JaCrispy
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Posts posted by JaCrispy
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I got exactly what I wanted this offseason. I'll never forget the child on Christmas Eve-type giddiness I felt when it was reported that Pegula had asked Whaley & the scouts to come in for a meeting the next morning. And then Santa delivered! I don't know if we'll make the playoffs this season, and somehow, I'm ok with that. For the first time in 10+ years, I'm actually excited about the future of this franchise.
My Christmas came when Rex got fired...it was all I could do to hold back tears of joy...And it's been one feel good story after another...fingers crossed.
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I see lots of threads griping about this or that and I am curious who, along with me, loves what the Bills are doing? I love the new approach, I have wanted this for well over a decade.
Clean house and bring in a fresh new HC with a background of working with successful HC's on his way up and in successful programs. A GM who shares his vision. Cleaning out the old way of scouting and whatnot and bringing in new, experienced, talent to pretty much scrap what we have done for dozens of years now.
HC, GM etc doing an honest, 3rd party per say, evaluation of the talent on this team with NO Ties what so ever. They have clear systems, they know the types of overall football players they want AND who will fit their system. They aren't going to sit here and wait years on "potential" either you can and will perform or you are gone. That is how it should be.
I love everything that is going on at OBD these days and the direction they are going and don't care who they cut, trade or whatever to get their team that they want. This is very long past due.
For the first time as long as I can remember, I finally have some legit hope this team will finally turn around. Anyone else with me in this?
I definitely feel the same- a lot of thinking outside the box- it's nice purging our demons- hopefully we will finally have success
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For a second rounder next year? Pull that trigger til the gun goes *click*.
Bold move AND clearing out remnants of the past regime? Love it.
For a second rounder next year? Pull that trigger til the gun goes *click*.
Bold move AND clearing out remnants of the past regime? Love it.
Make it two 2nd rounders, where one is conditional and can become a 1st rounder and you have a deal.
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You can't be serious Shirley. You said the Bills have been dumb with getting value from their expiring contracts and should follow the example of smart teams. And the best examples come from.......the Bills. And I am the one grasping at straws.
We have talked about the Pats, so how about we start with the other "smart " teams. From a general perspective that usually seems to mean:
Steelers
Seahawks
Packers
Giants
Cards
Ravens
Broncos
Chiefs
I tried my best to include the generally accepted "smart" teams and may have missed a couple. Go for it.
I am serious...and don't call me Shirley...
I say we just agree to disagree...no point in ruining a beautiful rainy afternoon...
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Smart team and smart trade are 2 different things and smart trade is all that matters. The Browns got a 1st round pick for Trent Richardson. The Bills got LeSean McCoy for Kiko. Why do other moves those teams make impact whether or not those were good decisions? It shouldn't. The team that makes the trade is totally irrelevant. The result of the trade is what is judged. Good teams make bad moves and bad teams make good moves. There are a bunch of cases that you can point to (those 2 in particular) where trading away the young guy was ABSOLUTELY the right decision.
That isn't the case with Watkins because you will never get comparable value and have plenty of money to keep him. In a bunch of those cases the guy was traded because they couldn't retain him.
I agree that it would seem the trade would dictate whether the team was a smart team for making the trade or not- and not the history of decisions the team has made.
Time out for this TBD public service announcement. Sir, you are being trolled
You're both right. TYPICALLY, teams don't trade away top talent before their rookie contract expires. Sometimes, however, there can be good reasons to do so and get as much in return as possible before they walk for nothing. Also, I'm not a huge fan of using the franchise tag. Especially if the player does not want to play here. I'm not saying this is the case with SW, but if it is, buh bye Sammy.
I think my mistake might have been saying top players in their "rookie contract" in my post instead of just saying top players being traded in any contract...
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You answered a different question than the one I asked. He said smart teams trade away their young star players. I asked for examples of smart teams that did this. Your examples label the Bills and Browns as the smartest of the smart.
The ever genius Pats traded away picks but also picked up guys at similar contract stages by sending picks. At best this labels them as neutral because they clearly don't have a policy of simply picking up compensation for rookie contracts.
So that leaves you with the Panthers as the only viable "smart team" employing this "policy". And this "policy" is based on one trade, albeit to a receiving team you also labeled as smart.
You're going to have to do better than that to prove this is some sort of trend set in motion by smart teams.
You answered a different question than the one I asked. He said smart teams trade away their young star players. I asked for examples of smart teams that did this. Your examples label the Bills and Browns as the smartest of the smart.
The ever genius Pats traded away picks but also picked up guys at similar contract stages by sending picks. At best this labels them as neutral because they clearly don't have a policy of simply picking up compensation for rookie contracts.
So that leaves you with the Panthers as the only viable "smart team" employing this "policy". And this "policy" is based on one trade, albeit to a receiving team you also labeled as smart.
You're going to have to do better than that to prove this is some sort of trend set in motion by smart teams.
Ok...I see what is happening here...
4merper4mer...I respect your point of view...but it is starting to seem like u are grasping at straws here, just for the sake of arguing...when u are provided with an answer, u seem to try to pick apart every minute detail, so that it never seems to satisfy you...and that is fine- it is your prerogative...but I neither have the time, nor the energy to play this little cat and mouse game.
Answers were given...u accept them or you don't...either way, just move on.
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1- everyone knows about the injuries - I disagree. I doubt that anyone outside of a very small number are completely tuned in with where the injury stands. It is somewhere between 100% healed and 100% hopeless, I'll give you that. Either way a trade partner would justifiably give him a full workup and paint the gloomiest possible picture to lower our compensation.
2- although it hasn't been reported, i feel he may want a certain amount of money in his next contract that the Bills may not want to pay because of those injuries. Whether this is true or false, picking up the 5th year option was the right move.
3- he may want to go to another team that has a better QB or has a pass oriented offense, where he can potentially put up better numbers. This is complete conjecture and if true does not put him on both sides of the negotiating table. He occupies one side of it and the Bills occupy the other.
4- I don't want a repeat of not getting anything for our top talent if they walk- especially in this case. Again, a 5th year pickup was the appropriate response whether you desire to keep him or trade him.
Was this post your way of avoiding defending your false premise about how all the smart teams are trading away guys like Watkins?
Not at all....I simply thought you had been provided with the examples of different players being traded and we had moved on. Was there something else you were looking for?
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Horribly.
40% of your genius comes from the Bills, the very team being excoriated to begin with. A different 40% has NE as its destination, and they are the shining pillar of genius. So outside of Jones, you are completely backwards. Maybe you are on to something though. Maybe we should trade to acquire talent nearing the end of its rookie contract. That what geniuses do clearly. And dummies like us trade it away.
Edit: You can throw in Trent Richardson if you'd like but of course you'd have to call the previous Browns regime geniuses to do it.
well, clearly it sounds like u are on the side of keeping Sammy- and that's ok...it is a very understandable position...he is a great talent.
I'm open to trading him for a few reasons:
1- everyone knows about the injuries
2- although it hasn't been reported, i feel he may want a certain amount of money in his next contract that the Bills may not want to pay because of those injuries.
3- he may want to go to another team that has a better QB or has a pass oriented offense, where he can potentially put up better numbers.
4- I don't want a repeat of not getting anything for our top talent if they walk- especially in this case
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Patriots with Chandler Jones, Saints with Brandin Cooks, Panthers with Kony Ealy, Marshawn Lynch (ducks) and Kiko Alonso
How'd I do?
Not bad at all Kirby...I was thinking Jamie Collins and Chandler Jones...and I wasn't sure about Matt Cassel...and these are just guys we are trying to come up with on rookie contracts...no mention of top talent on 2nd or 3rd contracts, which would obviously make it a great deal more.
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In your humble opinion smart teams trade away top talent before expiration of a players rookie contract. Can you cite 5 example of this happening?
Not off the top of my head...
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Except the Pats always win. We are in an endless loop of rebuilding because we keep losing our good players.
I feel part of the reason we constantly rebuild (other than the obvious of never having a QB and constantly changing HC) is that, up to this point, our FO hasn't learned how to work the FA/salary cap era of the NFL.
They have to understand that no matter how great they draft- how many great players they accumulate, they simply can't keep everyone because of how the NFL is set up...the smart teams understand this, and before rookie contracts are up, some top players are dealt for compensation (perhaps a 1st or 2nd rounders) which in turn makes it easier to replenish the stable with top talent a lot quicker...by not doing this (like the Bills have yet to learn) it sets the team back further- taking even longer to build up the team with top talent again...The modern NFL is all about timing...you have to have certain players at certain positions with certain contracts, all playing during the same period of time to be successful imo. If you don't have that synchronicity, trading top players for compensation before you lose them for nothing seems like the optimal choice until you have achieved that balance on the roster imo.
Take the Gilmore situation for example...Once Gilmore had made his demands clear last year, which was much greater than the Bills were willing to offer, the smart move would have been to trade him during or prior to the draft instead of letting him play out his final year and then walking for nothing...the extra top pick the Bills would have received could have been used to replace Gilmore, while their original 1st rounder could have been used on another position...However, the "win now" mode that Rex was in clouded his judgement and he probably didn't care about building for the present and the future. Gilmore eventually walked, and the Bills were left without a top CB, having to burn their only top pick on replacing him.
If this rumor about a potential Sammy trade is real, it shows a great shift in the thinking of the Bills organization for the first time in its history...of all the things, it is this shift in thinking that gives me the greatest hope for the future with this team.
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Subatomic particles lolTry it this way...
Pick #9(2014) + pick #19(2015) + pick #115(2015) = pick #4(2014.) 3 picks, count 'em THREE, total picks to receive ONE pick
Pick #4(2014) = Sammy Watkins
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Some believe draft picks are like having the God particle.
Gotta luv the dog days of the offseason...
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Well, I always keep my subatomic particles in a box under my bed. It's just easier when you know where to look.
This argument makes about that much sense. We know what we got, and what we gave. I refuse to look any deeper than that.
I know...just trying to break up a dead end debate with a different take that might be a little more light hearted.
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At this point you've got to ask yourself why you care about winning this one so badly.
yeah...it seems people have dug in and you're not going to change anyone's mind at this point.
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Why is this so hard?
I'm reminded of the process of trying to locate subatomic particles...and just when you think you have located one, it has already moved to a different location...I don't think there will ever be a correct answer for this problem because both sides are right and wrong at the same time.
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No, they couldn't have netted two. Let's check your equation.
So they got one first. Even though KC traded both #27 and and first in 2018, we only got one first?
You actually answered the exact question you quoted with a question, instead of an answer. The banter is less cute and impressive when you're wrong.
what if I told you that duality is an illusion...
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...I find it woefully disconcerting that you have in such a wholesale manner discounted the value of such gibberish, a true insult to the posting brethren.....
Well, I'm sure you'll find a way to get over it...especially when you realize I would have to be insulting myself as well, by default. So, for your own benefit, try not to think too hard about it, and enjoy your holiday weekend. I know I am...
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edit:
never mind, I read it out of context.
my bad.
we are on a message board with thousands of pages of gibberish...believe me, we've all been there
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It's been an issue with Julio Jones as well as Dez Bryant, but I don't see the Falcons or Cowboys getting rid of either.
both also have franchise QBs and are in "win now" mode...there is a difference...we are not close like they are.
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Its a Valid argument.
If it was Robert Woods, and yes we have had that discussion too, it we be less important.
But when you have number one in skill set, buy a country mile, who is on the field but less than 100% or not getting full reps? i think its kind of important from a Coaching perspective.
There is no question he was not used to his potential . And often used as a decoy on routes
I might be in line with this thinking.
Tough call though from the outside looking in
Its a Valid argument.
If it was Robert Woods, and yes we have had that discussion too, it we be less important.
But when you have number one in skill set, buy a country mile, who is on the field but less than 100% or not getting full reps? i think its kind of important from a Coaching perspective.
There is no question he was not used to his potential . And often used as a decoy on routes
I might be in line with this thinking.
Tough call though from the outside looking in
no harm in having an opposing view as both sides have legit arguments..
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How awesome would it be to have 3 First round picks?
Watkins is damaged, let's get what we can, and build this team.
Imo
preach!!! Leroi
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terrible take. what nfl team does not go for it?
so McD holds a meeting just before the season starts and lets all his players know, that in his first year as HC he is sorry to inform them they're not going for it this year?
what a real loser mentality the above post generates and frankly, will not happen simply because coaches and players do not go in to a season with the mind set they're just not going for it.
thought I heard it all but this takes the cake!
well, obviously you are entitled to your opinion, but this is so over-the-top ridiculous, i debated whether even dignifying it with a response...
Nobody ever said or suggested the part of your post in bold?...no wonder you thought it took the cake- you completely made it up to justify your opinion.
McD will try to win this year, but he understands his chances for success are likely low due to the limitations of his team...of course he would never say this because, being as a first year HC, he wouldn't want to lose the team...therefore, like he said he will try to win now, while also strategizing for the future- which, in this case, might mean trying to get something for Sammy while he still can.
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They're not in the same position as the Pats from the perspectives of a franchise QB they have in Brady, overall talent, or cap space. Not exactly a fair comparison, but they're doing what they can given certain constraints. We all know they're not championship caliber, but they are not wink wink......trying to be bad.
EXACTLY!
This is my point, and this is why it is the perfect comparison, imo...The Bills not being in a similar position as teams like the Pats is exactly why I don't really feel the Bills are going for it this year...the Bills are basically just filling their roster...they are not in position to try and win this year with top acquisitions....they are simply getting bodies that fit the schemes they are running, and then the new FO will access the situation after the season imo....this year is a wash, in which McD and the FO get a pass...next year is when they start building imo. This is a "see what we have" year imo.
Rumor- Bills will entertain trade offers for Watkins?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Hey Jeff, if the Bills were going to trade Sammy over the summer, what would you think if the compensation were two 2nd round picks- with one of them being conditional...so basically two 2nd rounders at face value, but potentially a 1st and a 2nd rounder?
exactly