MattM

On that last point, I think that's dealt with in at least the Slate piece on this topic by the fact that before 2007 everyone played with the same ball so there was no incentive to deflate the ball, meaning no reason for there to be a differential for home and away.

That's a fair enough point--I think judgment was more what I was going after. Poor word choice.

How does that explain differential fumbling rates for the same players when they play on different teams? For ex., BJGE fumbled like a million times more with Cinci than the Pats*. On a related topic, with hindsight am I the only one wondering if a deflated football is why Brady didn't fumble when Jerry Hughes perfectly tomahawk chopped him at home this year? Looked to me like a perfect play that usually results in a fumble, but Brady held onto it. I remember thinking "wow, great presence/awareness" at the time, but maybe there was more at play there.

Not being sarcastic at all--he's dating some bimbo wannabe actress young enough to be his granddaughter, who he started dating less than a year after his wife's death. Kind of shows his character, if you ask me. Imagine how his kids feel every time he brings along his new GF. Then again, I've always been more attracted to smart women. Can't imagine being in a relationship with someone not my equal in the brains dept. Even in his case, he could have tried dating a real, working actress. For ex., Lucy Liu is dating some rich older hedge fund billionaire. She's attractive, a working actress with a real career and went to both Stuyvesant HS (NYC's best public magnet school) and Michigan, so she's no dummy. She's also a bit more age appropriate for old Bob (as far as these things go!). There, see, I could fix all of Kraft's dating problems!

I disagree on the won't win if can't cheat part--they are a good team, which makes the cheating part odd (and personally I do believe they cheat, in many ways). I also wonder if the use of NFL provided balls may have had something to do with Tommy's less than normal performances in the last 2 SB's. In particular, that early intentional grounding floater that seemed to get away from him as a safety in the last SB.

And by all accounts his wife (whose family brought the $ to the table, since Kraft effectively married the boss's daughter) was a great woman, which kind of makes his gallivanting around with an "actress" less than half his age a bit nauseating. Kraft's not a dumb guy--Columbia and HBS alum that he is--so you'd think he could find an accomplished, wonkishly attractive woman in her mid-to-late 40's to squire around instead.

This thread is epic. Ask yourself if you'd have believed two weeks ago that people would be spending so much time discussing the inflation of balls. Absolutely hysterical, no matter how this all comes out!

I hate them, too, but I think you may be getting ahead of yourself a bit there. There's still the game on Sunday, remember, and a long ways to go in this investigation. I'm touching wood that you're correct, however!

I don't think it was the Colts' balls he had--the home team also has to supply backup balls. I suspect it was those. From some unconfirmed reports, what makes it suspicious is that those backup balls also tested at normal pressure, unlike the Pats* actual game balls which deflated.

Interesting question--I think they were in separate bags, and he allegedly only did 11 of 12, which makes it a bit easier. He might have been able to simply pop a needle into each quickly knowing the result is roughly 2 psi each, but that's still a lot of balls. Two odd things here-- 1. If he he was only going to the bathroom briefly, why take the balls in with him in his own locker room? It's not like a fellow Patriot player, coach or Staff member's going to do something to them in such a short time in plain sight (at least before this case!); and 2. We seem to have dueling leaks with competing narratives going on the last few days. Will be interesting to see what finally comes out here.

Well said.

With the sources they have, I suspect that when folks like Glazer and Peter King (see his Friday article on this) speak as authoritatively as they are here, there is plenty of fire with that smoke, but we'll see eventually.

You're a peach, I'll give you that. My bad on the cameras--I was thinking TV, not security, but boy am I glad that they existed and were on. We might actually get some justice here for a change with these Cheats*, unless of course Roger pulls his usual with his favorite team/owner and destroys the evidence and says once again "move along. Nothing to see here". BTW, you keep accusing me of changing the subject, but as anyone who can read can see, I'm addressing points you've made right in what I've quoted. You keep changing your defenses as they fall, one after another. I suspect (but as Alphadawg says, we don't for sure yet know) when this is all said and done, you'll have none left.

Kind of galling, isn't it?

Anyone else not understand the "they have lied to me" part? No idea what he's saying there, since he goes on to say he stands behind them wholeheartedly.

Wow--I had not seen that. You're right about his sources being top notch; he's also a notorious Pats* homer, so for him to write something like that the Pats* are screwed 8 ways to Sunday. Couldn't happen yo a nicer team/coach/owner/fan base......

That only works if the Pats* lose--if they win on Sunday, it will still be a big deal in 3 months' time.

So, you are onto the "everyone else does it, too" defense even though there's never been evidence that ANYONE else, much less EVERYONE else does this Absolutely priceless comedy gold..... Even funnier because your main defense was there was no proof that the Pats* do this (and now there is), while there's absolutely zero proof (circumstantial even) that anyone else has done this.

To my mind, the one new piece of info in that PFT article is another unnamed League source saying other than the picked off ball (which was 2 psi below normal), the others were closer to only 1 psi below normal, which contradicts what other unnamed League sources supposedly said earlier this week. Personally, I think we need to know: 1. What the initial pressmen psi results were for all 3 sets of balls; 2. what the halftime readings for all 3 sets; 3. What the chain of ball possession was for the bad balls; 4. What the pre-measurement process was for the bad balls--I personally think that part of BB's presser yesterday was not believable. He made it sound like their ball buffing is done immediately prior to testing, which defies both common sense and what TB apparently said earlier this week; 5. What the final readings were for all 3 sets post-game; and 6. Definitive scientific opinion on 4's ability to influence psi count as claimed by the Pats*. If this truly was a sting operation, I'd expect them to have all the data above other than 3 and 4.

Great post--you should send this to the major news orgs, as it's better than anything I've seen to date by them.

Another good one--a Univ. of Toronto professor deflates Pats*' fans benign explanations for Deflategate: http://blogs.canoe.ca/krykslants/nfl/deflate-gate-u-of-toronto-physicist-discredits-natural-pressure-drop-theories/

But the evidence as we understand it so far (including Bill Nye above) is showing that the Pats* are cheaters and now, after yesterday's press conference, liars, too. Does anyone who has an even rudimentary understanding of science believe his explanation that simply rubbing a football will cause the pressure to go up temporarily in a measurable, material amount? I also question that they do this essential rubdown (which would have Tom Brady sitting there oking the balls) immediately before the game time measurement. That seems non-sensical to me, along with lots of other things that make no sense in their narrative, including why the Colts' balls didn't suffer the same fate. I also saw a segment on Face the Nation this morning (yes, Bob Schieffer, too, weighed in on this!) in which the USA Today guy covering this story essentially called out Belichick's BS on this, too. I think they tried the "baffle 'em with BS" approach yesterday, which didn't seem to fool anyone paying attention. We'll see if it fooled the masses, however, which may be all they really intended.

Seems kind of funny that you're defending a team here that was known as the place old vets went and seemed to regain a step and one of whom (Rodney Harrison) was caught for HGH use by being dumb enough to order it to his own address under his own name (the only way one could get caught, since the NFL doesn't test for it). I suspect that's a future Pats* scandal that will come down the pike sometime in the future....

On your first point, theoretically, but (a) I wouldn't expect the mere rubbing of the ball's surface to have such a dramatic effect and (b) it strikes me as non-believable that that rub down practice takes place immediately before the balls are tested. That strikes me as a day before event. I watched the PC and thought he was spinning as fast as he could.

I think they're still owned by Time Inc, which got spun out of TIme Warner a few years back when Meredith wouldn't buy them (but I think they did buy some of their more niche mags). Very tough business these days. I have a number of writer/editor friends working in publishing (including some at former TW mags) and it's an increasingly brutal business. No one seems to know how to make $ since we all expect free web content. I also play cards every now and then with one of the very senior guys on the business side there--I missed the game at his house, but from descriptions I got it sounds like for some folks the uncertainty has paid dividends.....