think that Sean Payton and/or Mike McCarthy would not try to nip it in the bud, rather than allowing it to continue? How many times has Clay Matthews drawn a penalty? Whether the rules are fair or not is a different issue. I agree that the taunting level of the other celebrations is higher than that of a "Happy New Year" shirt. However, if Clay Matthews drew a 15-yard penalty after his sacks, would Mike McCarthy try to stop it from occurring again??
-
The only thing I can fault Stevie for is not having a great since of humor. If Chan would get this emotional when his coaches devise a garbage game plan or by the fact that we missed the playoffs again then maybe I would think he has a clue. The fact of the matter is when player score touchdowns they celebrate....this is not the 1970 NFL anymore so lets not assume immaturity when it happens, get over it. I'm surprised by the posters that feel that no one is good enough to be a Buffalo Bill because there was such a display of inappropriateness by having Happy New Year on your shirt..on Jan. 1. I'm sure he will be successful at his next stop if he leaves. I would like to see Chan focused on building a winning philosophy than sweating the stupidly small stuff. Its been so long since we have had a decent team that we have lost focus on what really matters, building a winner without any preconceived conditions like building by the draft. All of the winning teams build any way they can because they are more concerned with producing a winner than how they are building the winner.
Has Rob Gronkowski or Aaron Hernandez drawn multiple celebration penalties this season for going outside the rules? Yes, Hernandez celebrated - he did not draw a penalty and if he did would it have been premeditated and repeated?
How about the Green Bay Packers, do their players celebrate? Yes, they do. Do they draw multiple unsportsmanlike conduct penalties in a single season?
New Orleans Saints?
Forget the 1970 NFL and preconceived notions. Please identify the teams in the NFL, in the current year, that have both a playoff record and a culture that allows me-first celebration. Please identify the showboats on the divisional leaders. Please point at the coaches of playoff teams that are not known for running a tight ship. That would make a stronger argument that the team should overlook this behavior.
-
Franchise him?!? Have you calculated what that would cost?!? YIKES!!
I say pay him $5 mil base with options to get him to his figure of 7.5. Show me more in a couple and re-negotiate.
You mean, offer him a contract worth $5M base with options to get to 7.5, then watch him leave as another team offers him at least 6.5 per? Just clarifying.
-
+ 1 !!!!!!
Everyone attacking Chan & defending SJ on this Board is completely misguided. Even the announcers are explicitly saying the Bills need defensive help......ergo, SJ's benching had nothing to do with the Bills giving up 49 freaking unanswered points.
Agreed about the 49 but it might have helped us answer. Fitz has chemistry with SJ. Might have seen fewer INTs. Would not gave resulted in a win most likely but we will never know.
-
Oh wait, so the Bills did in fact score "AFTER" Stevie Johnson was benched?
Yes... 1 TD. Then it went in the toilet.
-
Stevie Johnson is a retard!!!!
I think he is a malcontent because he knows they were not ready to pay him so he did not care anymore. He forced the issue and avoids injury.
-
This should be a fireable offense.
unless they are happy that Gailey helped turn public opinion against Stevie Johnson.
If he didnt get benched like this, its not a big deal at all.
If they were not signing a deal at 7.5 per year then you have to think Nix and Bills upper management had no intent of bringing SJ back. Chan is on solid ground here.
-
The problem is you play to win.........when one benches their best wr against a terrible pass defense....one would be considered to be a dumb coach.....1 half on benching is plenty.........All of the "stevie" haters on here obviously dont understand how bad the bills passing game will be if they bills do ship him out......
No, I think he is clearly the best receiver and the offense is suffering without him. But he is a selfish player who cannot be relied on to be part of a winning culture. He will need to be replaced so we shpuld sign someone else with his money.
Having said that, if he did not say anything else I would have put him back on the 2nd half. He is under contract now and enough message has been sent to other players. No need to worry about the message to SJ he will never hear it.
He will get the message from his agent at 430 today when they discuss whether he helped his market value.
-
Hard for me to say Stevie is a Bill next year after today. Too bad.
He is headed to Washington, Tampa Bay, Jacksonville, or Minnesota after this. Some other teams will not touch him.
-
Gailey apparently agrees with a lot of people on this board. I have lost all interest in this putz. He already lost one game being an idiot. Now he could lose his second. its his fault not the Bills
We also do nt know what was said on the sideline. That could be an aggravating factor.
-
Really bad if true. No Johnson or Chandler, it will be hard on Fitz.
They can put Johnson back after the half and act like he got a stern talking to at halftime.
Now Greg Williams is a cheater?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
The question of relative penalties for the Saints vs. other organizations has come up in this thread, as well as "statute of limitations". A couple of points:
- If the NFL has previously considered a 'statute of limitations' for penalties then it should apply here. One would think that going after any teams beyond 10 years is out of the question. 5 years is a long time in pro football. No easy answer here. Saints were in continued violation.
- Teams that lied about it and/or failed to cooperate with the investigation (read: New Orleans) must be punished far more harshly than any teams which cooperate. Cooperation from other teams TBD. I would argue that if either the Redskins, Bills, or Titans cooperate with the investigation then that team should face no more than fines. No competitive penalties.
- New Orleans included outside (non-player, non-coach) money in its bounty pool. This is an extreme red flag and must be considered very problematic. Any team where outside money is found, must face severe sanctions regardless of points 1 or 2. Here's why: Outside money inevitably leads to organized crime. You might think "If a gambler offers money to players to make good plays, they are wasting money; the player should be doing that anyhow". Not so: the gambler pays the players for a while to do good things, then blackmails them into doing bad things based on their having taken dirty money in the past. The fact that the outside money in New Orleans may not have been tied to gambling, is irrelevant. Any outside money being allowed into a team's compensation system, is in my opinion as severe a violation as can be made from a management perspective; and on this basis alone Sean Payton (who received an email from a non-team source detailing the bounties) should be suspended and fined heavily. Ask yourself: in this case, what would an MLB commissioner do??? All of the "it's only football, which is violent" discussion is nice, but what about taking OUTSIDE MONEY to reward players??? So... if that did not happen at other teams, they should be penalized much, much less.