VW82

Good for Shavers. It's an important story for McBeane, Bills culture.

I said we were in this position because we whiffed on Carter and because Ogunjobi lied. Clearly, if things had progressed to the point of him flying to Buffalo to sign an agreement, we’d already done a bunch of due diligence on guys and felt good about him. At that point, what were we supposed to do? I’d argue Beane made the best of a bad situation. Getting two good DT prospects in the draft further insulated us against really bad outcomes. Signing Phillips even further helps. I don’t know if you’re aware but we didn’t exactly have tons of cap and Aaron Donald wasn’t coming out of retirement to play with us. Fans can whine and complain all they want but how we handled our DT depth/future this off season was prudent even if a little unlucky.

And what difference does that make? Ogunjobi was signed in FA because our DT depth sucked last year. For all we know, him and Phillps will be in the playoff rotation. This team has been undermanned on the DL for years. Now we have proven back ups + an influx of young talent. We're loaded with depth. Somehow this is being portrayed as a bad thing.

Your point stands but I don't see why bringing Sanders or Walker into it yet makes sense. They're rookies, and from everything I've seen/read, they look like really promising players. The crux of the issue is we whiffed on Carter and got lied to by Ogunjobi, which is why we're in this spot. Also, McBeane usually only carry one traditional 1T on the active roster, so calling everyone who isn't that a 3T isn't correct within the context of their system (i.e. Phillips and Walker will be used as rushers from the 1T spot on passing downs). Again, I like how they handled the Phillips signing as it gave them a chance to evaluate Carter, Sanders, and Walker. I suspect they had Phillips ready to go the whole time. He's a useful piece. If we need to do this again next year, then you'll have better grounds to make the point you're trying to make.

We're a SB contender relying on rookies to fill big roles in the interior of our defense. I'm sure they hoped Carter would've developed into something useful. As it stands, he looks like a bust. Meanwhile, because they didn't have Phillips in camp, they gave valuable reps to their young players. Sanders and Walker will likely contribute this year, but asking them to do so right away in a meaningful role isn't the best winning strategy. Signing Phillips says absolutely nothing about the long-term expectations for Sanders and Walker. It does say something about Carter, though.

I like that we take swings on these guys. Jackson has a lot of tools and might be quality starter one day. That’s a really good outcome for 3rd round. What does a more game ready rookie with more limited upside actually do for us? Plus, taking raw, toolsy players like Jackson, Walker, Bernard, Bishop, Keon, etc., and making them wait allows the team to maintain their “everything earned” stance and have it be legit. That’s an important part of winning culture in pretty much everything let alone football.

A few as in three? I definitely missed that.

I think both Ciarlo and Shenault make it over Shavers for teams. Shavers makes 53 if we decide to keep six WR which isn't a guarantee at this stage. Everyone is overlooking teams imo.

Lots of folks seem to believe we'll keep six WRs this year. Why? Last year we kept five. A big part of our offensive philosophy seems to be "play big" with extra linemen or TEs. At some point, there just isn't room, especially if we go into the season with a few injured guys we probably don't want to stash on IR given they might be back in a week or two (e.g. Tre, Max). If we only keep five, has Shavers done enough on teams to outplay a guy like Shenault? The latter appears to have also had a great camp / preseason, but specifically in the role he'd play every week as a core teams guy. Interesting he can even return kicks. I don't mean to downplay how good Shavers has been, and he'd be the first call once one of the top 4 goes down (samuel, samuel, curtis), but that likely isn't the case heading into week one, and I tend not to think Shavers will make it over Samuel given the traits he (theoretically) brings to the offense that no one else does. Maybe I'm missing something here Edit: another poster intimated Shenault was a disaster in coverage yesterday so maybe that complicates things.

Lots of talk about Shavers the WR but little about Shavers on teams which is interesting because presumably that would be his main role if he made it. Is the idea here that even though we like to play big with extra lineman and/or TEs, we're going to carry six WR this year? I kinda don't see it, especially with all these injuries heading into the season. We have enough guys that we won't want to stash on IR because they'll be back and so will need to make the team and just be inactive for a week or two. I'll admit that Shavers could quickly become top 4 the moment one of our actual top 4 gets hurt which seems likely with Samuel's track record, but that won't be the case heading into week one.

Ok so to summarize the events of the day: -Tre gets "carted off" except he walked part way and it doesn't sound serious. -stark reminder that even if White heals up and starts week one, CB2 is shaky until one of the young guys steps up and solidifies it. -something, something Asante Samuel and Rasual Douglas. whatever.

That’s a different issue though I’d argue Hancock has outperformed Hamlin. Bishop was outperforming too before sustaining yet another injury. It looked to me like he rushed coming back due to McD’s comments.

We are apparently now “ruthless” fans for wanting the team to move on from Hamlin per all the mainstream media.

I agree. It's still early, but one season plus most of a second off season and preseason is enough to form an opinion. Keon looks improved but he's going to take time to learn all the nuances one needs to win without speed. Bishop and Carter are behind the eight ball. Ray Davis is ok. SVPG is TBD. Ulofoshio looks like a bust. Solomon struggles vs. the run and isn't getting as much pressure as one would hope for a one trick pony. Grable is super interesting but hurt. I like our 2025 class much better, or at least have more hope.

Right he hurt it trying to be a physical football player and was never the same. If memory serves, he was tackling someone after throwing a pick. And Josh doesn't just run into DBs. We do designed sneaks and runs right into the teeth of the defense all the time. It exposes him to getting hit. There are few examples throughout NFL history of teams using their QB like we use Josh, so you can say the data says x but it's mostly meaningless. Josh is a unicorn. I'll make you a friendly bet that at some point in the next 2-3 years we stop doing as many designed QB runs/sneaks and reference Josh's continued health as the reason. Even if you believe Josh to be indestructable, the threat of coaching intervention is still there, and that will force the kind of changes I'm talking about.