Milanos Milano
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Posts posted by Milanos Milano
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8 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:
Now we’re talking about practice?!
You specifically referred to how he “played in the Senior Bowl, and still separated enough against high end talent.”
Now I’m supposed to believe that separation against DBs in PRACTICE carries more weight than in-game performances against Georgia, LSU and Tennessee?
Iosivas practiced against the same type of talent that is found in the SEC at the Senior Bowl. Just because he had limited snaps in the senior bowl, doesn’t mean he wasn’t capable to separating against SEC talent in games. That’s what the practices are for, to determine if someone can compete against that kind of talent.
We will never know what Iosivas production would have been like if he was playing on Florida instead of Shorter.
It’s basically why things like the Senior Bowl and Shrine games exist, to test these theoretical matchups the best they can.
All I know is that Shorter played on a team with a 1st round QB and still had garbage stats. That’s not a ringing endorsement.
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Shorter was also 0 Rec 0 yards in the Shrine Bowl, so yeah.
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Just now, JGMcD2 said:
Ah yes, his wonderful Senior Bowl performance. 1 carry for -1 yards and 0 catches for 0 yards.
It’s more than just the game. It’s the practices as well. 1A players are almost almost going to get the nod over 1B players.
You don’t even know how many snaps he was on the field for, or his matchups while he was on the field.
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3 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:
Of course we are .. players get injured you don’t not draft someone just because they missed the combine. That would be weak scouting. The combine is a piece of the puzzle not the whole picture.
other pieces include:
Per Cbssports
“Good-hands man. Terrific at snaring passes away from his body with his big mitts. Just two drops over 93 targets in 2022 with zero drops in 2021 (45 targets).”
Kincaid was either first or second among 53 FBS-level TEs with at least 40 targets in targets, catches (first with 70), yards, yards per game (first with 74.2), yards per route run, and touchdowns. He was third-best in the nation in tackles avoided (16).
50% contested catch rate in 2022 according to PFF.
Also had a 50% catch rate on 10 targets inside the 10-yard line with each of his five catches going for a touchdown.
Had a 48% catch rate on 25 targets that traveled 11 or more Air Yards.
I never said to not draft him at all, but drafting someone in the 1st that didn’t participate at the combine due to an injury is fairly risky. Even Gronkowski participated in the combine despite his back problems.
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3 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:
If Andrei Iosivas has never separated against SEC secondaries, what makes you think he will be able to separate enough against NFL secondaries? It’s not like the man played in another Power 5 conference.
I know, I know… Stetson, Lehigh, Columbia, Lafayette, Brown, Harvard, Cornell, Dartmouth, Yale and Penn are likely a tougher defensive opponent than teams that Shorter played this year like #33 defense Tennessee (7/155), #1 defense Georgia (3/66) and #17 defense LSU (3/71/1).
We will never know because Iosivas never had a chance to play against a SEC team. What we do know is he played in the Senior bowl practices, and still separated enough against high end talent to get him drafted this year to a very good Cincinnati team.
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2 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:
He was injured and couldn’t participate at the combine. Why would he say he runs 4.5 when asked at his post draft presser. What benefit does he have in deceiving .. he was already picked.
So he was injured and couldn’t participate at the combine, but we are willing to take a player in the 1st round that was hurt enough to not participate?
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Just now, JGMcD2 said:
I thought he was an All-Pro QB?
Well what I mean is he was taken in the 1st round, so clearly someone thinks he has all pro potential. So if Shorter can’t separate enough against SEC secondaries with a 1st round talent QB, what makes you think he will be able to separate enough against NFL secondaries with an elite QB?
Just now, CorkScrewHill said:In his presser (after the draft so no need to spin) Kincaid stated he runs a 4.5
Well he never went to the combine to prove that did he? People that skip the combine don’t get the benefit of the doubt.
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Just now, HappyDays said:
Thank you for your scouting reports.
LOL I’m just simply posting 40 times. If there is one thing I’ve learned over the years, is that there really isn’t much of a difference between talented players with respect to their peers. Most talented players separate against secondaries along the same rates and space, the differences boil down to their respective QBs and coaching schemes.
There really isn’t much of a difference between Mayer and Kincaid receiving wise, no matter what the scouts say.
I will say that Kincaid struggled against a non ranked Florida, which is concerning.
The fact that Shorter played with a 1st round QB and still couldn’t put up solid production is concerning.
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5 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:
And then simultaneously you’re in other threads advocating for the WR from Princeton, who played football powerhouses like Cornell over Justin Shorter who played in the SEC.
Which one is it?
It’s a combination of pure talent evaluation and production. Iosivas was separating on film more than Shorter was. Shorter also was playing with an all pro QB selected in the 1st round, and still couldn’t separate enough for his all pro QB to find him. That’s extremely concerning.
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3 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:
No one wanted your guy in the first round. If Buffalo didn’t take him either Dallas or Cincy was going to take Kincaid and God help the AFC if Joe Burrow would have been throwing to this guy he made Hayden Hurst look like an all pro against the Bills
Hayden Hurst runs a 4.68 , is 6’4” 250lbs. Selected 1st round 25th overall. Put up 600 yards in the SEC, which is better than doing it in the Pac12. There really isn’t much of a difference between Hurst and Kincaid.
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4 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:
I can see this at the time Addison was looking like the best slot receiver in the Draft prospect and scouts where zeroing in on receiver help.
Kincaid just was a man among boys out there.
All I can say is thank God he didn’t perform at his pro day or NFL combine or with how goofy they are. He’d be a Lion at 12 instead of Gibbs as Hockensons replacement now.LOL it’s good he didn’t perform at the NFL combine or he’d be lucky to go in the first round. He likely would have struggled against the sled and bench press.
Right now scouts are basically living off the USC game, which is way to emotional.
At this point Kincaid is strictly a 4.7 big slot receiver which I dunno how well that is going to translate against NFL talent. Kincaid struggled against Florida to get separation.
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Kelce ran a 4.6 , Gronkowski ran a 4.7 . Kelce is 6’5 250lbs and Gronkowski was 6’6” 265lbs. Just for some context.
Dawson Knox 6’4” 254lbs.
Kincaid 4.7 6’4” 240lbs
Mayer 4.7 6’4” 265lbs
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Dawson Knox also ran a 4.59 at the combine, so eventhough his stats were marginal in college and he played a way different role for his team, the potential was obviously there. So I know stats don’t tell the whole story, but Knox is a bit of a misnomer because of his teams poor utilization of his talents.
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7 minutes ago, PBF81 said:
I know you do. Do you mind my asking however, what do you base that on, beside the script draft profiles, which are all essentially the same? Or is that it?
Fun fact looking at the Mayer vs Kincaid things. Mayer often time had a higher % of the rec pie vs the rest of the WRs on their team than Kincaid, AND with ND running the ball more often.
That tells me Mayer would have had even better results vs Kincaid had his OC game planned differently. Mayer was often featured more often, because he was clearly the best receiving threat on the team, whereas Kincaid wasn’t featured as much despite being touted as the better WR option.
Mind you, they both run a 4.7
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2 minutes ago, Chaos said:
Both are good, and they will be comped against each other in the future. I think Kindcaid's more WR similarities makes him a better fit for the Bills than Mayer though.
I do not know why people keep saying this. They both have similar yardage and TDs numbers. The major difference is Mayer can block really well. They both run a 4.7 , so it’s not like he can’t get down the field as good as Kincaid.
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1 minute ago, DCofNC said:
The giant red flags for him are 1) lack of experience. 2) Lower level competition 3) inconsistent performances. I think he’s a bit of a project, the opposite of Knox who had barely my receptions, this guy is basically a large slot WR who will need to learn to block.
When I scout, I want to see consistency, I want to see how well they do against top ranked teams and SEC schools. I want to see how they do against players that are getting drafted or projected to get drafted in the coming years. I also want to see the % of targets they are commanding per game and how talented their QB/WR/RBs are relative to their respective peers. Obviously watching how one separates is important, if they are getting consistently open, but are having low targets, that’s a QB problem. Honestly it would be really nice if someone developed an algorithm to determine how much exact space they were generating per route ran vs opponent strength.
3 minutes ago, Chaos said:Good question Another one is, "did the defense focus on shutting him down and take him away, allowing the Utah team to compete and almost beat a gold standard SEC team?"
I would have to go back and watch the entirety of the game, I didn’t particularly watch that game. I’m not a real scout that gets paid, I can’t dedicate every single second of my time to doing major analytical projects. Although I feel I would pretty good at it if I was awarded an opportunity for such time dedication.
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14 minutes ago, Chaos said:
I think you need to actually watch the games to know why he was not being targeted. I actually am typically interested in who teams turn too when they are losing in the second half. If a team is winning and running the ball, no particular reason to be passing to anyone.
Let me start a better statistical breakdown, and maybe I will make a thread about it. But let’s just take one example. Utah played Florida (at the time a non ranked SEC school), they lost 29-26, he had only 2 receptions for 29 yards. He had 2 receptions of of 22 thrown for approx 10% of the throws. His team ran 39 times. 3 other receivers on the team had more receptions than he did. I’m using SEC as the gold standard for now.
Was he getting open and his QB couldn’t find him, or was he struggling against SEC level talent and just couldn’t get targeted because he wasn’t open?
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Kincaid had only 5 games with 5+ rec. Where Mayer had 8 games with 5+ rec.
Kincaids 5 games came against
SUU, USC, WSU, Oregon, and Colorado
Mayers 8 games came against
USC, BC, UNLV, Stanford, BYU, UNC, Marshall, Ohio State -
13 minutes ago, 947 said:
You don't think they went back and watched every snap of the players they put on the short list?
Maybe the USC tape did initially put Kincaid & Dorian Williams on their radar, but I have no doubt they did a ton more work before grading them.
Maybe they did, I’m not exactly sure how much time analysis they dedicate to each and every prospect they filter. Obviously they can’t go to every game or watch every single snap of every single prospect they put grades on.
There are quite a few non productive games that Kincaid had against okish teams that are a little concerning. You usually want to see a 1st round talent have fairly consistent games. Mayer had more 60yrd+ games then Kincaid, against slightly better teams. There were many times Kincaid wasn’t even top 2 on the team in receiving games, where Mayer had more, etc. -
If this is true, then it’s pretty sad if pro scouts get sucked into individual games. When you talent evaluate, you have to take way more into consideration than just great performances at random times. That’s to emotional for analytical accuracy.
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1 minute ago, Einstein said:
… on the practice squad.
Just hopefully nobody traps our beaver
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1 minute ago, Taro Nimbus said:
Jags signed Samuel Jackson
L?
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Given McDermotts propensity for bringing in quality CBs, I have at least some hope for the 7th rounder.
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First 2 picks were good. Outside of that left a lot to be desired. C+
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UDFA signings 2023
in The Stadium Wall
Posted · Edited by IronMaidenBills
Jalen Wayne actually had a good senior bowl, good chance he can make our PS.