Reed83HOF

This is for you, listen to the end...

I agree with all of this...

I've been busy today and haven't had a chance to hop back in here yet. Obviously this is all conjecture, part of the fun (or frustration) is trying to put pieces of a puzzle together.... Not that Jordan Plamer speaks for Josh, but obviously there is a closeness there, looking at who may or many not be credible or have some knowledge of a situation based on relationships with the parties is our only real avenue to try to get some insight on what's going on. As fans we also have a way of accepting or dismissing information in what we want to or not want to believe. This certainly seems to be something that is multifaceted and there is not just one root cause. For Palmer to make a comment like this, he has some level of knowledge and obviously felt compelled enough to put this tid bit out there, if any of us care to know by delving into the topic, it is up to us to try to decipher it... “It’s less about Ken Dorsey & what he isn’t. It’s more about Brian Daboll. I think a few years from now we’ll all say that’s the best coach in football… ... “What Josh benefited from with Daboll was not just the play calling but learning the game… learning the game from who Bill Belichick and a lot of other people think is one of the smarter dudes in the league at teaching the position”." It's not Josh and Dorsey at all, it's giving him an elite mind to help teach him the game and to mentor him through the challenges of what teams are game planning against him as well as unlocking the understanding of the game within himself to get to that other level. When you have someone you have that level of respect for, it is easier to listen to the constructive criticism they are providing to you. I mean there is a chance that Daboll is one of those minds...

If that's how they truly thought an out wouldn't exist at the end of next season in that contract. Schoen rightfully saw the qb market about to explode and kept what they had. How much was that both him and dabolls choice vs the owner who badly wants Jones to succeed?

He's not taking them because it's who he is. He knows he can and had made those throws and plays in the past and thinks he can do it again. He is not the let's live to play another down guy and if it is a close game he is going to press and press to score or get the first down in 3rd and long. Josh's tendency is to get it all at once...

Josh would never be that guy

It's not really an x's and o's or there is a problem with the scheme, it's what the qb is choosing to do and feeding into his bad impulses. There certainly is the arm arrogance part of it, look at the int on the route where Davis was jumped. Space took a step or hesitated towards covering him instead focusing on the TE in front of it, which created a small window for josh to fit the ball in there. Whitehead read josh the whole time, what Aikman said about Davis route was true and if allen led the ball more outside ot may have been a catch like it was in the past. Hey I made this throw before and I can do it again instead of taking the other 2 options who would get me the first, the TE sauce was covering or the LB on Diggs over the middle. Psychology when you have a qb who can make throws no one else can and is a risk taker, it is easy to be baited into taking those shots especially in a close game. Being wired the way he is with his physical abilities is entirely different than Brady who will dink and dunk you to death... Peyton Manning who is likely as of now the best QB to ever play the position had built-in mentors within his own family. One of Mahomes biggest strengths is his understanding of the game, IIRC, he even mentioned that he doesn't watch much film either and he wasn't the best at reading the defense. It's that stiff that is missing, guys are open, but you need the tough love to pullback on those negative tendencies... People generally only follow the tough love of people they respect as knowing more than them and that have thought them and brought them along...

We don't need Tebow

There certainly was a rift between him and McD and there were certainly times the offense stalled during his time as OC, I'm certainly not disagreeing with any of that, what I do see different is the mentor-mentee relationship that him and Allen had is absent and that allows those bad traits to start to surface again. Allen certainly had those bad traits during his time with Daboll as well, but Josh did appear to learn from it and limit those opportunities. Lol Over the last 16 or 17 games, Josh is a bit different and the offense feels harder to get moving. The over the top stuff isn't there and Josh is pressing and the bad habits are creeping back. That's where that trusted mentor comes in, it's the soft skills and the trust between the teach and student or coach and player. He was hired because he was the best candidate available, the owner wants someone who can fix Jones, but that doesn't mean he can be. In any event the giants will be rebuilt like the Bills, competitive tear down and rebuild. Regardless of what a team says about a QB or any player, what their actions and not their words...Zach Wilson is our guy....

It's not just about adjusting to different coordinators. Josh lobbied for Dorsey to stay as the OC... As @Buffalo716 said above: "They had a great Bond.. that Brian was able to develop since Josh was 22... Brian was able to rip into him and give him criticism... Without pushback What all professional football players need.. a coach to coach them I don't think Allen respects Dorsey enough to be coached by him... Sure he can play under him... But he doesn't fear and respect him enough to take in coaching" The respect can easily be tied to Daboll's understanding of the game and that Josh bought into and recognized that. In any part of life, when you have that mentor who is on another level and you realize that - you accept that teaching and coaching, you give the respect and it is much easier to take constructive criticism from due to that trust and respect. Once that mentor leaves, yes you learned things and are better than you were before, but are you willing to accept constructive criticism from that next mentor if they are on a level or 2 below? Personally, in my work life, I struggle with that (generally because I know more than they do LOL). There are only a handful of people in my professional life I would accept constructive criticism from, because they are levels above me... Josh's work with Jordan was mechanics...This isn't mechanical.

Come on Hapless, you are better than to take an isolated look at 1 game for each team this season...Hard to believe you are attempting an argument on the Giants losing 40-0 on Sunday. Assuming you think Bellicheck is an excellent coach, how did his team lose 31-0 to us on opening day? Poor argument there... Something has certainly changed. Last year after the jets game, the injury was a concern for everyone and it did affect his play, it is very possible that there is something more going on. "As easy as it is to chalk Allen’s errors up to Week 1 rustiness against a debilitating team, the outcome was troubling because it is a continuation of the downward spiral that Allen’s slid down in the 19 games he’s played since his 2022 Divisional Round classic against Patrick Mahomes. On the heels of his legendary fourth-quarter barnburner against the Chiefs and a second-place finish in 2020 MVP voting, expectations for Allen were sky-high. However, his off night is looking like the new normal for Allen while his stretch between 2020 and 2021 is the outlier. In the 13 games since beating the Kansas City Chiefs in a raucous Sunday afternoon showdown in October of last year, Allen has thrown 22 touchdowns to 16 interceptions. He’s fumbled 13 times as well. If you go back even further to the beginning of 2022, he’s committed 39 turnovers over his past 19 games." This looks more like decision-making on his part and wanting to rely on his talent for the big play, which teams are game planning away, more than taking his easy button and hitting the open guys. Josh being a big boy as a 6 year old vet, doesn't eliminate the need for coaching to reign in his bad habits. Having a coach who you respect and trust, can be real (tell it like it is) and that you are willing to be able to accept constructive criticism is something that someone with his tendencies likely requires. He has been able to get where he is based off of his unique physical characteristics and his ability to ball and those tendencies are ingrained in who he is. He is very Favre like and is able to pass the ball in situations where others can't - his arm arrogance. Thinking deeper and borrowing off of something I heard today from a psychologist(it is late and I'm making this quick and not overly detailed as I am freaking exhausted) about the physical development of the brain... As a whole, the frontal lobe is responsible for higher cognitive functions such as memory, emotions, impulse control, problem solving, social interaction, and motor function. The prefrontal cortex coordinates higher-order cognitive processes and executive functioning. Executive functions are a set of supervisory cognitive skills needed for goal-directed behavior, including planning, response inhibition, working memory, and attention [19]. These skills allow an individual to pause long enough to take stock of a situation, assess his or her options, plan a course of action, and execute it. Poor executive functioning leads to difficulty with planning, attention, using feedback, and mental inflexibility [19], all of which could undermine judgment and decision making. The frontal lobes, home to key components of the neural circuitry underlying “executive functions” such as planning, working memory, and impulse control, are among the last areas of the brain to mature; they may not be fully developed until halfway through the third decade of life [2]. This finding has prompted interest in linking stage of neuromaturation to maturity of judgment. Having the trusted confidant to help continually reinforce the elimination of bad habits, to call you out, to teach and coach you while your still fully developing may be a bigger loss than everyone of us as fans expected. I'm sure someone here will make a comment implying that Josh has poor executive functions, when the fact is he may not be at the stage of life where that is fully physiologically developed. Having that close person to help coach you through that in the game of football, may be under estimated. If you took Andy Reid away from Mahomes after 5 years and replaced him with a first time OC and you took away his version of Josh's Daboll, it is reasonable to assume he would take steps back in some areas as well in relation to his tendencies and skill set and some bad habits could appear. That entire support and coaching system and confidant is now gone.

yup... The Giants have an escape hatch after the 2024 season. They can cut ties with Jones to create $21.5 million in cap savings while eating $18 million in dead money. It’s not ideal to eat $18 million in dead money, but with a projected $282 million salary cap in 2025, the Giants could absorb that hit if they’re compelled to dump Jones

That team overachieved last year and will regress towards the mean this year; they are are 3-4 year rebuild and still need to find a QB. Most of the threads I think there is an agreement amongst the fan base that the working relationship between Josh and Daboll is missed. Josh would take his a$ chewing and would learn and grow...

Aggressive pass rush = screens or draw plays to counter it. We can't run a screen to save our life, so I get the draw plays. Spencer Brown's penalty in OT killed us and put us in 2nd and long. They did have a light box against us, so I get the call there... I'm hoping Brown develops more and we preach competition at every position, but yet we went in very thin at RT and didn't bring in anyone who could push him. The preaching on protecting himself is to slide or get out of bounds and not leap over 6 guys or turn back in after you get the first...just avoid the hit. Josh is not cut from that cloth and will almost always initiate the contact

I'm interested to see what fruit this thread bears

“It’s less about Ken Dorsey & what he isn’t. It’s more about Brian Daboll. I think a few years from now we’ll all say that’s the best coach in football…” “(Bill Belichick) made a comment to me once & we were talking about Daboll and he said ‘Daboll’s one of the only coaches I’ve ever been around that can be an elite offensive coordinator, an elite defensive coordinator & an elite special teams coordinator. He understands football at that level.’” “When you lose that, you aren’t just gonna replace it.” “What Josh benefited from with Daboll was not just the play calling but learning the game… learning the game from who Bill Belichick and a lot of other people think is one of the smarter dudes in the league at teaching the position”. Edit - I can't find the clip from Cowturd right now

I would have hit Knox all day long.... That INT when he was targeting Gabe, that's just a tough throw - if the ball placement was a bit better and more outside, he would have had that, but Whitehead read it the entire time - arm arrogance there. I totally get the temptation when Sauce stepped up - he was like I got this and just didn't even look at the safety. I easly can see where just taking what they give you gets a little frustarting for him. At the beginning of the show, I did find it interesting on the Cover 6 they kept calling against us. The end with talking about Bernard was a really nice chat as well. I like Eric's thought of comparing Milano's first season to Bernard's - there might be something here with him.

Watch the Cover 1 film breakdown Jets baited hero ball Josh, Josh bailed on the OL - Morse had a rough night, easy throws were there - he didn't take them, some arm arrogance on the undercut Whitehead INT (josh hit the same play in Detroit last year though, but he had Diggs and the TE open for the first. He just pressed and pressed some more and made some bad decisions

I was watching this and just updated it to throw this in here...It certainly wasn't on Dorsey With the film breakdown, it wasn't Dorsey the easy plays were there. The one INT on the pass to Davis where Whitehead undercut, it was arm arrogance. He had 2 other throws for the first down. On the arm punt INT, he could have ran it (we know), but Knox had a few steps on Mosely for a huge possible gain. The basic breakdown is that, The Jets baited the hero ball out of Allen...

Have I said anywhere in this post that it was? Definitively?...nope Lighten up Francis...

You left out the last part, "that's who he treats everyone"

The "arm arrogance" is definitely part of this. He somewhat understandably has the Favre in him. I still feel like Daboll was able to control it by getting to him... This is just a comment, while I'm not hating on Dorsey, knowing that he was a hell of a college QB, I do wonder if the urge is there to just play madden in real life with Josh who can do almost anything on a football field. I feel like that's how I would call plays and trying to drop 60 on everyone lol

Lol it's what people do nowadays. Thought this would be a fun post for the board 🤣😇

Not sure if I'd call it trash talking exactly... "He's gonna do what he wants to do.He'll look at my face and say FU, that's how he treats everybody..."