JuanGuzman

Is the economy finally starting to catch another gear? It seems like the news on the U.S. Economy has been more positive of late, e.g., GDP growth accellerating, deficits shrinking etc. . What are people on PPP thinking...?

Looking into the future, one of Donte Whitner or Marshawn Lynch will at least be playing in a superbowl.

I know the polls measure Obamacare as unpopular, part of that is the terrible roll out of the program, and part of that is the negative emphasis the republican's place on it. But I think when you ask American's about individual pieces of the law e.g., should insurers be dis-allowed from denying insurance based pre-existing conditions? you find general support for a lot of ACA principles I'm of a mind the the polls will change once people see that the law is helpful and the tea party hyperbole is shown to hot air, Obama won the election that was the most important feedback the american people gave, he won a mandate. Sure if you want to repeal the law by all means do it through the elecoral process, elect a president promising to repeal obamacare, elect senators and congressman who will get rid of it etc. But you can't just go ripping up legislation because polls about a program that hasn't even been fully implemented show xx per cent of people are against it etc.

I don't mind admitting the roll out sucked, terrible that the exchange has so many bugs in it when it was launched. ACA is the administration flagship law, the other side just exhausted a lot of political capital shutting down the government in an attempt to repeal it. You should make sure the tech is working relatively well before you go live. That being said tech failures get fixed, dumb advertising campaigns get replaced. The merits of policy are what matter, and like I said before this is policy is a big improvement on the previous statusquo.

I generally agree with you. Anecdotes alone are not very convincing alone. But mainly that was is what I'm hearing from the other side on this anecdotes about plans being cancelled, Show me anecdotes with data, if you follow most of my posts in this thread they are either looking at big picture data or explaining the theory but once in a while it's nice to post a story about someone saving some money

Link: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2013/12/17/obamacare

Seems as if Pajamaboy has got everyone talking about health care #gettalking

I don't think it does, those comparisons are harder because you have to adjust for how sick the average patients are. I realize the fact that VA health care works does not mean that the individual mandate will work. I post it mainly because it combats the generic argument that governments shouldn't be in the health care business. If anything VA care is the most heavy handed government health program out there as they are a provider of health services not just an insurer. But if you want to see examples of a working individual mandate look at Germany or Massachusetts.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/medicare/2010/06/07/va-health-care-system-rated-highly-in-government-report/ "A recent report by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) says the VA (U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs) does a much better job controlling health care costs than the private sector delivery system which is used by Medicare and all private sector insurance plans. The CBO estimates that the VA’s health care cost per enrollee grew by only 1.7 % from 1999 to 2005, which amounts to 0.3% annually. Medicare’s costs grew 29.4 % per capita over that same period, or 4.4 % per year. In the private sector insurance market (employer and individual plans) premiums increased by more than 70% during this period. The CBO report also says that the VA scores better than the private sector when it comes to patient/customer satisfaction. In 2005, the VA achieved a satisfaction score of 83 out of 100 for inpatient care and 80 out of 100 for outpatient care. The same survey showed private-sector providers of got 73 for inpatient care and 75 for outpatient care." I know that VA had trouble dealing with the influx of veterans after Iraq and Afghanistan but to 3rdning comments this form of government health care has performed well in terms of cost control

see this is my problem with you DC Tom, I ask you to explain how it was incorrect and you don't, or are unable to. Just another vague assertion that my examples don't fit your criteria. I listed reforms that will achieve cost savings or deliver better services. I argue that they are efficient. Explain to me how they are not? Demonstrate a modicum of usefulness and make an argument please

Enjoyed this comment

What incorrect information exactly did I present and how was it incorrect?

Haha well lets just end this debate in true message board form, by both calling each other an idiot. You're the idiot! Anyway like I said many times over I'm interested in watching Obamacare evolve over the next few years and seeing who was right and wrong. I'll check back in here to either face the music or to crow about the improvement in the U.S. health care system thanks to the Affordable Care Act.

Yeh we will see how he performs. I think being a NFL punter is a high pressure job regardless of record, it comes from knowing that you have non-guaranteed contract and can be cut at anytime for under performance. As a fan god knows I am quick to pile on the punter if he screws up because its so easy to evaluate his performance. Basically one job is too punt far without allowing a return.

haha thats all you got? You think I'm idiot cause i correctly stated that some of the Obamacare principles evolved from the Heritage Plan. Note that I was responding to a guy who linked to heritage piece about administrative costs it was and topical and I referred to it as an an FYI.

Wish Powell good luck. I think he has the leg but as young player couldn't handle the pressure in Buffalo.

What is the argument regarding the heritage proposal of an individual mandate about anyway? Personally it doesn't make a lick of difference to me if some of the policies in the ACA were from Heritage Institute or not, I was just pointing it out for interest. Here is link: http://healthcarereform.procon.org/sourcefiles/1989_assuring_affordable_health_care_for_all_americans.pdf check out page 6 Anyway again just a point of interest What matters is the actual policy on how it affects health markets. But please enlighten me on this issue

Neither of you seem capable of making actual arguments. Just your typical Ad Hominem logical fallacies out of your mouths.

Thanks. I'll have to review the article before I can comment in full but in principle the logic to your argument does make sense, I wonder if its addressed in the NEJM paper. I'll note though that one wau medicaid and medicare can hold down costs by not doing any advertising. This is from the CBO: link: http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9924/12-18-keyissues.pdf re: page 69 Just an FYI it was the Heritage Institute that first proposed the Individual Mandate... many of the ideas in the ACA come from conservative ideas in the past link: http://healthcareref...sourceID=004182

I'll accept that. I'm just pointing out that medicaid has done a good job of controlling per-capita costs

why?

Haha oh man, I'm supposed to believe the internet commentator ranting about his access to terrabytes of data. Yes it's all a conspiracy. Look the reality is people with sharpminds, advanced degrees have had their work peer reviewed and come to the same results about administrative costs. Bllomberg Business Week: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-04-10/the-reason-health-care-is-so-expensive-insurance-companies New England Journal of Medicine: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1209711 I give you OECD data showing U.S. isn't getting very much bang for their buck in terms life expectancy and per-capita health spending... and you respond with blinding ignorance, nothing to see here folks. I give you examples of obamacare inititiatives to lower costs such as expansion of medicaid And you barely blink "oh yeh sure they doing a way better job keeping costs low but what about outcomes" keep in mind that these people can't afford insurance in the private market because insurance companies can't get an appropriate risk pool because of information assymetry e.g., the patient knows more about their health status than the insurance does. They now have access to preventative treatment. what if you lost your job? thanks to Obamacare you will no longer be denied insurance because of pre-existing condition. Or what if you wanted to work as a consultant because the hours and pay was better. well than you'd be pretty happy to be able to get affordable insurance as a private individual. honestly none of you have the ability to argue effective salient points on this issue (you've been swallowed whole by asinine talking points". nor is there insterest in getting to the bottom of U.S. health challenges. you just throw crap at the wall and see what sticks.... "Cadillac Health Plans are efficient" haha http://www.newrepublic.com/article/113323/obamacare-cadillac-tax-conservatives-should-love-it Conservative should love this, it's a repeal of government subsidy for insurance that cause people to over consume health services, Unions are filled with cadillac plans and I say get rid of em. Or you "insert anecdote about so-so losing their insurance because of obamacare" even though the net effect on insurance rolls is positive. By 2017 the CBO expects to the number of uninsured to be reduced by 27 million people http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/43900_ACAInsuranceCoverageEffects.pdf or you say you are going to do something and don't Why don't you actually do it OCinBuffalo.. crush each bullet point instead of patting your fellow idealogues on the back for making non-sensical points Obamacare ain't perfect but its way better than the status quo... 1) more people will be able to get health insurance 2) per-capita spending on health care will slow because of the efficiency cost control measures in the act 3) productivity will increase as people can finally move from job to job, from employed to self employed without worrying whether they can get insurance 4) U.S. Health Outcomes will improve

Wrong the whole point on Cadillac plans is that it causes people to over consume e.g., too much health care because of favourable tax treatments. Since one good is being taxed (income) and another isn't health care. High income earners over invest in it,

Starting to question your intelligence if you don't think the ACA measures i listed are efficient. Getting the same drugs for less money = efficient promoting competition through online exchanges = efficient reducing hospital re-admissions through incentives for better treatment = efficient reducing the number of cadillac plans that inefficiently use health resources = efficient Access Preventative Care that lowers life time spending health and improves outcomes = Efficient reducing administrative fees = Efficient ect the list goes on.... cutting costs and maintaining or in this case improving service is a textbook definition of improved efficiency. Anyway, it's clear most people have made up their mind in this room. (at least those commentating). I doubt I can convince anyone support Affordable Care Act, and I don't think I'll be convinced by anyone that ACA is worse than the status quo. The awesome thing is we are going to have the next half decade to see who was right and who was wrong. I look forward to it

Here it is: The United States Census Bureau annually reports statistics on the uninsured. The current Census Bureau report states that the number of Americans living uninsured declined to 48.6 million in 2011 from 49.9 million in 2010. In in 2009 there were 50.7 million people in the US (16.7% of the population) who were without health insurance. link: http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/income_wealth/cb11-157.html