SoTier
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Posts posted by SoTier
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14 minutes ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:
I say Maybin because the decision was just terrible. Some guys had injuries or whatever which to me explains their "bust". The guy somehow weighed like 240 at the combine or something when he had no frame to support that. There were better pass rush options at the time, pretty much everyone knew it except Nix.
That wasn't Nix. He might have been on the Bills staff at that time, but it was Brandon and Jauron running the draft in 2009. Jauron loved smurfs on defense because they were supposed to be faster (I still remember watching Bills LBs regularly being dragging downfield by RBs). IIRC, Maybin had straight line speed even at 240 lbs (which was like 30+ lbs more than his playing weight at PSU) but he didn't have much agility so he couldn't develop the kinds of moves that lighter edge rushers use to get to QBs.
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1 hour ago, BillsfaninChicago said:
Based on what we gave up to get him and who we could have gotten if DonaDOH! Had just been patient after the move up for Rothlishburger fell through I actually say Losman. The 3 picks lost including a 2nd and a 1st that we could used to get Rodgers would most certainly have ended drought much sooner than 2017.
What makes you think that Aaron Rodgers would have been anything but a mediocre QB on the Bills in the 2005-2009 period? Mularkey couldn't get much out of Pro Bowler Drew Bledsoe in 2004-2005 and Jauron seemed to have a pathological dislike for talented players who didn't toe his play-not-to-lose-by-too-much line. Captain Checkdown Trent Edwards was Juaron's style QB. He banished Beast Mode Marshawn Lynch to his "doghouse" in 2009 when Lynch was the only offense the Bills had. Rodgers would have clashed with Jauron instantly simply because he wanted to win football games not play not to lose them by too much.
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4 hours ago, Charles Romes said:
Maybin (Penn State) was picked when Russ Brandon actually had the title of GM, and I really think Brandon himself made the pick to market the team to northern PA, just like he was marketing the team to Rochester with the training camp and to the Golden Horseshoe with the Toronto series.
I voted for Maybin, too. I never thought of the Penn State angle, but it's definitely a possibility. I just thought that Brandon let Dick Jauron be his talent evaluator and Jauron loved undersized defenders, so a tweener DE who was too small to knock OLers out of his way and too slow to loop around them was just up Jauron''s alley.
Certainly, Manuel was drafted in 2013 solely to put butts in the seats, so he is my second choice. He was a classic "reach": a third or fourth round talent taken in the first round because the team "needed" a player at that position. Every time I hear one of these draftniks on TV advocating for Detroit or Carolina to take a QB because they might not be drafting this high again, I cringe. Drafting a QB with the #2 or #6 pick just because you need a QB even though he's not a top 5 or top 10 quality prospect is sheer stupidity. Drafting a second or third round talent high in the first round isn't going to make him better.
Mike Williams is third on my list, mostly because I think Williams was totally mismanaged by the Bills. Williams played RT in college, and he was built like a prototypical pro RT at the time: a massive man who opened holes for inside runners. The Bills tried to turn him into a LT, a position for which he wasn't physically suited, because that's what they needed. I think he played well on the right side as a rookie, but his play tailed off when he was put at left tackle because he simply wasn't quick or agile enough to play there. In fact, he probably would have had a decent career if he'd been drafted later specifically to play guard. At the end of his career with Washington, Williams did switch to guard but his career was cut short by a medical issue IIRC.
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11 minutes ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:
Like Hebert and certain extent Burrow, I’m a fan of their play and would probably be one of Allen too just based on abilities. Strangely and this is weird to say but I’m not sure he would be this good if he wasn’t taken by Buffalo. The coaching situation worked in his favor.
Fam and I went to Pro-Am a couple months ago. On fourth hole my kids (8/10) in there JA gear were waving at him. His was speaking with his Larry Fitzgerald and other golfers but saw them, walked about 20-30 yards over to us for some fist bumps, pics and autographs. He didn’t need to do that. Rest of round he was equally patient and generous with time and with kids. Always a Bills fan but also will always be a JA fan. Go Bills. Go JA17
At a time when football players behaving badly off the field has become commonplace (or maybe bad behavior can't be hidden as easily as it was in the past), Allen isn't just a superstar on the field, he's one off the field as well.
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1 hour ago, boater said:
While not "Superstars" Joe Ferguson and Jack Kemp were no slouches.
True but Jack Kemp was drafted by the Steelers in 1957 when they were in the NFL. Kemp played 2 seasons with the AFL LA Chargers that became the SD Chargers before he was traded to the Bills when they played in the AFL. After the 1966 season, the Bills fell apart, and Kemp's career ended in 1969, the year before the AFL totally merger with the NFL. Joe Ferguson was a nice QB but he wasn't a great one. He was the only QB the Bills drafted who became Jim Kelly spent 2 years in the original USFL. Daryle Lamonica was drafted by the Bills and later became a superstar but only after he left the Bills.
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I was po'd at the Bills for about six or seven years because they didn't draft Russell Wilson in 2012. The Seahawks became one of my favorite teams because of Russ -- except when they play the Bills. Now I'll become more of a lukewarm Broncos fan.
I was po'd after the fact at the Bills for a couple of years because they traded out the #10 pick in 2017 and so passed on Patrick Mahomes. KC is one of my favorite teams -- as long as they aren't playing the Bills or if their winning a game would impact the Bills.
I've always liked Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, and Kirk Cousins, so I have little doubt that I would still like Josh Allen even if he had no connection to the Bills. After all, it wouldn't have been his fault that the Browns drafted him first overall. If he'd been drafted by the Jests, I don't think I could "like" him but I would probably pity him because he wouldn't be the QB he is with the Bills ...
Isn't it utterly and completely awesome that we Bills fans no longer have to console ourselves by saying that some other team's great QB wouldn't be the great QB he is if he'd had been drafted by the Bills? The Bills actually drafted a QB and developed him into a superstar. First time this franchise has ever done that.
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18 hours ago, Warcodered said:
Hotel that provides licensed massage therapists, still brings in unlicensed ones.
Call me naive or old fashioned, but why would a woman who isn't a licensed masseuse -- ie, she's not a professional masseuse -- expect that some big time celeb who invited her to a hotel room for a "massage" actually wanted only a massage? It seems to me that the "negligence" here is on the part of the women who failed to exercise common sense.
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18 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:
Late in the draft process there is information overload and you can begin to doubt some of the things you KNOW are right.
When you are considering a RB in round 1...........ask this simple question.............in the past 30 years what RB that the Bills could have picked in round 1 that subsequently went in round 1 did the Bills live to regret NOT taking with that pick?
There aren't any.
But they should regret ALL of the RB's they have taken in round 1 in that time frame.
None of them even got a second contract and that was BEFORE not giving RB's second contracts was accepted as the best move.
Your 1st round pick is a chance to add a franchise building block..........RB's are just short term rental-level impact for your franchise........and the notion that a rookie RB of any ilk is the final piece of any SB puzzle has proven to be without merit for decades now.
For the first 25 of the last 30 years the Bills stunk because Ralph Wilson and his hand-picked successor, Russ Brandon, put maximizing profits ahead of winning football games. The Bills did not start prioritizing winning over maximizing profits until 2018 because Pegula kept Brandon in power after he purchased the team. It was only after Russ Brandon got the boot and Beane was given real GM power (including setting budgets for coaches, scouting, etc) did the Bills start putting winning ahead of profits.
Once the salary cap was instituted in 1994, the Bills didn't give many of their first round draft picks second contracts not just RBs but also DBs whom they traded out with regularity.
1994 - Jeff Burris DB 1994-1998
1995 - Ruben Brown G 1995-2003 9 times Pro Bowler, 8 times with the Bills, 1 time with Bears
1996 - Eric Moulds WR 1996-2005 3 times Pro Bowler for Bills
1997 - Antowain Smith RB 1997-2000 won 2 SB rings with New England in 2001 and 2003
1998 - no first round pick
1999 - Antoine Winfield CB 1999-2003 3 times Pro Bowler for the Vikings
2000- Erik Flowers DE 2000-2001
2001 - Nate Clements DB 2001-2006 Pro Bowler for the Bills
2002 - Mike Williams OT 2002-2005
2003 - Willis McGahee RB 2003-2006 Pro Bowler with both Ravens and Broncos
2004 - Lee Evans WR 2004 -2010
2004 - JP Losman QB 2004-2008
2005 - no first round pick
2006 - Donte Whitner S 2006-2010 Pro Bowler for 49ers and Browns
2006 - John McCargo DT 2006-2010
2007 - Marshawn Lynch RB 2007-2010 Pro Bowler for Bills, 4 times Pro Bowler and 1 time All Pro for Seahawks won SB with Seahawks in 2014
2008 - Leotis McKelvin DB 2008-2015
2009 - Aaron Maybin DE 2009-2010
2009 - Eric Wood 0C 2009-2017
2010 - CJ Spiller RB 2010-2014 Pro Bowler for Bills
2011 - Marcell Dareus DT 2011-2017 2 time Pro Bowler, 1 time All Pro for Bills
2012 - Stephon Gilmore CB 2012-2016 1 time Pro Bowler for Bills, 3 times Pro Bowler and 2 time All Pro for Patriots, 1 time Pro Bowler for Panthers
2013 - EJ Manuel QB 2013-2016
2014 - Sammy Watkins WR 2014-2016
2015 - no first round pick
2016 - Shaq Lawson DE 2016-2019
2017 - Tre'Davious White 2017-present 2 times Pro Bowler for Bills
Brown, Moulds, and Dareus were the only outstanding first round players at their positions that the Bills signed to second contracts until Beane re-signed Tre White. Brown, Winfield, McGahee, Whitner, Lynch, and Gilmore were all named to Pro Bowls after the Bills either released them, declined to re-sign them or traded them. Lynch and Gilmore were also named All Pros after leaving the Bills. Both also won Super Bowl rings as did Antowain Smith. Ruben Brown also played in a Super Bowl with Bears while the Bills didn't even play in the post season from 2000 until 2017. The Bills failed to draft particularly well in the first round for most of the last 30 years, and they compounded their problems by sending most of the best players they developed packing rather than paying them. For most of the 2000s, the Bills were irrelevant to the NFL except as a farm club for other teams.
It wasn't drafting McGahee, Spiller and Lynch that caused that any more than it was drafting Winfield, Clements, Whitner and Gilmore. They were all good players. The Bills were a dysfunctional franchise for most of the last 30 years.
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3 hours ago, NewEra said:
Word. I’m sure Singletary and Duke will be just fine in 2022 as long as our OL is sufficient.
Then the Bills should take Zion Johnson or Ryan Linderbaum if one of them is on the board at #25.
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5 hours ago, whorlnut said:
That’s my point though…get weapons that help Allen instead of putting it all on him. Make his life as easy as possible. Keep stacking long term weapons on offense. We saw too many times last year that he literally won the game on his own. He was the leading rusher way too often. That isn’t sustainable.
Totally agree. The defense is good enough. We can get by with a Jag at CB2…which is exactly what every McD led defense has done back to his days in Carolina. And he is the best in the league at getting the most out of DBs.
This is exactly why I support improving the running game. I don't care exactly how the Bills do it -- drafting a top IOL prospect (Johnson or Linderbaum) or the top RB prospect (Hall) in this draft -- but they need to protect Allen by giving him a more diverse offense so that his designed runs are much fewer and so that the Bills can run the ball down other teams' throats if weather conditions (like the NE game) or defensive scheme makes passing difficult. I don't want the Bills to turn into a 50/50 pass/run team and I certainly don't want them to morph into a run first team, but I want them to be able to have a good enough run game for the RBs to regularly run for 4-6 yards a crack with the threat of one of them breaking a long gainer on the ground ever present.
44 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:I disagree. There is nothing better than a first round corner, even at #1 overall. The Bills historically had nothing but smashing success with 1st round defensive backs. Think of all of the games that McKelvin, Whitner, Gilmore, and the rest have won for us.
I am kinda hoping that we mortgage the future and take that safety from Notre Dame, but otoh maybe not because he isn't a corner, and you can't have too many corners. Just ask Marv Levy!
Love the sarcasm!!!!
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3 minutes ago, NewEra said:
Context…..more
I was replying to someone that blasted on posters for preferring to take the 5th best corner over the best RB.
Depending on the draft classes, as I also mentioned, I think many teams would rather have the 5th best corner over the best RB. That will likely hold true in this years drafts too. Done by professionals that get paid to do this.
I understand that but using White as an example was a poor choice, especially when the Bills pre-Beane gave us sooooooo many examples.
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54 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:
Nope - I will vote no. He is not worth an early pick - so I would rather not have him than draft him early.
Soooo ... you don't think Hall is worth an early pick but you assume that some professional NFL talent evaluator will take him before the Bills get to draft him in Round 3?
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10 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:
I don’t mind trying to upgrade the RB room but reaching for an RB in the 1st round seems like total overkill
Why is Hall a "reach"? He's considered the best RB in this draft class and a first round talent. I don't want the Bills to reach for a player at any position.
9 hours ago, NewEra said:I’m glad that we reached on Tre’Davious White …..the 5th cb drafted.
not saying that is our best option….but I think that each draft class is different and being the 5th best often has a lot to do with the other players in the class. There are 6-8 WRs I’d MUCH rather draft than Breece Hall.
you’d rather draft Hall over Pickens, Dotson and Watson?
Don't try to rewrite history. White might have been a reach at #10 but wasn't considered one at #24 or #25 where the Bills took him. The controversy with White was that the Bills traded out of the #10 pick when they needed a QB and 2 excellent prospects, Mahomes and Watson, were available. Taking White also seemed to be part of the same old, same old Bills management pattern under Ralph Wilson/Russ Brandon regime during the salary cap era: allowing good/great players to walk rather than give them a second contract and using the draft to fill the hole left in the roster. The Bills passed on a QB to draft a DB because they had allowed Stephon Gilmore to leave in FA earlier.
6 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:I’m not against a RB in the late 1st or early 2nd. You just have to make sure you get a workhorse.
I think drafting Zion Johnson would help improve the run game more than any RB in the draft.
I'm a ZJ fan myself and would definitely want the Bills to take him over Hall if both were available. However, most of the posters arguing against Hall also don't want a first round IOLer. They simply don't want RBs because of their short "shelf lives" and they don't want IOLers because they're "too expensive" if teams exercise fifth year options. Neither is a particularly compelling reason, especially when few, if any, of the posters in this thread arguing against the Bills taking Hall at #25 have actually named a WR or CB that they'd like the Bills to take.
It seems to me that if you don't want the Bills to take Hall, then you ought to offer the name of a specific alternative, ie, an actual prospect not a generic WR or CB.
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4 hours ago, Yantha said:
You know, this draft is deep at WR and I'd rather see who's available as a potential long term player for the Bills with 4th round WR options. Interesting idea though.
I think that the FO thinks more about whether a player will help the team win superbowls moreso than thinking about 5th year options. If a bon afide PLAYMAKER can be added, I think they just go get 'em.
I agree with this view of Beane. I was very skeptical about him early on but he's proven that he's not only all about building a winning team but really good at it, so I'm good with whomever he takes in the first round although my personal preference would be IOLers Zion Johnson or Tyler Linderbaum if they're available.
As for the fifth year option argument, I think it's overblown. With first round draft picks expected to start contributing as rookies, teams generally know what they have in a player well before they have to make a decision on a fifth year option.
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On 4/16/2022 at 1:19 PM, Yantha said:
Hey folks,
I might be an outlier here, but my mind has changed a few times in the lead up to the draft. After we've added a few key pieces to our roster, and lost a few others, I'm starting to think that our draft needs have shifted.... surprisingly in my opinion to OFFENSE moreso than defense.
Hear me out.
Positional groups needs I think are in the following order of "need". While I DO understand that some positions are more noticeable if the team is weaker at that position (like QB, Cornerback), here are our positional grouping needs in order of weakest to strongest.
Center: I feel that Center has been the most sneaky need this team has, and feel that the position MUST be upgraded in the early rounds, without question. Not only do we lack depth but Morse needs and upgrade as the starter.
Tight End: We have one of the best QB's in the league but completely lack the TE option on this team. In KC, Kelce is such a threat that their WR's look that much better since safeties can't double cover or drop too deep for support. I'd say a second rounder on TE is a serious option for the upcoming draft.
Guard: Part of the reason we haven't had a great running game is due to the lack of a dominant, run-blocking front. While I feel that our runningbacks in their own right don't exactly instill fear in opposing defenses, an upgrade at ONE guard spot could help in this regard. Hoping for a balanced target, but one that has a nasty streak that can can create some inside lanes. It MIGHT even help Moss elevate his game.
Runningback: We suck. Sorry but we do. I used to be a big Tomlinson fan and have been longing to see a DOMINANT run game from the Bills. Having the THUNDER to go with Allen's lightning would have a domino effect of helping out Diggs/Davis on the outside. Stack the box? Well that would help our NEW TE, as well as our WRs.
Defensive End: Yes, I know I'm an outlier here, but IF we don't bring back Hughes, I feel that's a bigger loss than some on this board feel. Boogie, Epensa, Addison, Lawson are all playing at a backup level (on this playoff caliber team).
Cornerback: This is where I have cornerback, but it likely bumps up to somewhere near the top because, like I mentioned, corner is one of those positions where you've GOT to have quality starters or the whole game will unravel. I think we need not one, but two additions. I think that Taron Johnson might be the only corner I feel somewhat happy with. Siran Neal should NOT start.
Agree with all this, especially the interior OL positions. I have always been a BPA advocate, but I think that in this draft with the Bills draft position, BPA and need may very well coincide, especially in the first round. #25 is an excellent spot to find a top quality center or guard, and drafting one that could start in September could be the best way to improve the running game even if the Bills don't add a RB early. That's not even considering how much improved protection could help the passing game.
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16 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:
Kyler Murray single handedly defeated the Buffalo Bills two years ago with :05 seconds left in a regular season game. He deserves a monster contract.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally.
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2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:
They reworked the contract, but can get out of it at anytime pretty cheaply (his dead cap hit is $5M next year). Plus, Morse is on the verge of retirement. And is one slap to the head away from a forced retirement.
Get the Center who will be with Josh for the rest of his contract.
If Linderbaum or Johnson are on the board when the Bills get their turn, they should definitely take him for exactly the reasons you list plus the fact that it's likely he'll be a significant upgrade over Morse who's a decent but not outstanding center. Moreover, both of them can play guard IIRC, so that's a big bonus.
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1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:
Devin Lloyd and Tyler Linderbaum not getting the respect they deserve here. Those are blue chip prospects, with not a lot of depth at their position in this draft.
We can get DBs and WRs later. If Linderbaum and/or Lloyd is there at #25, Bills would be nuts to pass on that value.
Unfortunately, there's no respect for OLers, including Linderbaum and Johnson, because the draft gurus here don't think IOLers are "valuable" enough to be drafted in the first round. IOLers are never appreciated until you don't good ones and your QB pays the price.
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11 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:
Scrubs, I don't want no scrubs
No under-sized "one hit wonders" on the DL or at LB.
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I voted for Zion Johnson, Boston College. The Bills need a computer nerd on the OL!
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On 4/11/2022 at 2:56 PM, Gugny said:
"People want The Rolling Stones to be cool, dirty, raucous. They don’t want to understand that The Rolling Stones were chasing a hit constantly and feeding off whatever the hippest thing was, copying whatever The Beatles did last week," he explained. “That disrupts the fantasy. And the fantasy’s amazing – I have indulged many times with those kinds of bands. That’s not an insult. That’s them being smart and figuring out a way to keep a train moving.”
On 4/11/2022 at 2:58 PM, TBBills said:That is absolutely true they were obsessed with the Beatles and how popular they were.
Agree. The Beatles themselves started out as simply a band seeking commercial success, and the Stones started out in the mid-Sixties as just another British Invasion Beatles imitator band seeking commercial success like Herman's Hermits or Jerry and the Pacemakers. The Stones matured like the Beatles did, but they were followers of trends rather than creative geniuses ala the Beatles led by John Lennon and Paul McCartney.
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15 hours ago, Don Otreply said:
Sports without talking smack with friends and other teams fans is a vastly reduced experience, where would we be if no one ever busted a fins fan over their weak little QB? Or a jets fan about the tire fire that is that organization?? The freaking world would stop spinning on its axis, the space time continuum would collapse, I could end up the dictator of the planet earth…, and really, who wants that???? We are all better off talking some trash from time to time, it soothes the soul, much like a well mixed martini and a cigarette 🚬
I'm old ... I've mellowed.
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I think that if there's a push for an international team, it will be Mexico City rather than London simply for logistical reasons.
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1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:
It’s always okay to dump on the entire Pats organization, to include their QB, in fact if you are a real fan you dump on any team that’s not your own, like it or not, it’s a rule…, 😁👍
After decades of being on the receiving end of manure from Pats, Fins, and Jests fans because this franchise was so hopeless for so long, I revel in knowing that we have one of the very best organizations in the NFL that found a generational talent at QB. I don't get my jollies rubbing other teams' proverbial noses in poop on a MB. The Bills kicking butt during the season and playoffs is sweet enough revenge.
1 hour ago, TheBrownBear said:Yes, a guy with freakish arm strength can make plays that an average arm can't. That's been true throughout the entire history of the forward pass. That doesn't mean Mac Jones can't be a good-to-great QB. He just needs to make up for it in different ways (pre-snap reads, anticipation, looking guys off, ball placement, etc.). Yes, he's an extreme outlier, but look at what Drew Brees accomplished over his career with an average arm. And Brady didn't have a particularly strong arm when he entered the league, but he somehow improved that over time through "diet and excercise." I'm not about to write a guy off after a solid rookie season where he led a mediocre roster to the playoffs.
Totally agree. IMO, Belichick wanted Jones because he thinks he can coach him into a facsimile of Brady. Maybe he can but he probably won't, but certainly Brady and Brees are examples of guys without rocket arms who are going to Canton on the first ballot.
1 hour ago, Mat68 said:That is a lazer beam like Allens its likely a TD. The air under the ball allowed the extra time needed to make a play on the ball. It doesnt make any blanket statements about Jones success level. Simply, this time of year traits get downplayed by many looking at draft prospects. This video
shows why things like arm strength can make a difference.
Unfortunately, QBs like Rodgers or Mahomes or Allen don't come along that often. That's why they're "generational talents".
Mostly, the best a team can realistically hope for is getting a Russell Wilson or a Ben Roethlisberger or Drew Brees. They're great QBs but a team that finds a Rodgers, Mahomes or Allen has a horseshoe up its butt. For a team to get into the position to draft a top QB prospect when it needs one usually means having several circumstances to fall their way. The best QB in a draft class may very well not be the #1 overall pick. Rodgers (#24), Mahomes(#10) or Allen(#7) weren't the first QBs taken in their draft classes.
Biggest Bills Bust Post 1980
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
The Bills didn't go "all in on Fitz" because the Bills under Russ Brandon were all about maximizing profits not winning football games. If Fitz had managed to morph into Aaron Rodgers, they would have kept him at mid-range starting QB money. They also didn't spend on backup QBs; I think almost all of their backups while Brandon was the head of the organization might have been practice squad players at best on most other teams. That included Nathan Peterman during Josh Allen's rookie season.
Russ Brandon became Bills GM in 2006 and was finally fired in 2018. Keeping Brandon after he bought the team and then promoting him after the Rex Ryan disaster to head both the Bills and Sabres was the biggest mistake Pegula made. Luckily, Pegula made the right pick for Bills GM with Beane. The Sabres paid for Brandon's "money ball" philosophy for a lot longer, although they seem to be finally making strides in the right direction.