[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

20 minutes ago, teef said:

again, you're making assumptions.

 

 

on top of that, your looking at inflation from 2016 to 2023?  do you think that's taken into account the recent massive price hike on supplies and labor?   you just can't compare costs now to costs then.  i think that would be obvious.  what was the typical costs of other stadiums in 2016?    there's more of an approach to this than you're considering.  

 

Yeah, that's all inflation.

 

Falcons opened their massive stadium with a mall apparently in it the following year (2017) for $1.5B.

 

15 minutes ago, Figster said:

 

 

 

Heres a few pictures of Tottenham Stadium which may have helped influence the Bills new stadium design.

  Amen to that...

 

 

Now THAT is a much sharper looking stadium.

 

The mini-roof appears to cover way more seats, and the seats are not blocky. I like the curved seat section in the endzone (or goal area).

Looking at the Tottenham stadium (thank you Figster) why didn't we do this? It was even designed by populous!

We would still have the snow/rain/weather games that people love, and fans get to stay dry. This blows what we see in our new renderings out of the water.

 

 

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

34 minutes ago, Figster said:

The point was big projects can have design errors

 

What do you know about Populous?

 

I fear the point went over his head. 

 

The #1 plane manufacturer in the world has watched as their planes fell out of the sky twice in the last several years due to a terrible engineering design of their MCAS system and lack of redundancy in the sensors. 

 

To say that a big firm can't make mistakes if foolhardy. 

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

32 minutes ago, teef said:

we know no dome.  people have to just get over it.  

 

I don't think they will. You will be hearing about this for 30 years.

 

32 minutes ago, teef said:

you don't know the exact size of the scoreboard. 

 

Unless the renderings are purposefully misleading, we can see the size of the scoreboard relative to the stadium around it. It's very small compared to the new stadiums of the NFL. 

 

32 minutes ago, teef said:

you don't like the design, and that's personal which is fine.  you don't know the exact layout of seating sections

 

We can see how the layout of the seating sections in the renderings. We have an above view, sideline view, and endzone view. Not sure what other view we would need.

 

32 minutes ago, teef said:

you don't know exactly how the concourse look.  all of this and you're complaining how much it costs.  with no idea of what's going in, cost of materials, cost of labor, etc, and you're complaining about the cost.

 

All these things are NORMAL for stadium's. There is nothing unique about this stadium that will raise costs over a typical NFL stadium. There isn't going to be a surprise section made out of gold raising the cost. Therefore, we can compare this stadium to other NFL stadiums that were built for similar amounts. 

 

US Bank Stadium (Vikings palace of a stadium) was built for $1.1B in 2016.

 

Including inflation (using an inflation calculator), that stadium would be $1.3B in 2023. 

 

The Vikings domed, beautiful, stadium cost less than we what we are spending for this bedpan stadium.

 

 

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

15 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Questions I'm sure none of the architects have even considered yet.

 

Being in the business world as long as I have, I can say unequivocally that you would be SHOCKED at the glaring issues that don't get considered until very late in a project, or NOT AT ALL.

 

A few examples:

 

1) When they designed the kingdome, they didn't take into consideration Seattle's near-constant rainfall. After a decade, the roof became so waterlogged that it began to disintegrate.

2) The teflon roof on the Metrodome that when the sun was shining and the lights were on inside, would create a eye-blinding glare at times. Oh and it couldn't withstand Minnesota snow.

3) The roof on Olympic stadium that ripped every time (seemingly) they opened it.

4) The Cowboys stadium that has punts hitting the scoreboard ever year.

 

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

14 minutes ago, teef said:

  just because the esthetic isn't what some wanted, there's immediate crying.  

 

If others are “whiny men” for not liking what nearly $1B of taxpayer money is getting us, what does it make you for crying about others crying? A super whiny man!?

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

11 minutes ago, teef said:

so...you're trying to do some sort of a cost analysis without actually knowing a thing about what's going into the stadium and specific specs?  

 

The same things that go into every stadium, you mean? We just saw Minnesota build the taj mahal with the same budget a few years ago.

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Yesterday I mentioned the yet to be revealed Concourse areas, and after looking at the renderings close up it’s clear that a good portion of them are indeed NOT enclosed (heated/cooled). If you look through the openings in the grandstand areas you can clearly see the exterior glass skin of the stadium itself. So…while they’ll surely be wider, they aren’t going to be truly out of the elements…which to me will be rather disappointing. 

 

So far we know:

 

- The stadium resembles a bedpan

- The wider concourses won’t be shielded from the elements

- There is no real discernible standout features to the stadium

- The roof overhang doesn’t appear to cover much

- Radiant heating will only be in the VIP areas 

- The scoreboards appear oddly small (like one of those weird widescreen monitors)

- The entrances look like you’re going into a department store

- The sections are very blocky and jagged. There is probably a good reason for this (crowd control?) but it looks ugly.

 

I am so bummed that this is all they can do with $1.4B

 

.

[Leslie Frazier "taking a year off from coaching" per Bills PR]

I want to be excited about this, but I also know that it’s McD’s defense regardless. Nothing will change schematically.

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Kind of looks comfortable to sit on and read a news paper.

 

 

 

That's what my Carolina buddy told me!

 

He said it looks like a bedpan. I guess I can see it.

 

Maybe we can call it "the pan". We went from "the Ralph" to "the Pan".

 

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

3 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

I have often wondered what gave the state the right to the 400M from the indian casinos ?

 

Its their land, their casinos and should be their money.

 

I'm surprised NYS was able to take it.

 

It was an agreement between Seneca tribes and NYS.

Seneca got exclusive rights to casino in Buffalo and surrounding areas, and in return they would pay NYS 25% of slot money.

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

 

What has me somewhat amazed is that the renderings released address VERY FEW of those fan related design factors. I’m reserving judgement until we’re shown much, much more. 

 

Speaking of, why haven't we been shown more?

 

Other stadiums being built had full video walkthroughs and virtual 3D experiences by this point. Titans, for example, who got funding after we did.

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

44 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

"Axthally" it is not surprising you dislike something about the Bills.

They remind you of the nuns who used to hit your fingers with their rulers when you misspelled. 

I bet you thought that sounded way cooler in your head before you hit post. 

 

Internet bullying is lame.

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

A buddy of mine who is a panthers fan just saw the rendering and said it looks like a bedpan lol.

I think he means from above, considering the curvature.

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

19 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

 

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2022/10/27/buffalo-bills-new-stadium-renderings-released-take-a-look/69595800007/

 

 

“Overhead heating. Some parts of the stadium – including certain club- and suite-seating areas – will have radiant overhead heating.”

 

It’s just the VIP areas.

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

40 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I was with you until the part about taxpayers kicking in $1B............$800K of that is diverted from casino tax that was won in court.    Not that rich casino owners aren't taxpayers but the taxpayers you mean already spent that money on entertainment.

Not sure where you saw $800M. It’s actually about half of that. The rest is paid by taxpayers and really it’s all paid by taxpayers because the $400m of casino money was going to go toward other state programs which are now being funded by taxpayers instead. Either way, taxpayers are footing the entirety of the nearly $1B. It’s really just a marketing ploy to make it seem like less.

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

30 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

I get it. Buffalo isn't a major city and is a small market. They don't need anything fancy or over the top. It just needs to be good enough and to not price out the market. 

 

Titans averaged 68,615 attendance per game in 2022

Bills averaged 68,431 attendance per game in 2022.

 

So for that much bigger fancy city, they only got a minuscule higher number of attendees.

 

Thats why they get the nicer stadium? I don’t get it.

I guess it’s all about conventions. The 4 or 5 per year.

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Are you too prissy to be outside? Does the weather bother you too? 

 

You do not get more stadium than you need unless you have other ways to use it. The Nashville stadium is fine, but that city is a world class attraction. I get it.  The places with older stadiums don’t need any more than they have. They’re fine. 

 

This is a ridiculous conversation. We know almost NOTHING about the new stadium, yet some people just have to complain. Have a nice life, it must be tough. 

 

I’d rather have a dome but the outside stadium doesn’t bother me. I never mentioned that at all. I said it looks boring, unappealing and there is nothing distinctive. None of that has to do with a dome.

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

There are only a few over the top mega-stadiums

 

Every single new stadium (except ours).

 

1 minute ago, Augie said:

and they are all in huge markets.

 

But those huge markets gave LESS public funds. So what’s the difference? Their owner is more generous? 

 

1 minute ago, Augie said:

Go to Pittsburgh or Green Bay or Cincinnati or Cleveland or Baltimore or Jacksonville or KC or Tampa or Nashville (currently). Most places are just “fine”. A few are over the top. Nothing wrong with a fine stadium. Just WIN! 

 

KC - 51 years old stadium

Pittsburgh - 22 year old stadium

Green Bay - 66 year old stadium 

Cleveland - 24 year old stadium 

Tampa - 25 year old stadium

Jacksonville - 28 year old stadium

Baltimore - 25 year old stadium

 

You kinda made my point. Our new $1.4B stadium is most closely compared to 20-60 year old stadiums. That’s a tough investment.

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

5 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said:

One thing that was noted, is that the game experience in the stadium is going to be much better. Radiant heating, like the club seats have will also be throughout the stadiums. 

 

I wish that were true, but I read that radiant heating will still only be in the VIP areas.

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

 

36 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

It should be paid for in PSLs. 

 

That would be great but I think I read the PSL’s are already earmarked to pay for the NFL loan and Pegula’s portion.

 

When all is said and done, Pegula will likely pay for about 10%~ of the stadium.

 

The crazy part is that some of problems with the stadium could be fixed without spending much extra money. Reallocate funds. It is SO generic.

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

36 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Well then kick in and pay for the upgrade! It’s that simple.

 

I’m already paying my part of the close to billion dollars NYS & Erie County gave them.

 

I will then pay even more via PSL which will go toward the NFL money they got for the stadium.

 

Pegula is paying very little of this project.

 

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

4 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

Agree, it looks very much like a generic European generic soccer stadium. I think that’s why it hasn’t grown on me. I know we aren’t getting a dome, or an insanely priced palace, but I can’t get over the Euro soccer ambiance. 

 

Yep.

 

And are these fans entering a football stadium…. or Macy’s?

 

What is with these entrances?

 

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

This is a legit question and not at all snarky: How can you tell anything from those renderings, and what exactly do you want? What needs to be improved, in your opinion, based on those few sketches? 

 

Those exterior renderings tell me next to nothing. I can’t even have an opinion without more knowledge. 

 

EDIT: Other than a dome, if that is your thing. Ain’t gonna happen. 

 

.

 

It’s of course just personal opinion but here are a few of the newest NFL stadiums:

 

 

 

 

 

And then here is the Bills new stadium:

 

 

It looks generic. Boring. Unappealing. Nothing screams “Buffalo” to me. There are no unique features that stand out and make people instantly say “oh that’s the Bills stadium”. Looking from the outside I can’t tell if it’s an airport, a soccer stadium, or a place to watch football.

 

And it looks like it’s old already. More like an early 2000’s stadium. If you were visiting a city you’ve never been and they told you this stadium was built in 2002, would you even question it? Probably not. It looks like a generic 2002 stadium. Like someone out of Madden build-a-stadium.

 

In fact it kinda-sorta looks like a more shapely Metlife stadium, which was built a decade and a half ago and is universally panned by Jets & Giants fans.

 

 

With taxpayers contributing nearly $1B, I am bothered by getting a generic, boring, unappealing stadium.

 

[Stadium Renderings Part 2]

1 hour ago, Kiva said:

You’re right. Small market team in a broke city. Why can’t people of Buffalo have nice things? Instead of settling ,  just move them to a better location. 

 

Or the billionaire owner could contribute a bit more.

 

I don’t like Kroenke all that much but I give him credit for writing a $5B check for his stadium.

 

Edit: Robert Kraft too

[How bad were the Bills receivers this year? Hint really really bad]

9 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Hence Chad Hall's exit stage right

 

This team sure loves to scapegoat coaches.

It's funny how its never the HC or Assistant HC's fault.