[4 Current Players already deserve to be on Bills All-time team!]

11 minutes ago, JY422 said:

well played Mike.  It's all fun and games anyway.  Happy Holidays to you too. 

Go Bills!

Honestly, I think I just got frustrated by how it was presented, because it is pretty damn interesting as long is everybody is looking at it the same way.   

[4 Current Players already deserve to be on Bills All-time team!]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

There's a lot of "I'm older than you so I know better" bias in these responses.

 

See my comments about Diggs...he's easily as good as WR as the Bills have EVER had...

 

If anything, modern players should receive a grading curve in their favor, b/c they play the game NOW, where everyone is a monster who can fly.

 

I always love the  names that come out of the woodwork from 1963...when OLmen were 250 pounds, some guys played both ways, and linebackers were, among other things, ridiculously slow by modern standards.

 

A garden variety player in todays' game would be a talent standout in the '50s or '60s.

 

In the NHL, the average player talent gap between now and even the '80s or '90s is HUGE.

 

I'd argue half the starting NHL goalies of the 1980s would not be AHL goalies now, let alone NHL starters.

 

But now I'm discussing hockey and not football.

 

Anyway, some of the old timers (i'm close to one myself) might want to re-evaluate how great those old players were.

 

Could they even play in today's game?
 

 

 

 

I think the OP missed on the way this should have been presented (I'm not dogging you OP it is a good question just confusing). Some are looking at it more like a single season, others are looking at it as far as a career and body of work, then others looking at it like pure talent.

 

As an example, I would I take 2020 Diggs against any season James Lofton had AS A BILL, but not any in his career nor for his career and body of work.

 

I also can't discount Andre Reed, Eric Mould's, or Elbert Dubenion  career body work as a Bill compared to Diggs. 

 

I also think you have to look at performance relative to pears, well, if that's how you choose to look at it. Obviously any modern athlete is superior, is that how we want to look at this? I really don't know if that's a fair look. That said if this is a Bills list, I feel the standard should be both career and body of work as a Bill. At which point, nobody on our roster could be eligible yet. Some are inching closer. So the question would become who likely can it be? Which really becomes interesting because it's impacted by how good we have been at some positions historically as well as your future outlook of our roster. We are likely furthest away at RB and probably DE, just because Bruce was an all timer. He goes on every list, not just Bills lists. Then we have nobody close to OJ or Thurman.   

[4 Current Players already deserve to be on Bills All-time team!]

6 minutes ago, JY422 said:

 

Isn’t this a “Fan Forum” discussion board? New era of dumb? Dang bro… I’m a fan just like you who enjoys talking all things Bills both past and present. 
On second thought, I’m a much better fan than you. I’m not all greased up with bitterness like you apparently are. 
Here’s to health and happiness for you and yours and a little thanksgiving miracle called “kindness.”

 

Go Bills!

Oh calm down, I'm not greased up with bitterness, I'm calling a spade a spade. You're right, this is a fan forum. I thought your post was one of the most short sighted I read on the forum in a long time and I have been here awhile. Perhaps I could have stated it with more sensitivity. Happy Holidays. 

[4 Current Players already deserve to be on Bills All-time team!]

11 hours ago, FireChans said:

I know exactly who Kelly was.

Doesn't sound like you're over 35, just a guess. Kelly has as many Super Bowl appearances as Allen has seasons. He is in the HOF. Allen very well could end up being the best, but it isn't even a conversation at this time. If you tried to bring your case to trial the judge would get pissed off at you for wasting his time.

[4 Current Players already deserve to be on Bills All-time team!]

Wow, we have entered into a new era of dumb with this thread. 

[The Singletary Conundrum.]

5 hours ago, Utah John said:

He was better then.  Most RBs don't stay good for long.

Naaa, just doesn't fit your narrative. Further Zack Moss has a lower YPC by .1 and 1.1 yards vs Singletary in 2020 and 2021, over the period where we actually did start playing USFL ball. Please don't counter with red zone carries, it's not, already checked. Difference of 6 carries inside the 5 yard line both years combined. I would also find it unusual that Motor could get 35+ carries consistently at Florida Atlantic, then his rookie year average 5.1, then fatigue drops it to 5.0 this year? No pattern to your pattern. 

 

I'm not a prime club member of the the motor fan club. He has his issues, but what he is and isn't needs to be clear. He is elusive, agile, and fast in short areas. He is not somebody who can survive poor line play. He breaks very few tackles and is not a viable HR threat. Our line since he has been here has been elite bat at run blocking. Only an elite back would make a difference with elite bad run blocking line and most people on here aren't willing to spend the jack for an elite back. All things considered, if it was pick one, I would rather the money go to the line. It's more likely we correct that then land one of 3-5 guys in the NFL.    

[Never seen Josh under center so much]

33 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

This is what I've been calling out for last 2 years.  Running game and play action game more effective when he's under Center.

 

I know he sees field better in shotgun but he's more effective under Center.  There was a Stat last year that had his passed rating 20 points higher when under Center.  

 

Will also make his runs more effective too. 

When we drafted him I said playaction would be a strength. You could see it at Wyoming. It removes any timing or mechanics issues with Josh. He’s been devastating in playaction. 

[The Singletary Conundrum.]

55 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Singletary's yards per carry (5.0) is great but deceiving.  The other teams are shocked, shocked when the Bills run the ball.  Their defenses are geared toward rushing the QB and stopping the deep passes, not preventing a RB from getting 5 yards.  

This explains him at 5.1 his rookie year in 2019, when we weren't a modern version of the USFL?

[What is the record for most red zone attempts without an int?]

25 minutes ago, DrPJax said:

He has thrown some that should have been picked.  I think the main reason is defensive guys with power hands probably are not used to the velocity he throws with. Even Bills receivers had to adjust to that!  So high  velocity , ball-gets in you quickly in tight windows so harder to catch it and it’s an area he is less likely to get blindsided and just throw the ball up.  Also shorter , quicker hitting routes so ball in the air less time for bad things to happen.  Still think main thing is his velocity. 

Outside of the good decision making, this is it. Josh gets a lot of dropped INT's and I'm starting to think luck has little to do with it. 

[I hate to say it … but the Pats are coming]

Last years squad was playing more consistent high end football than we have reached this year and it took a fantastic strip on the last Patriots drive to win the first game. The Patriots already had imploded by the second game. This years New England team is light years ahead of last years and for tangible reasons. They had the leagues largest COVID list last year and then got further depleted by injuries. No QB, no real identity. This year is much different. 

 

They have played some of the best teams in the NFL to a coin flip and are just one game back. Yes, they're a threat. We aren't good enough to be this cocky yet.   

[Jon Gruden suing the NFL, Roger Goodell]

Pretty sure the rest of the 650,000 emails contain some incriminating statements involving owners in the NFL. What a blunder by Goodell. Regardless of what Chucky said or did, it's pretty obvious the NFL is hiding something. I don't imagine Chuck is going for money, he's going for the jugular. No closed door settlement coming. Have fun Roger. 

[Bills Lax Mindset and Arrogance is more of a problem than anything else this year]

Not so much arrogant team, more like growing team not ready to take everybody's best shot yet. If you watched the press conference Meyer had, I would have felt embarrassed to be getting asked the questions he was. All of it was about how good we were, how long Jacksonville has to go, if they plan on mirroring the process we followed. It was if the score was already decided. These teams are all giving us 100% each week and we are not consistent enough yet to deal with it. No longer the hunter, now the hunted. Big difference.   

[Really Pittsburgh??? Gtfo]

12 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

They didn't.  It's a partnership with Reid.

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/bills-mafia-and-the-bills-organization-create-a-new-partnership

Thanks! I wonder why I was under that impression. 

[Really Pittsburgh??? Gtfo]

40 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

That’s a direct ripoff and just straight up lazy.  I believe that Del Reid sold the trademark to the Bills.  How funny would it be to see the Bills send the Steelers fan club a cease and desist letter 😃 

Locals and people on this forum would know better than me, but I'm pretty sure the Bills just stole it from Reid and slapped the trademark on it. Sounded shady from the article I read, but again somebody on here can correct me if I'm not accurate. 

[After watching the yardsperpass videos...Josh owns these issues toos...]

8 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Bills are 10th in the NFL for rushing yards per game and 7th in the NFL for YPC.

 

I don't think the problem is that we "can't run the ball."  I think it's more that we "don't run the ball at the right times."

 

Josh Allen accounts for the third largest % of a teams rushing yards for a QB, only behind Lamar and Jalen Hurts. Output isn't the issue, it's we have no output with our RB's. Which is the entire part of the run game that allows for things like playaction or slowing down the pass rush or staying on schedule.  

[Daboll, modern day Run and Shoot?]

The run and shoot offense had it's proponents and many people who associated with it were looked at as offensive visionaries. It produced some gaudy numbers and legendary players. Certainly plenty of teams that ran it had success and at times were even lethal. Having said that, it never brought a Super Bowl or NCAA championship to a football team. It's dependency on the pass made it too inconsistent in handling all of the situations that occur over the course of a season. 

 

While this is a pass happy league, I feel as if Daboll and his offense is very similar to the run and shoot. Not as far as schematics, but as far as versatility and results. It can be very good, at times even lethal, but it lacks any attempt at consistency in the conventional running game.

 

It's one thing to abandon the run when you trail late or big. It's another to abandon it in a very tight defensive game when your passing offense is also failing. This is not like a normal run and shoot with an extremely efficient passing game, it is a big play passing team heavily dependent on Allen to break containment and stretch plays. It is completely one dimensional in regards to RB usage. We simply do not use them and it's incorrect to just sum up the reason as "well, the run game stinks".  You don't just run the ball for the purpose of gaining yards. You do so in order to slow down teams pass rush and generate play action. To help your offensive line. It's one thing to be unsure the pass is coming, another to think it's not, and another to know it is.

 

We are putting teams in a position where they know and it's with an offensive strategy largely dependent on QB improvisation across huge amounts of passing attempts. Once in awhile after a game like this Daboll will real it back in. Give the RB's 20 rushes, but his character is that of an addict with passing the center of his addiction. He can make it a week or two but relapse is inevitable. He has shown no ability to consistently acknowledge that balance in the game of football matters. History is not on his side with such an attitude.      

[NFL Officiating is an abomination for a 18B product]

I love college football and watch it more as a whole than I do NFL. I watch every Bills game, but I'll watch several college games. In my opinion the refs at the college level are better. I feel it's largely because they have less involvement in the game. 

[Lack of good running game…]

9 runs by running backs. Inexcusable, we already saw earlier this year what the team looks like when they abandon the run. The pass blocking just can't hold up and if you have enough pressure and enough reps eventually bad Josh will appear.  

[Per Schefter, Bills expressed some level of interest in signing Adrian Peterson]

49 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I think you might need a scientific calculator to quantify the number of times you'd have to punch Frank Gore in the head before he noticed.

I can see him looking like Joe Frazier in the ring.

Ya, no thank you on fighting Gore. You know that dude can take a punch. 

[[Edit -Released by Raiders] Henry Ruggs involved in a fatal car crash, "DUI resulting in death" charges expected]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

It’s essential now. No one drinks more than the British yet they have a drunk driving rate that is negligible compared to us.  Why? The penalties are severe. We’ve made strides in the USA, but it’s still not enough. 

It is a very odd crime when involving injury, it's like on one hand we acknowledge when it involves injury that the negligence reached such a substantial level that it deserves a charge in the family of murder. On the other, if it doesn't happen to involve injury, it's a fairly minor charge. It's almost treated like a fight. If you get in a fight, heck, even if somebody is hurt, probably little to nothing. If you kill the guy, even if it's not intentional (bangs head on concrete when he falls from a punch) then it usually goes into the murder family. In fights, we don't get to make as clear decisions in advance (my opinion). You still have time to make them, but it's not like driving intoxicated where you can plan your travel arrangements before you even leave. Even in the event of a surprise few drinks, you have plenty of time to reflect and make a decision even if you're somewhat impaired while doing so.       

[[Edit -Released by Raiders] Henry Ruggs involved in a fatal car crash, "DUI resulting in death" charges expected]

In all cases involving somebody who is deceased probably the number one factor in determining sentencing is intent. I doubt most drunk drivers have any intent to harm somebody, so in my mind that does make the person different than somebody who has intent to harm another. That said vehicular manslaughter is a very serious charge. Not murder one, but he's going away for awhile, certainly enough for his life to be all but destroyed. It's never worth it to risk this behavior. Not with Uber and all the options available today. Horrible decision, one I'm sure he has made dozens of times with no consequences until now.

 

If anything, I would be much more in favor of very strict penalties for drinking and driving. The way the crime is treated when it does or doesn't involve injury is essentially like playing Russian roulette. Any drunk driver could have just as easily had this become the outcome. Instead, for most, no outcome occurs or in the event of a DUI the penalty is not harsh enough. People don't think, "what if I get vehicular manslaughter tonight" they think, "I hope I don't get pulled over".  Until more severity is placed on making the decision at the start irresponsible people will roll the dice. 

[How do you deep down, really feel about this defense?]

It is an elite defense, Top 5. Somewhat assisted by the QB's we have faced, but I think defensive play against below average QB's is a sign of an elite defense. That is where they show the most in today's game. Elite defense in today's game is a defense that makes it very difficult to lose against average teams. Then one that can flash against above average teams and sometimes dominate a game. This is just what elite defenses looks like in todays NFL. An elite defense is still perfectly capable of laying an egg and does so much more frequently than ever before. Elite defenses will also still fall victim more often than not to elite offenses. It's just not the same game anymore. The last formidable defense that was consistent and dominant was probably the Legion of Boom and that was 7-10 years or so in the prime. We really haven't seen anything in the modern era close to that since. 

[Rex Ryan blasts the Jets coaching staff]

12 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

Now that Rex is no longer being paid by the Pegulas, he will likely look to get back into the league.

 

IF he were willing to accept a DC spot and put in the work he would be quite successful, IMO. 

 

If he wants to roll in at 9 and leave at 3 it won't go well. 

Lets just throw all that is Rex out the window and just look at it logically. Rex never adjusted the modern game. Buddy coached at a time when what you could do to a receiver would now likely land you in jail and stopping the run game was priority one. It's not like Rex mirrored the 46, but he learned from his father and pursued edge setting DL's that could defend the run. Large MLB's that could defend the run. Excessive zone blitzes. I actually think Rex is a a much smarter coach than most around here give him credit for. That said, all of it means nothing if he can adapt to todays NFL.   

[Rex Ryan blasts the Jets coaching staff]

It was ugly, but I have never seen a team lined up incorrectly and not be ready for the snap as often as the Rex Ryan led Bills. They couldn't even communicate the calls and that was just normal. 

[Taylor Heinicke TD Ruled No TD! Why?]

I don't know if you watched to full game, but the officiating was pretty bad. At one point they ruled Green Bay recovered a fumble when it was clear it was recovered by Washington. They got it right, but In my entire history of watching football I don't remember a time a fumble recovery was prematurely called. They always let them play and who has the ball in the end gets the ball. Green Bay never came close to controlling the ball and they ruled it that way before the play was over. Weird stuff.