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newcam2012

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    Tyreek Hill apparently arrested this morning…

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted · Edited by newcam2012

    5 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

     

    True, and to take it a step further...

     

    None of this happens if one cares enough about others and their community to NOT drive 60+mph through neighborhoods.

    Let's take it a step further.

     

    No one goes hungry if you feed them.

     

    No one is homeless if you give them shelter. 

     

    See where I'm going with this? 

     

     

    Week 2 - Bills at Dolphins - Game Week Thread

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

     

    We don't overwhelmingly get off to slow starts.  

     

    How does that mean being outcoached or out game planned?  So lets just make up the Bills starting overwhelmingly slow.  Since we usually end up winning the game, does that not have to do with coaching?  Doesn't that indicate that we can make in game adjustments and out game plan the other team the rest of the game?

    It can definitely mean that. It can also mean the Bills roster was rock solid the last few years. Led by Allen and Diggs. 

     

    I definitely over stated my position. Overwhelming slow start was a poor choice of words. 

    59 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

     

    I think it's you.  Where are you getting this data that shows the Bills are "slow starters".

    Gunner, broke down the stats very well. Refer to his detailed post. 

    Week 2 - Bills at Dolphins - Game Week Thread

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

    Remember the key here is not to overreact on defense. I expect Miami to come out with a good script and have some success offensively early on. The key is the Bills just settling in, playing their defense and capitalising when the Fins make mistakes and Tua puts the ball in harms way - as he will at some point. If you start getting funky in response and getting away from your plan that's when they kill you. Settle in, trust your scheme, execute and take your opportunities. 

     

    On offense got to pickup the Miami blitzes well up front, know where our hots are and get the ball out early. Not a day for Josh to hold the ball. 

    By time they settle in they could be down 14 points. The Dolphins aren't the Cardinals. Is it me or do the Bills overwhelmingly get off to slow starts. I think it's vastly due to being out coached and out game planned. Don't you? 

    3 hours ago, finn said:

    Still, I worry about slants, with Tua throwing instantly, so no pass rush, and Hill and their other speedsters catching the ball at full speed. How do you defend against that? Our corners don't jam, do they? 

    We've defended it well in the past. I think McD knows how to contain, limit, and beat Miami. The real question is can the newer younger players step up and execute the defensive game plan. There will be some new wrinkles too. Can they adjust properly. 

     

    I think the Bills will be fine on offense so long as they take care of the ball. 

    Week 2 - Bills at Dolphins - Game Week Thread

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted · Edited by newcam2012

    Really good test and measuring stick for both teams early in the season. 

     

    This game can go in so many directions. I'm having a difficult time coming up with a solid game script. As a result, I'm unable to give a synopsis with confidence. 

     

    The Bills have Allen and a mix match of offensive weapons who can have a big game. McD always seems to have solid game plans vs Miami. Hill and Waddle are darn right dangerous. 

     

    I don't see a blowout here. Both team know each other well. Teams are pretty evenly matched, and they've played each other close in several games. 

     

    Bills 24

    Miami 23

    • Like (+1) 1

    Tyreek Hill apparently arrested this morning…

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted · Edited by newcam2012

    6 hours ago, cgang said:

    Didnt like Hill refusing to lower his tinted window.  But after the unknown safety threat was rectified when they got him out of the car, didn’t like that they forced him down, in handcuffs, for a speeding violation, and then handcuffed his teammate. That seemed way over the top.  I don’t see how any of that was justified. 

    I agree but strictly from a legal standpoint the officers acted within the parameters of law. With the exception of the police officer grabbing Hill by the neck and forcing him to sit down. That was excessive use of force since he was cuffed, posed no threat, was restrained by fellow officer, and appeared to be slowly starting to comply and sit down. The neck grab was excessive. 

     

    The officers arrested Hill by forceably removing him from the vehicle and hand cuffing him. Folks, that's not a detainment. It meets all the criteria for an arrest. It's pretty much a slam dunk 

     

    The police had the legal right to remove Hill. They gave him a lawful order and he did not comply. Thus, the use of force was necessary. The amount of force used to subdue and cuff Hill was justified and not excessive. He could have been easily charged with obstructing justice or something similar to that charge. 

     

    When cooler heads prevailed the authorities reviewed the incident and chose not to charge Hill criminally. Lots of theories as to why that happened. Who knows? No way in hell would a district attorney pursue criminal charges on Hill. They would be laughed right out of their position. 

     

    This incident was a complete ***** show by all parties involved. Poor police behavior, actions, and judgement even if it falls with the law. Both can be true. Poor behavior, actions, and judgement from Hill. 

     

    In the end, law enforcement officers are always held to a higher standard. Every LEO knows this and it comes with the territory. Folks, what we saw wasn't a high standard. It was borderline embarrassing. It's bad policing when a police officer allows a suspect to get them angry and that anger leads too bad decisions. I believe that's what happened here. It's bad policing when the police officers escalate rather than deescalate the situation. I believe that's what happened here. Their behavior, actions, and lack of judgement are the exact kinds of behaviors that leads to serious injuries to suspects and police officers. Thankfully, no one was hurt. 

     

    It's not a good look for the Miami PD. 

    Tyreek Hill apparently arrested this morning…

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    23 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

     

    Good post as well, and I also mostly agree with this and appreciate the perspective.  But, the only thing I would add is that I did not personally feel the cop was really out of line with how he approached the car or knocked on the window.  I don't really know how the officer could have done anything different in that regard, he walked up to a car with dark tinted windows and driver had yet to roll his window down.  What other recourse does an officer have other than to knock on his window.

     

    Then Hill rolls it down partially and just starts mouthing off not to knock on his window.  And if Hill doesn't want him to knock on his window, he should have already rolled his window down after being pulled over and seeing the officer approach.  

     

    I am all about deescalation, so I don't disagree with you in them needing to be trained in how to be better about that, its a serious issue in our police force in general.  

     

    At the same time, cops need to make split decisions out there where the wrong one can mean they may not go home to see their families.  And I think there does need to be more respect for that from people when dealing with officers.  So it is hard for me to have sympathy for a entitled rich boy acting a fool, not complying and putting himself into a position to where he is making an officer have to make a decision to keep letting this go and risk the safety of themselves and fellow officers or having to escalate the situation to take back control of the that situation to insure their safety.

     

    So for me, while I do agree there were maybe less escalated options the officer could have taken, I also can not really fault him for the decision he did make given the position Hill put him either.  Now if he had roughed Hill up or something, sure year that would be a real issue.  But forcing Hill to comply when he refused, that for me is on Hill more than anything.  The officer gave Hill plenty of time and multiple chances to avoid the escalation, Hill instead chose to remain defiant.  

     

    Hahaha, don't apologize, that was funny 

    Not much for me to quibble about. Nice response. 

    9 minutes ago, julian said:

    How about just act like a decent human being, don’t speed and endanger the public, if you are pulled over for endangering the public then comply with instructions, take your deserved ticket and be on your way without incident like the vast majority of us do everyday.

     

     I knew exactly what I was going to see on the released body cam footage before I even watched it, an idiot needlessly escalating a police interaction instead just taking his ticket.

    But you are thinking like a rational law abiding citizen. Thugs, criminals, pieces of poop, etc ...don't think like that. 

    • Like (+1) 3
    • Agree 2
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    Tyreek Hill apparently arrested this morning…

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted · Edited by newcam2012

    2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

    Being fair to the cops here, their lives are on the line just going to work every day, and cops are quite vulnerable in the line of duty during traffic stops.  They can't see peoples hands, if they are concealing anything illegal or a weapon, are out of their vehicle while they are still in theirs, etc.  

     

    So to be defiant and refuse to comply and to do it behind a dark tinted window puts an officer in a vulnerable and dangerous position in general.  So while I think police brutality, excessive use of force, bias against minorities, etc are all real problems that exist, this particular incident feels more on Hill than anyone.

     

    I have a hard time blaming to the officer who was put in a position by Hill to have to take back control of an unknown situation that puts his and the other officers lives in jeopardy.  And all they did was secure him on the ground after Hill himself put their security at risk, it's not like they roughed him up.  

    I mostly agree with this. However, what I think you might be overlooking of the cops attitude and verbal interactions with Hill.

     

    If I may digress. For the most part, believe officers take charge, act assertively and or aggressively, give orders and commands,communicate in very stern tone of voice, and are dominant in nature. Most often it serves a purpose and promotes officer safety. 

     

    IMHO, the opposite of the above is under taught and under trained. To be humble, to listen,  to acknowledge a person's feelings, etc...  Often one sees this as a sign of weakness. Nothing is further from the truth. As one of my training officers once taught me. There is always more than one way to skin a cat. That saying always resonates in my mind. Kill them with kindness sort of speak. Just doesn't happen enough in our law enforcement system. Of course, there's a time and place for everything. You're not going to tell a person pointing a gun at you to kindly put the gun on the ground. Nevertheless, you get the point i hope. 

     

    Fast forward to the Hill incident. The officer approaches Hill and hits his window. Was it too hard or too many times? Who knows and who cares. What is important is the perception of the suspect who happens to be Hill.  What if the officer said, I'm sorry that wasn't my intention. I can understand how you feel that way. It won't happen again? Sounds weak and corny but think about how that may have played out. Instead, the cop gets into verbal judo with Hill. Point being the officer missed the opportunity to fe escalate things immediately. Whether it would have been effective who knows. 

     

    Then Hill rolled up the window after the officer received his license and registration. At that point couldn't the officer just proceed to his patrol car? I say yes yes and more yes. I hear you are running late. I'll be as quick is possible because I know your time is valuable. Instead, he chose to engage in a pissng contest over the window. Legally, the officer is correct. Walking to his patrol car would have made the rolled up window no security threat. Instead the officer engaged, demanded, ordered, and acted. All was very preventable. 

     

    In short, the officers upped the tension, engaged in improper and unnecessary banter which led to an avoidable use of force situation. 

     

    Does that lessen what Hill did? No. Did Hill contribute to what happened? Yes yes and more yes. 

     

    Hope that helps give another perspective to others. 

     

     

    • Like (+1) 1

    Tyreek Hill apparently arrested this morning…

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    33 minutes ago, Savage said:

    You’re right, but wrong at the same time.

     

    if the subject doesn’t listen to the officers, the situation will go bad.

    at a certain point, the police can’t relent, and it becomes a war of wills, and it ends bad for everyone.

     

    if a police officer asks you for ID, or whatever, just comply.

     

    if you look for trouble, you will most definitely find it, and very quickly, and maybe very badly.

     

     

     

     

     

    Sorry, I'm not wrong with my post. 

     

    I don't disagree with the rest of what you said though. 

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