VW82
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Posts posted by VW82
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Are you kidding me? 75% of this board wants Allen to start immediately (which is dumb IMO) and now we're going to trade away the only offensive play maker on the roster? Sure hope not.
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11 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:
You mentally deranged point is the there are no two identical human beings placed in identical situations to play QB in the NFL. I will accept that point.
Mentally deranged?? Ha. I asked for a comp of a QB was considered really raw, lost his camp battle, but still started early in the year in his rookie season and became a franchise guy. You listed Dehaun Watson, an athletic QB who ran all over the league before he got hurt...in other words nothing like how Allen plays. Congrats for finding one recent example that's still a poor example.
FYI - the reason you can't find more of them is because most NFL teams aren't stupid enough to throw their raw QB out there when he showed in camp that he wasn't ready. They protect him as long as they can in order to better prepare him for the almost impossible job that is playing NFL QB. But yeah, I'm mentally deranged because I think patience is the best option.
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14 minutes ago, Chimp said:
But you are adamant that Allen is going to be a failure right? So, are you a hypocrite, or just not a Bills fan?
I'd say I'm pessimistic he'll work out, yes. That said, I am a Bills fan first - been one since wide right and I'll be one til the day I die - and I'd much rather be wrong about Allen and have him become a legit franchise guy.
I'm mostly surprised by the reaction on here to the opinion that we should be patient with our raw QB, instead of throwing him in the deep end right away and without help to see if he sinks or swims. That just seems crazy to me. His development should be more important than fans impatience.
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On our cap sheet.
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Carolina fans have been saying this for 2+ years.
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11 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:
The quoted scenario was asinine.
Ok, Deshaun Watson last year. Practically an exact parallel. Didn't win the job out of camp, took over in the second half of game 1.
Asinine or not, it's what posters on here are asking of Allen.
I'll give you Deshaun Watson, but it would seem QBs with elite athleticism would have a much better chance at early success due to their ability to take off and run. Allen can do some of that but it's not exactly the same thing.
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1 minute ago, KD in CA said:
He looked pretty good to me considering he was playing on a team down 40-0.
Put him on KC or San Fran and I bet he looks a lot like Mahomes or Garoppolo did today.
If anything the fact it was 40-0 and ravens had their second stringers in and had clearly taken their foot off the peddle would suggest we should have seen Allen do better. But he's not ready to play, so I'm not holding that against him.
Mahomes is a second year player who played in the Big 12 in a pro offense, and had a year to learn under Alex Smith and Andy Reid. Jimmy G is fifth year player who learned under Bill Belichik and Tom F'ing Brady, and then Kyle Shanahan. I'm sorry but there's no way Allen would have done as well as them.
The expectations on this kid are completely unreasonable. I feel bad for him, especially if fans get their wish and he starts next week. It'll be ugly.
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5 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:
Cam Newton was considered a reach by almost every Buffalo Bill fan , whom as a group were thrilled to get Marcell Dareus instead.
I do believe Cam won the starting job out of camp, no? Besides, every franchise in the league would have taken Cam number one. I'm not so concerned about Bills fans ability to judge college talent (if that part is even true).
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9 minutes ago, transient said:
Good thing Philadelphia didn’t throw a raw prospect who didn’t go to a major program to the wolves. One could only imagine how badly that could have turned out.
Wentz was the number two overall pick, universally considered the most ready to play (between him and Goff), and went to a team stacked with SB level talent. Completely different situations.
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3 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said Allen is garbage because he went to Wyoming or for any other reason. The offense he quarterbacked last season sucked out loud. Asking Allen to make the jump from one of the worst college offenses in the nation to an NFL offense is way beyond realistic. It's a terrible mistake by Beane and McD to have only Peterman and Allen as the only QBs on the roster. Allen is totally unprepared for what he's being asked to do. He might have a chance to be successful if the offense was otherwise stellar, but there are issues everywhere (except RB). The Bills spent so much capital to get him and now he's not going to get a chance to develop before he's ruined. This is on Beane and McD, not Allen.
This. Well said.
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2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:
And Mahomes threw for 11,000 yards and 93 TDs to Allen's 5,000 and 44. He also had every physical tool that Allen did, except he knew how to execute. 10x the prospect. He just needed to learn a pro system.
You're right it probably isn't the best comparison, but the point is it very likely helped Mahomes to sit and learn and mature before being thrown into the fire.
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5 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:
And yet there are plenty of examples where it just wasn't the case. More so than examples for the argument
Really?? Show me the raw QB who was universally considered a reach in the draft, who lost an easily winnable QB competition in camp to a no name, and then started from week two onward and went on to become a franchise guy for that team.
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Wow what do you know, Pat Mahomes is lighting up the supposedly resurgent Chargers after he sat for a year behind Alex Smith and learned how to be a QB. But what does Andy Reid know about developing QBs (Ha)?? Who thinks Mahomes would have been good as a rookie in Buffalo behind this Oline and with this receiver group?
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5 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:
"ruin his confidence" is such bull ****.
And yet it's regularly cited by NFL people as a reason for not throwing raw QBs out there before they're ready.
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Just now, GunnerBill said:
Peterman is not Jared Goff.
Huh?? I was referring to Allen.
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10 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:
Uh, Goff became the starter halfway through his rookie season. But I guess he'd be even better now if he hadn't played at all that year, huh?
Or...maybe getting to watch Case Keenum those first ten weeks and learn what it takes to be successful helped him in his seven starts to finish the year when the pressure was off to win games. Throwing Allen out there for week two is not remotely the same thing. If Bills can find a solution that doesn't involve Allen for our first ten weeks, then put him in a similar low pressure learning environment to finish out the year, that's great. Let him compete for real in year two. Don't ruin his confidence in week two.
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Food for thought: where would the Rams and Jared Goff be had they thrown him into the fire right out of the gate when he wasn't ready and their offense sucked? How much better off is that team having let him red shirt for ten games while he learned and they built up the talent around him?
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5 minutes ago, Figster said:
I get that and fully understand where your coming from, but now that the beane head sent our most experienced QB packing for the likes of noodle arm Nasty Nate the Bills are stuck between a rock and a hard spot IMO.
This is why they need to trade for another QB. As much as it hurts to burn another pick like that, it's the lesser of all evils: 1. losing a pick to get a competent QB for 2018; 2. losing the team by continuing to start Nate; 3. Ruining Josh Allen.
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13 minutes ago, transient said:
I don’t think poor play would ruin his confidence, I think poor coaching and lack of support would. If he has the talent let him take his lumps this season. He’s more mobile than Peterman and the threat of his arm should open up the running game somewhat. Spell him with Peterman for a series or two if you have to in order to let him collect his thoughts and to coach him up in game if he’s having a rough stretch, but the season would be completely wasted by continuing to start Peterman... and I personally don’t want to see him start another game for the Bills ever again.
If you start yanking Allen in and out with the starters from game to game or within the game as you suggested, it's going to send the wrong message to the team (i.e. that the coaching staff doesn't know what it's doing) and to both QBs. There's a reason no one in the NFL does it like that with the exception of special play packages for guys like Lamar Jackson. Allen isn't that type of QB.
Also, the scenario you describe (i.e. lack of support) is exactly what he's facing. His Oline sucks, and his WRs don't get separation. That's the definition of lack of QB support. This is to say nothing of the fact that not even McBeane knows for certain whether Daboll is the right guy yet. There's way more downside than upside to starting him this early.
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20 minutes ago, Figster said:
Allen clearly stands out as the best signal caller IMO.
That's debatable, especially since they had a three month long QB competition and Allen lost. But the point is that as a Bills fan you'd rather have Allen as a franchise guy for 10 years right? Well that probably doesn't happen if you throw him out there too early and wreck his confidence before he's ready. It doesn't matter whether he's better than Peterman. It only matters whether he's far enough along in his development to handle being a franchise guy. Hint: he's not.
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Is this a troll post?? I mean, the kid clearly has some (arm) talent but he has no idea what's going on out there. He was mostly befuddled by Ravens second stringers after they'd taken their foot off the peddle in a 40 point blow out.
Why are Bills fans so eager to throw this kid to the wolves (way before he's ready) and ruin his confidence? I get that Peterman sucks and you don't want to watch him anymore, but there has to be a bigger picture element to Allen's development, no?
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3 minutes ago, klos63 said:
How do you get a QB now? We had Mccarron, seemed pretty crazy to count on Peterman and trade him.
We're going to have to trade for one. It's either that or you tell your team you're throwing away the season. They know Josh isn't remotely close to ready. He even came out and said after his preseason start that he wasn't ready. If they start him over this upcoming murderer's row of games they'll ruin him, and lose the team at the same time.
The Peterman decision (coupled with the decision to trade Tyrold and not to pursue a capable veteran in the offseason; clearly McCarron didn't cut it) is a sunk cost at this point. It's worth a second round pick to not wreck your rookie QB before he's ready and completely lose the locker room.
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11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:
He had a rating of 0.0 today. that's down from 38 last season.
What other proof that he is not an NFL quality QB are you looking for?
Just curious.
Yeah I agree it's a long shot at best he's even an NFL back up at this point but throwing Allen to the wolves when he clearly isn't ready either is a terrible plan. Bills have just invested too much in this kid to needlessly ruin him like that. McBeane have really F'd this up IMO.
I'd start Peterman vs. Chargers as the lesser of two evils. When he inevitably fails, you bring Allen in again to play second half. Depending how that goes maybe you consider starting him week 3. Personally, I'd be looking for a QB in a trade who can finish out the year. I don't think Allen will be the guy either - trying to teach a kid how to play the position when he's never proven capable at any of the lower levels rarely works - but if he's going to become a capable player it'll be because they brought him along at the right pace, and didn't destroy his confidence early. That kid needs patience as much as anything.
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I think the decision to pull him so early was warranted. He had happy feet back there and was starting to force things like he did against Chargers. Plus, because we were down by so much it was a nice, pressure free environment to get Allen some extended NFL reps.
I'd give Peterman one more chance to prove he's an NFL QB. If he flames out again next week against the team that humiliated him last year, then I think you consider trading for a vet QB and cutting him. It's harsh, but he doesn't seem able to rebound when things don't go his way early. Otherwise you're just keeping him to lose on purpose or to be a second year "vet" QB room guy which seems like a waste of a roster spot.
Zone Defense = #1 Problem? Or Zero Pass Rush?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted · Edited by VW82
I thought Kyle and Harrison Phillips were ok. Edmunds made some plays as did Milano and Alexander. Everyone else was a complete non-factor. Zero rush from the ends. Shaq Lawson is right off for me. Can't believe we wasted a FRP on him. Flacco had all day to pick us apart. Run D was ok all things considered.
edit: for those of you killing Star (and I hated that contract immediately) we should be grading him on the run D. That's his main job. We gave up 117 on the ground today (and three TDs - ouch!!) but it took them 34 rushes to do it. It wasn't terrible.
As bad as it looked at times I don't think our D was anywhere near as bad as the 47 we allowed. There were signs of competence on that side, but when you let a team go 6-6 in the red zone the score board isn't going to look pretty. We were so good defending down there last year I have to think McD gets that figured out.