HoofHearted

I'm not in the building - I can't answer this. You're right though - he is electric with the ball in his hands in open space. If it's a matter of him struggling to learn the scheme (pure speculation on my part) you'd think they'd at least be able to use him in the screen game. They've used him as an outside receiver deep ball threat and he's looked less than impressive in that role, but they do need to find a way to get him the ball in space. Not sure what you're getting at with the Kincaid comment. Again, not sure what you're getting at here.

All of the above at different times throughout the game. Here's what I mean: Drive 1: Dorsey did a fantastic job with a Change of Strength shift then motion to scheme Diggs wide open in the flat for a big gainer Drive 2: Dorsey motions across the formation and pulls the overhang into the box vs the split zone run concept we run and it gets shut down Drive 2: Dawkins whiffs a block on a well designed pin and pull concept that would have gone for at least 10 had he maintained the down block Drive 2: Dorsey schemes Diggs 1v1 on a backer using a short motion and Diggs runs an in-breaking route vs inside leverage instead of running the out-breaking route he should have (and Josh anticipated him running) Drive 2: Vertical pass concepts are covered - Allen doesn't take the check-down which probably would have gotten us into a forth and short in "go for it" territory Drive 3: Allen under throws a hole shot and gets intercepted Drive 4: Morse whiffs a block on outside zone that would have been a solid gainer had he made it Drive 5: Allen does a really good job with eye manipulation to uncover Kincaid on a decent gain Drive 5: Allen takes the 1v1 option to Davis and isn't on the same page and throws the vertical instead of playing the field concepts which were also man beaters vs man coverage Drive 6: Allen mis-reads an RPO that should have been a give and ends up dirting the ball because there wasn't anything there Drive 6: Ran the same RPO off Dart action that we ran at the beginning of the game and it's executed perfectly again Drive 6: Vertical pass game is covered and Allen doesn't take the checkdown Drive 6: Torrence trips on a slip screen that would have otherwise been a big gainer Drive 7: Man coverage and Allen looks to Diggs/Kincaid side instead of going to his man beater side - had Shakir open on a crack/slant Drive 8: Stack receivers too tight to formation on the Dart RPO which pulls overhang defender into the box when Josh correctly gives the ball - Brown also whiffed his block. Drive 8: Kincaid fumble Drive 9: We finally used Tight Ends to block on the perimeter screen game!!! It's a mixed bag of everything. There were some really good things from Dorsey from a scheme and play calling perspective - there were also some head scratchers. Josh did some really good things, but also did some boneheaded things. Overall execution at times was really good and others really bad.

I don't think so. The pass game is largely carry over from Daboll's system - and a lot of that came from his time at the college level at Alabama. He brought a bunch of schemes that have been run consistently at the college level to the NFL.

It's a slippery slope. Allen has made a ton of big time plays by taking the 1v1 he likes as well. It's one of those "it is what it is" type of deals imo. I think we win more of those plays than we lose which ultimately is all you want. Really good defensive lines are hard to play. Defensive lines have become more and more athletic every year and so the separation in the mismatch gets wider each year. I don't think it's so much that we've been getting worse, but I think it's been more a shift in how defenses have been playing us as of late. We're seeing a lot more pressure than we did early on and we've played a bunch of really well coached front 7 units the past three weeks in New England, Tampa Bay, and Cinci. We put Dawkins on an island all night against one of the league better pass rushers - he's going to lose a few of those match-ups. Torrence is still young and things are happening fast - one extra step is the difference in a perfect pockets vs. a sack in this league. He's been mostly solid on 1v1, but movement has been his struggle and it mostly (from film) looks like it's just processing time. He's a half-step behind. He'll get there. The run game stuff this week was just the Bengals being really freaking good in the run game. Their backers are super impressive in how tight they fit things and how athletic they were. It forced our guys to have to wrap super tight at times and they're just not athletic enough to do it consistently.

Gabe isn't a #1 - the expectations for him on this board are astronomical and I don't really understand why. Gabe is what he is - he is not a guy who will go out there and dominate a game because of his athletic ability. He is not overly fast and he's not twitchy enough to be a good route runner. However, he can be schemed open on 1v1 matchups via option routes which is what has happened when we've seen him have his success. When teams don't allow him to have those opportunities he's not a real factor in games, but he is pulling coverage which should be opening things up for other guys (and it has - Kincaid/Shakir have been the biggest benefactors the past few weeks). As Kincaid continues to develop teams will eventually start pulling coverage his way which will then open things back up for Davis to win his 1v1's. There's a rhyme and reason for why things are happening - you just have to know what you're looking for. What I completely hate about Davis is how he catches the ball. It's so unorthodox and the big reason he drops so many balls.

Let me try to explain as best I can. Yes, there are a ton of route conversions within our pass game. Those route conversions are based on post-snap reads. There are defined depths at which you need to have made a decision by (this is called the decision point). So as an example lets use the easiest version of this, a two option concept - as an outside receiver I'm staring at the defender lined up across from me as the ball is snapped - if i get to 10 yards (my decision point) and I can touch the defender I'll keep going vertical and win with speed - if i can't touch the defender then I'll shut it down and hitch back to the QB. So to your point - our receivers don't have the autonomy to run whatever they want - the options are defined as well as the decision point. Route depths, however, can become an issue when first learning the scheme because of post-snap processing time. Now the example I gave is the very simplest form. Our guys can go out there at times with 5 or more options available to them based on the various coverages they are seeing from the defense and where people are (i.e. overhangs, high safeties, etc.). It takes a ton of reps to nail down, but is extremely difficult to stop if executed correctly because you essentially have a built in answer for every coverage. If you want to learn more about it look up Art Briles and the Deep Choice concept he made a living on while at Baylor.

They were disguising their Man Free look as Quarters pre-snap - that's why he was off 10 yards. The breakdown wasn't because of his depth of alignment, but because he drifted post-snap instead of working his catch technique. If you are playing off man you have to get hands on receivers at the break point to slow them down or you will be beat every time because you're flat footed.

This was just the two not being on the same page. These are the route conversions I spoke about in another thread. If Davis doesn't get top shoulder on the defender off the LoS then he is suppose to shut it down. Davis knew he wasn't going to outrun the corner so he shut it down. Allen has to see that. We've had a bunch of success on this this year - just not on the same page - it happens. What's more frustrating to me about that play was Allen took his backside 1v1 matchup he liked (fine), but it was Man Free - he had 1v1's across the field and took the single who, pre-snap, is running a vertical vs press man on 3rd and 6. Had Diggs and Shakir win their 1v1's to the field for an easy 1st down completion. A lot of times we're playing match coverages, but our guys are playing with zone eyes instead of working to their assignment and then peaking. Poyer, Dodson, and Williams all got caught doing this at times and so their caught flat footed instead of widening to their assignment (whether than be a Seam 2 player or 3 quick player). We're running a bunch of 3 under 3 deep concepts as well (because we haven't been productive rushing 4) to try and generate pressure and that in and of itself makes it tough to cover everything. Yes, we're in man coverage and his man assignment initially stays in to block. He can now add-on to the rush, but he has to rush through his man assignment on his rush (essentially run through his assignment and push him into the QB) in case he releases late (which he did). This is what Edmunds was doing a lot when he rushed and people just thought he was an idiot just running into the RB... this is what happens when you don't account for your assignment.

Defensively The Bad - Underneath defenders repeatedly caught staring at QBs eyes instead of working to a man in zone coverage (Poyer, Dodson, D. Williams, Shaq) - Poor path by Floyd on the naked bootleg allowed Borrow time to get the play off clean - Dodson fit incorrectly multiple times - Played the Stalk & Go incorrectly twice - Add-ons HAVE to rush through their coverage assignment otherwise that touchdown is exactly what happens - Micah caught on the deep ball to Chase that went over top of Dane - people matter! - Poor rush integrity a couple times - Miscommunication multiple times - Dorian busted a coverage on motion and then later him and Douglas busted coverage to the flat (each thought the other had the flat - both hesitate towards it - Williams eventually takes it, but was too late) - Still don't have RZ man coverages in - have to be able to switch off routes in man down there Overall Thoughts - Thought we fit the run really well for the most part all night - Found it interesting we played with a Crash 4 and Wide 9 to the open side all night (curious if that's going to be a staple going forward or just a game plan deal based on the Bengals Tackles) - We're trying to disguise our Hole coverage, but we're tipping it with our Linebacker alignment. Might as well just line up in it since we're not fooling anyone. - Not sure how to feel about us moving our DEs inside and DT out whenever we're running games (we don't do it every time). On one hand it puts our athletes in positions to make plays, but on the other it tips what we're doing (we've done this since McDermott has been here). Noticed it with Floyd line up as a 3tech running a Pirate game - Norman calling for a flag instead of finishing the play on the final run of the game - it's inexcusable Offensively The Bad - Bengals DL dominated the LoS all night. Multiple, just flat out, whiffs on blocks in the run game that would have gone for good gains - Allen holding the ball too long - take the checkdown and give yourself a chance (did better with this as the game went on) - Tex game gave us trouble all night on the right side of our line - Cook tipped the slip screen that Torrence fell on with his alignment - Dawkins got beat multiple times because he overset - We're missing some good potential gains when Allen is choosing his 1v1 backside over working the concept side Overall Thoughts - Thought we did some good things with shifts and motions to scheme guys open - would like to see more of that - Allen did a good job with his eyes multiple times pulling defenders where he wanted them and then throwing off of it - Shakir continues to impress underneath with the option package that Beasley used to run for us - Allen working Diggs/Kincaid side every time we're running mirrored concepts (Again, people matter so it's good from that standpoint, but it's also a tendency) - Q Counter looked really good. I miss the QB run game. It puts so much stress on a defense, but I understand why we've gotten away from it. - Like the creativity of the reverse flea flicker in that shot area. Unfortunately they were in man so there was no play to be had. Would have been nice if it would have just checked to the reverse vs man coverage because it was there. - Davis is what he is - he's not a route runner - he doesn't have twitch. He's phenomenal in the run game for the most part and is versatile in that aspect. Would be nice to play into that more. Play him more condensed - get him matched up on backers within the Hook/Curl area and I think he could excel there (showed some of this vs. the Bucs with our condensed sets) - We are not fast as an offense - Diggs even looked slow on that one he got out on

Florio is a hack. Dude doesn’t know a thing about football. How this guy has been successful of of his click baity nfl rumor mill website blows my mind.

I wouldn’t say regularly. Most teams run route conversions. It seems like a similar clip of miscommunication from most teams. Sometimes there’s grey area and in those situations you have to be on the same page. Allen’s deal is if he doesn’t know for sure he just needs to move on. Kincaid has some - not a ton.

It’s definitely not something that just happens over night in fairness. That’s why our young guys don’t see the field so much early on. It takes a high volume of reps to get it down but even then it can be tough at times. Deep Choice is a fantastic concept and it’s hard as hell to defend, but it does take a while to perfect. If you want to know more about it research what Art Briles did with Baylor offensively. It was all based around Deep Choice.

Yep, and there’s nothing to be had - just take the easy throw and move on. It’s infuriating.

After watching, Dorsey did scheme Diggs open multiple times that game. I don’t think we’re doing enough of it. He relies so heavily on our route conversions getting guys open, but when guys fail to execute them properly it’s an issue, and that’s everyone. Dorsey schemed Diggs into a 1v1 vs a backer and he cut inside vs inside leverage instead of cutting outside like he should have. Josh anticipated the outside cut and was lucky to hold onto the ball when he pumped because he was anticipating the outbreaking route. Josh is also holding onto the ball too long still and not just dumping it down and letting guys get what they get. It puts us behind the sticks or doesn’t give us a chance on a lot of 3rd downs. I’ll make a big post later with all my thoughts from the game.

Appreciate that. Wish I could do more as well. I was considering starting a thread just for breaking down plays you guys wanted to know more on, but wasn’t sure how much it’d be utilized. To be fair to Josh, and for full clarity here, his read is the corner so yeah from the broadcast it looks like he was just staring at Gabe.

No, it's an MOR (Mandatory Outside Release) route. Josh just tried to hit the hole shot into Cover 2 and underthrew it. This has been a recurring theme for him this year.

What was creative about what he said?

Haven’t had a chance to spin through the A22 outside of finding a few snaps that I saw posted on here so I can’t really say for the Bengals game. I will say we do have quite a few concepts that aren’t full field reads (zone beater one side and man beater the other) so the notion that there’s not full field cohesion of routes is real but it’s intentional. May be able to spin through some stuff tomorrow and have a better answer for you. The overhang (conflict defender who was the read) was the DB who folded in to make the tackle. He was so wide initially that the read was essentially predetermined as long as he stayed there. Yeah we’ve run a couple of RPO off of Dart this year both left and right with Dawkins or Brown pulling - can’t remember exactly which games they were in but I remember commenting on it on here when they did. Gabe got a really good gain on one of them at or close to the High RZ area on one of them.

With the increase in the RPO game teams don't teach attack steps to LBs anymore. Instead they'll just bounce and trigger late vs the run.

He should have - they were in slide protection. Morse looks lost... They're not pretending to be an option - they are an option. It's an RPO. We've gotten a lot of mileage out of this concept this year. What's concerning to me is why did we reduce the splits down? They're playing 3 over 2 so there's no play to be had on the pass - the give is the correct call - but we're doing ourselves no favors with the stack that tight to the formation.

This specific play is Allen just taking the 1v1 matchup. This is what I've tried to get across earlier in the year - if Allen likes the backside 1v1 matchup he's going to take it regardless of the three man concept. Saw this a lot this game on the backside of 3x1.

I’ve certainly said in the past that we were running Dart and not Draw in instances we were running Dart. There’s a number of concepts we’re running from Gun and the vast majority of them are not Draw. As far as the shotgun vs. under center debate about the RB hitting it with speed from under center. That’s all well and good if you’re running ISO that hits straight downhill, but we’ve been running a ton of gap scheme that hits off-tackle. It’s timing based - not run downhill as fast as you can.

Never said it was Dart. In fact I’ve said in another thread it was Duo. So, no, it was not draw… Additionally they could have run the same concept from under center and it still wouldn’t have been successful because Gabe got blown up.

If we want to get into specifics Shotgun and Pistol are two totally different things, and we haven't run a draw at the 1 yard line... ever.

It's a quick hitter on a rub route - give your guy a chance. Allen isn't reading coverage after he gets it based on the initial motion.