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WideNine
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Posts posted by WideNine
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Dorsey does have to do a better job getting these guys ready.
Sloppy offensive execution week after week points to how he is prepping that unit and practices.
They need to be sharper.
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1 hour ago, Logic said:
Sometimes the coaches get outcoached.
Sometimes the players get outplayed.
We can spend all week looking for deeper meaning -- were the playcallers too slow to adjust? Were the receivers or the protection more to blame? Was it injuries? International body clock? -- but at the end of the day, the other guys get paid, too.
The Bills have a good offensive coordinator and a cast of offensive players that are highly productive most weeks. The coordinator was out-coordinated and the players played poorly. Blame it on whatever you want. It happens sometimes.
I'm not taking it as a season-long indictment on anyone or trying to overreact or paint the picture bigger and with more colors than it deserves. It was a bad week. The Bills got outplayed and outcoached and lost.
On to the Giants....and don't forget the crappy scheduling logistics that tilted the field in favor of the Jags rested and acclimated in the UK while our Bills were working off jet lag crossing the pond just days prior.
Pray for the best for our injured starters and put that game in the rear view where it belongs.
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23 hours ago, jlgarsh said:
Josh had a PFF grade of 91.5 and a QBR of 86.7 vs. the Jags. He was not the problem Sunday.
Folks keep forgetting that while the Jags defense was pitching some 3 and outs our defense could not get off the field and allowed a lot of conversions that moved the chains and produced long Jaguar drives.
There were reasons for that too starting with losing so many defensive starters so quickly in the game.-
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15 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:
Go look at the stats. The Bills have one of the elite passing offenses in the league.
One game played with jet lag and we suck at everything right?
Fickle fans that blow with the wind each week. TEs are never downfield... Knox runs plenty of deeper routes, so our OC does know how to scheme those up. Fans complain that Allen can't take what defenses are giving up underneath, when he does they complain that the OC cannot scheme deep routes.
Did they play sloppy and fail to execute, yes.
Did our defense struggle to get off the field and gave up too many 3rd down conversions, yes.
One game does not define this offense that has been putting up decent numbers.
The Jags defense matches up well with us even when they are not given the advantage of a few weeks to acclimate to another time zone while our guys barely had time to unpack.
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6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:
Yes, Josh is at fault sometimes, receiver is at fault sometimes, the route design is also at fault sometimes. There is no singular blame.
I blame Goodell for using our Bills as an a scheduling experiment.
Hard to believe he was born in Jamestown. Heck, I rode my bike there as a kid.
No home town help coming from that guy.
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5 hours ago, HoofHearted said:
Here’s the disconnect - play action opens up the middle of the field by pulling defenders into the box. Because of this they are now responsible for an immediate gap in the run game and thus have to play run first. This is why play action is successful because it can pull backers and box safeties toward the LoS. It has zero effect on corners eyes or, in the case of what we saw from Jacksonville, MOF Closed Safeties. They’re working their pass keys regardless of the action. Because they were in MOF Closed coverage the majority of the day there wasn’t anything to take advantage of in the middle of the field by using play action which is why every time we ran it except one the pass went outside where, like I said, the corners are just playing coverage as normal based on their key read.
Hope that clears it up for you.
I can live with that and especially DBs having their responsibilities, were they rolling safety help over the top or playing quarters.
I don't have All 22 so going off memory. I thought I saw a few single high looks with the SS in the box.
Allen stays on schedule more and completes more passes from under center, not sure if anyone knows why - perhaps less to do with defensive reactions and more that he is just wired that way.
We lost quite a bit in the trenches, but I thought that was more due to simulated pressures and how well the Jags diagnosed our protection schemes and could overload sides without having to send the extra rusher although they sprinkled in blitzes.
Their Josh Allen is a Swiss army knife - hand on the ground bull rushing and winning vs OL, or wide with speed, or off the ball covering he came as billed.
They did a good job attacking gaps forcing double teams while freeing up rushers on stunts.
They did a good job of containing the edges and forcing Allen to operate in the pocket or step up.
I said it in another thread they put on a clinic and our OL had their hands full.
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4 minutes ago, BrainwashedBillsFan said:
Never said he wasn’t a competitor, I love the guy, just that the game would have changed dramatically if he caught that ball. And yes terrific play by the defender, Diggs was embarrassed for sure.
Fair enough.
8-9 times out of ten I think Diggs wins that.
There were some pus comments that I thought were out of line for how many times that guy has bailed this offense out.
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2 hours ago, HoofHearted said:
As far as the play action and under center stuff that Cover 1 is drooling over - there was only one play action where we took advantage of the action. Everything else was outside or downfield which had no impact by the fact we were under center or showing some type of action.
This is a bad take.
When you consistently get more yards on average when executing under center both passing and in your running game why would you not lean into that with more reps?
Most anyone knows play action is specifically intended to free up passes downfield. So I am not following your logic that because plays were made downfield there was "no impact by the fact we were under center showing some type of action" - huh?
Not sure why folks get so wrapped around the axle with the fact that Allen is more effective operating under center like somehow that cripples him.
Maybe not every QB, but the numbers for Allen and this offense jump when he does operate under center. They should do it more no drooling needed.
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re: -He says more play action passes wouldn't have worked with the way the Jaguars were loading the box and showing heavy pressure looks. I've seen a lot of people criticize Dorsey for a low play action percentage in this game so I thought that was an interesting point.
I took something different away from the clips. In the second video around the 9:00 mark he actually stressed that play action runs from under center needed to happen a lot more, and kept talking about Dorsey needing to lean into play action under center more. We all know that Allen has a much higher percentage of completions and yards with play action under center, but he mentioned that it has a positive impact on our runs as well when Allen executes from under center. He brings up some stats - that we average 5.8 yards with runs from under center, but only 3.7 yards when we run from out of shotgun.A couple long completions throughout the second video he says, "Surprise, surprise with Allen under center..."
Aside from that, some obvious confusion with those mesh routes and receivers all ending up in the same area and I swear that whenever Allen set protection and pointed to the LB where he wanted our OL to slide the protection the Jags would cue off that and have that LB loop to the other side away from how our OL was sliding/setting protection. They did this a lot to overload our protection with just 4-5 rushers.
Credit where credit is due, the Jags put on a master class in how to simulate pressure looks and overload protection.
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47 minutes ago, BrainwashedBillsFan said:
Game would have been totally different if Diggs didn’t get punked and have that long ball ripped out of his hands like a puss puss. He was so mad that happened. Maybe it will humble him.
Really?
So how many games has Diggs been the only receiver to step up?
He lost a jump ball and not even a 50/50 one as I think the defender made a great play to have the better leverage at the catch point.
Barking up the wrong tree if you think Diggs is not a competitor.
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11 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:
Playing smart ain’t gonna get it done on a day you’ve got 0 running game, offensive line is getting steamrolled, defense is sitting on all the underneath routes, and opposing offense is moving the ball relatively easily.
They gave him the green light to go nuts way too late in this one 😂.
Jacksonville sat back protecting their lead and even Allen said the offense woke up a bit so probably a combination.
I think folks have the wrong idea with these supposed handcuffs on Allen.
I don't think they have that much of a leash on Allen, he changes plays at the line often, but to negate an effective rush a QB has to get rid of it quickly and hit the quicker routes underneath.
The Jags did a good job of overloading protection and using a variety of blitzes and stunts to get a free rusher in Allen's face.
It was a big test of pass pro and they were able to sniff out our running plays pretty well too.
There are a dozen ways I am thinking we could have run the ball better, but hindsight is 20/20.
My advice, let it go... on to the next opponent.
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17 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:
Well if that continues the Bills then what?
If Allen plays smart we will win more than we lose. Unless folks enjoyed that Jets game.
We need some luck too and our starters to be able to stay healthy. Less flag-happy crews would be welcomed.
Hope they leave those guys in England.
Other players have to step up on offense too, make a guy miss, get to the marker and move the chains, win contested throws, or block if you are a RB and have to pick up the blitz.
Allen may be playing a bit too conservative. I am just thinking he could pick up a few more 1st downs with his legs if scrambling and there is 5 yards of green in front of him.
I think he will find that sweet spot of when he should take chances and will be better for it.
I don't want to see him getting the crap beat out of him every game like last year either.
Ask yourself how much you want to see Kyle Allen starting?
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6 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:
Can anyone help me out and point me to where I can find the number of blitzes the Bills had today against the Jags?
Just want to know the number and proof of this to dispute someone I know who said the Bills were burned "blitzing on third down every time." I doubt they did this much and it was more likely simulated pressure most times.
Thanks.They did blitz quite a bit and on 3rd down, but I was not counting.
Those often left Elam and/or Hyde singled up in coverage and they got burnt enough times to extend drives. The rush was often just a step from getting home on those, so I am not sure I would get too wrapped around the axle on those being mistakes. There are some things technique-wise I think the Bills DBs and Safeties need to get better at when playing man and part of that I think is jamming and disrupting receivers and their timing at the line.
Lawrence looked like he was just throwing to spots on timing routes as blitz beaters. Today the backups to our backups got beat and just barely, so I don't think it is time to panic or get too down on coaching or our players.
I don't think Dorsey had the best plan, but it was not a terrible one and we were close to breaking out on a few drives that stalled out. I was not a fan of the officiating - way to introduce the Brits to the worst aspect of the sport. Ticky-tacky penalties like holding on an interior G negating exciting plays. Meh, got up too damn early to watch that.
Defense created some turnovers and stopped the Jags on the doorstep plenty of times, but the Jags were able to keep Allen and the offense on the sideline and eat a lot of clock and our offense did not have a lot of opportunities to try to cash in. Every possession felt like the offense had to press and Allen did not take the bait so for what it is worth it could have been worse with negative plays and turnovers.
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As much as I think the Brits are welcoming hosts, these "home" games are such a disadvantage for our team with travel and time adjustments.
This team has more than enough injuries. Tough this year with Tre and then Milano both gone for the year, but it is still early in the season and a chance for others to step up. Poona was brought in to rotate with Jones so we will see what he has left in the tank.
Elam looked shakey in coverage and Hyde is sufficient as a safety, but should not be playing man against speedsters.
Deep breath and curse the NFL schedule-makers and life goes on folks. I thought Josh played a decent game, but the penalties were ridiculously slanted and not in our favor during the game snuffing so many of our drives. Hard to get anything going when the hankies fly like that.
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2 hours ago, PaattMaann said:
Really don't love that. To me that makes Von returning all the more important. Don't want Kingsley Jonathan having to play for 40% of the snaps.
Agreed.
I am really looking forward to that Groot, Floyd, Von rotation.
Groot really knows how to set the edge, is disciplined with his rush lanes, uses his long reach and violent-hands to both keep blockers off him and shed when he needs to close on the QB or RB. He is effective playing inside and out. The kid is a great pickup and keeps trending in the right direction that it makes it really exciting when you think about the elite player he can become. -
14 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said:
Me too. If they tried to keep pace with the locals, well, a pint every 45 minutes for twelve hours should soften them up nicely.
Yup.
Those folks can drink. I have worked with plenty of folks from Ireland (company had sites there) and with Germans from Leverkusen.
Thought I could hold my own 😅. Not so much, they can drink beer (and wine) like it is water.
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5 hours ago, Heavy Kevi said:
It's
Just
Another
Game
But it's across the pond in the land of no dentists. Jags have been chilling over there waiting for us. Neutral field.
I think we still get it done!
I hope they have been chilling in British pubs all week.
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There were a lot of these that could have been handed out that game.
The coaches had our boys ready and with the right mindset and attitude.
"Don't expect a team to ever give you a win, you have to go out and take that win from them on every play."
I think D. Jones putting their Center on skates and flattening Tua ranks right up there.
I have seen a lot of awkward OL play in my years, but the way that dudes legs were sprawled out and his toes pointing out, leaning into Jones with everything he had as he skidded backwards - it was like he was trying to stop a bus rolling over him.
With the same results.
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3 hours ago, Marv said:
Love this segment. I can only imagine how much coffee Kyle has before he does this each week. Good work Dawson!
OMG "...like he was playing in wooden shoes."
That cracked me up 🤣😂
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46 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:
I was absolutely thinking the opposite and I’m on record saying it in the gameday thread lol
it was objectively harder for Miami to score than buffalo those first few drives…I think some of y’all are biased due to past football related traumas 😂
The bills were absolutely steamrolling the dolphins. The dolphins had a couple flukey plays drop in to sustain drives on offense early
Yep.
They had that tip drill over the middle that should have been an easy INT, but was tipped and redirected right to Waddle instead to keep the drive alive - I think that drive ended in an Achane score.
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29 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:
Good for you. Now go read one of the other 100s that have been written on this subject over the last decade plus.
Sorry bud.
I took that a bit far... believe what you want and it is all good.
Enjoy the Bills win.
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42 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:
Except I just showed you effective running is Irrelevant to the effectiveness of PA.
i am sorry you just refuse to believe facts and love those coachisms.
actual FACTS staring you right in the face and refuse to accept how sad actually
Some gems from that article of facts:
"The takeaway here is that once we’ve accounted for a team’s quarterback capabilities through PFF Grade (because that is always spot on), rushing rate and rushing performance relative to passing stats doesn’t tell us much about the effectiveness of their play-action usage."
I read that statement as more a lack of meaningful stats than a conclusive correlation one way or another between effectively running the ball and play action. Watering down the data creating a large sample size, individual team performance metrics (can they stop the run with their front 4 or do they have to commit more defenders...), situations like down and distance irrelevant because we all know play action on 3rd and short is just as effective as play action on 3rd and long right?
The point here is that an NFL defender’s instincts are built on the foundation of those formative years. For that reason, NFL teams don’t need to establish the run, because the threatening nature of it has already been instilled throughout the amateur ranks.
(All facts here folks and no conjecture - who am I to argue with a guy who clearly never saw Edmunds play the run)
and lastly for the very folks that argued that you never need to run the ball at all - your article said this.
Obviously, if a team only ran play-action and never attempted to run the ball, defenses would begin to adjust.
Begin to adjust 🤣
I am overwhelmed by the sheer factualness of this article.-
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Just now, Motorin' said:
There's a problem when people confuse probability with the ability to predict the future, and modeling with reality...
What's funny in the context of this debate, there's never been a game in NFL history where a team hasn't run the ball. Not once.
So the idea that "you don't have to run the ball for play action to be effective" has never been tested. Not in a single game in NFL history.
Yeah - I saw that.
We can get into some crazy debates here. I guess some folks are saying if you never manifest the threat of a run it is the same effective threat - perhaps, but I think there are degrees of threats and how much reaction they garner. Guy threatening to punch you, a guy who has punched others threatening to punch you, a guy who has already punched you threatening to do it again. Something like that
Play action looked good yesterday with Josh executing it from under center. I thought the play action from the gun looked a bit shaky on some of the exchanges and was not sure if they were trying for some RPO??
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7 minutes ago, Motorin' said:
It's impossible for the analytics to show that teams don't have to run the ball at all for play action to work.
Why? Because there's never been a season of NFL football where any team has ran the ball less than 18 times per game over the course of a season.
The conditions for the claim you guys are sticking to have never existed. Teams have to prepare to defend the run because teams run the ball. And play action passing work because defenses prepare to defend the run.
And teams have to prepare for the run because all teams run the ball...
I feel pretty good about what I think stats can and cannot tell me and I do place a lot of value on trending data as a tool for mapping and using probabilities.
I don't see a lot of value getting into the stat debates as I work with enough data analyst that I know they forget to look up sometimes from the numbers - it is a dead-end waste of time. For being such an infallible predictor the philosopher in me is pleased each and every time someone here or an organization like PFF who are immersed in stats come up wrong in their conclusions and predictions.
I will admit it makes me happy when they backtrack, talk about variables they did not factor in, and fail to render completely the game I love a into a joyless control chart. Perhaps they should just exchange statistics and skip the whole game playing thing
Meh - so I am old school, and I will continue to trust my eyes and how I think the Bills and their opponents perform in the context of each situation and game.
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NY Giants @ Buffalo Bills - SNF 1st half game thread
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
He needs to trip the receivers while he goes to the ground. Apparently, that isn't a PI in this game.