BuffaloSol
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Posts posted by BuffaloSol
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7 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:
Here are the frequently cited media analysis studies, they focus on broadcaster commentary, and are pretty through. If you pop the names into google scholar, the article abstracts will come up. Alot of them are paywalled, unfortunately, but can be obtained at local university libraries.
R.E Rainville and Mcormack, 1977
J. Rada, 1996
Billings, 2004
Research goes back to the 70's and the results are pretty clear. The gist is that black qbs, and players in general, have their success frequently attributed to their innate athleticism, and that white qbs and players have their success attributed to intelligence.
There are no papers on whether Mcdermott is a racist or not, so the other poster arguing with me will likely be dissapointed.
Well a couple things, I read the abstract of the two more recent ones, because I'm not paying 50 bucks to access the article. And read the 70s article.
First off the 1977 article that states white players are more likely to be spoken of positively than than the black players. That time period was never defended by me and it was so close to the 60's I'm surprised it's not worse. But using that to back up your idea that the Buffalo media is racist, is a false equivalency.
Second the two Abstracts from the late 90s and early 2000s looks at black vs white qbs, it states there seems to be a tendency for announcers to compliment black qbs for their athleticism and white qbs for their intelligence. Now even though I haven't seen all the data, if this is your best form of racism and a way to prove the media or coaches are racist you need to go back to the drawing board. They are literally complementing different players and you say that is proof of racism......plus you think this js proof that the organization, Buffalo fans, and the Buffalo media are racist? Also, should white people be upset that they aren't being touted as athletic and only intelligent?
TENDENCIES DON'T MEAN RACISM-remember there is a difference between saying all do this or statically higher amount of a group do this.
Not that you care, but whites do tend to score higher on the wunderlich and blacks do tend to be more athletic at the combine. It's a fact, 100% fact statically proven. The wunderlich does have an intelligence atribute value even if it's overall use to grade players next level success is debatable.
What you will probably say is the wunderlich is racist towards blacks that attend the same colleges the other players do for 3 years minimum, but what you won't say is the combine is racist towards whites that attend the same college for 3 years minimum.
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9 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:
Your accusing people of saying things they didn't say and demanding proof for remarks that no one made.
So, I changed your mind is what your saying, good I'm glad.
Just so we are clear you are saying that you didn't refute these things i said.
-Racism did not play apart in how Tyrod was handled by the media/fans or the organization.
-Racism is not a factor in the organization or NFL`s evaluation of Lamar Jackson.
-It is wrong to make that accusation with no proof, because of how powerful an accusation it is.
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3 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:
He said none of those things. Lots of sensitive folk on this board are misinterpreting the posters intentions and trying to shut down the conversation.
Weird I ask for proof and you are unable to back it up, but your reaction does fit the identity politics theory. Oh, and people are sharing different opinions, you just disagree with what they are saying and don't have anyway of backing your beliefs up.
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13 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:
Even that's problematic. Being attached to Jeff Tedford (coach of Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, and AJ Feeley) led to Aaron Rodgers dropping 20 some-odd draft slots.
Lesson: Always, always judge the player and disregard the rep of the school and the system. The latter path is lazy thinking.
I agree but it still has more relevance than the name of the school.
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5 minutes ago, rodneykm said:
Same here...which isn't saying much for either of them really.
...yeah but that's a pretty solid track record of suckage from one school.
Still it has no real substantial weight when looking at Dsrnolds draft stock. You can look at Helton and see his two qbs in the NFL Kessler and Barkely to get a feel. But those guys were mid round project qbs from the get go and both have found backup rolls in the league.
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25 minutes ago, buffaloaggie said:
I'm not a big fan of Darnold. Carson Palmer is likely the only USC exception. Otherwise, you have Matt Leinart, Mark Sanchez, Todd Marinovich, Matt Barkley, Rob Johnson, Matt Cassel, Rodney Peete, Pat Haden, John David Booty, Cody Kessler, Sean Salisbury, Paul McDonald and Vince Evans. Not much NFL success.
If it was the same coach and system the whole time you would be on to something, but these using a false equivalency like the schools name should not be used to judge a QB.
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6 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:
This is a thread about identity politics and quarterbacks, I'm not going into a TT sucks thread and calling people racist. Your going into a thread for fans concerned about racism and saying that they are delusional and disrespectful. Its a pretty square thing to say, in my opinion, and not keeping with the love, peace, and empathy that Jerry was all about.
It's delusional and disrespectful to assume racism of huge portions of people with zero proof. You are not just concerned about it, you and some others on here are saying it is so with zero proof, even when you try to play connect the dots things are easily explained. Show me the proof that McDermott or a large portion of fans/media based decisions on Tyrod or Lamar skin color and I'll take back the delusional and disrespectful thing.
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39 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:
There are studies that back both of these points up. Scouts will use different language when describing black players and white players, even when speaking positively. The problem is that alot of people think that being racist just means using the n#### word.
The "study" was a just a searchable database that only seperated results based on white or black, and allowed you to search for words used by scouts to describe players. And although there was no real context or much of a real significant statistical difference. Example of the context that was lacking- was the player a QB that more often is white and more likely to be called a leader because he is a qb. Another example- was the player a running back that is more likely to be black called agile because he is a running back. Then if the prospects were all qbs just because they are dedcribed differently like dual-threat doesnt make the scout racist or wrong. Sorry I just debunked another "source" of Racism even though you really want it to be so.
I got an idea. You should set up a go fund me account for the black NFL prospects based on that though. I can't even imagine what those poor football players being spoken of positively in different ways, most likely due to position, must be going through.
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3 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:
Well shucks, mister. I really value your informed opinions on race relations in the United states and would hate to see you go. Quick question, do those who associate the Grateful Dead (and their fans) with peace, love, and tolerance for opposing views bother you. Since your borrowing one of their logos for your avatar pick, do you know what irony means, or are you just into cool pictures of skulls?
Is it still "cool" to act superior to others based on your political beliefs. Because although you are trying to seem "hip" you come off as someone throwing a hissy fit because other people don't agree that racism has anything to do with Lamar or Tyrod.
You know why most rational people don't think that Race plays a part......because most people enjoy facts and sources when you call a whole group of people racist. Then also make assumptions that the staff and decision makers at OBD make decisions about personnel the color of their skin, again with no proof. I know you'll try and rationalize it like OP but, sorry for me it's not okay to cry racism and point fingers without proof.
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26 minutes ago, Scorp83 said:
Sad... so sad... but hey that's your opinion
What do you think my Opinion is and what do you think is Sad?
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24 minutes ago, CamboBill said:
Thanks, I understand your point. The Tyrod benching was one of the most embarrassing days I can remember in recent Bills history. I understand how bad he was in preceeding weeks. but still .... I am generally optimistic about the McBean Era ... but this was a bad day for them.
I suspect we share the same sentiments as to current presidency although to be fair, the alternative was awful too. I won't say more here because we should keep it football specific.
Our countries presidency is a joke we had the two worst candidates last election it was major corruption vs major dbag, but I think most people would rather live in the US over Cambodia(I hope you don't take offense to that).
So, if Tyrod was white would it be okay to try a rookie with potential after your starter, with an option to release him at the end of the year, threw for 56 yards and a pick the week before and got blown out by the Jets a week before that. They put Tyrod back in during the second half of that game after they realized Peterman was not the answer, again how in the world is that race related?
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5 minutes ago, CamboBill said:
Race is an important topic as long as people do not rush to conclusions either way. As to Alle's floor ... I considered hackenbug but thought that too unfair
It's not that important though, the color of someone's skin does not effect how they play football. Race is a crutch in your arguement, and. Most scouts have a first round grade on Lamar and he ranges anywhere from the third to the fifth best qb in this draft class, why does that have anything to do with race.
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10 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:
And this is pretty much the state of identity politics as its occuring in the United States at the moment. There are people who feel that the US is exceptional and that critiques are unwarranted, and there are alot of people, like Mr. Rosen, who feel that the time has come to speak out.
You are proving your own point concerning identity politics, you are making the assumption that only "Mr. Rosen" is "speaking out." Critiques are clearly warranted and happen all the time in the US, just because you don't like someone's belief or critique does not make it less of a critique. Here is the definition of Identity politics-a tendency for people of a particular religion, race, social background, etc., to form exclusive political alliances, moving away from traditional broad-based party politics.
(you are also clearly making the assumption that I am on one of two sides of the main US political identities. I am not.)
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16 minutes ago, horned dogs said:
Keep up the Anti-Rosen campaign, It is working with teams around the NFL....He's falling right into our laps!
You think Thurmanator has that much power? Hmm
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Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:
It is ironic that people forget about the DV case. But he is such a likable guy who has had a very tough life!!!
His DV should keep him out as long as the zeek Elliott suspension if he ever comes back.
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Just now, MURPHD6 said:
See very sensitive.
See very delusional and disrespectful.
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1 minute ago, MURPHD6 said:
There are alot of Bills fans outside of Buffalo and the United States who feel that Tyrod was unfairly treated by the coaching staff and a portion of the local fan base and that the situation was not disimilar to what happened to Warren moon. The fact that the US president wants to build a wall around the country does not help this situation, especially from the perspective of fans abroad. Plenty of lical fans will deny that race has anything to do with it and try to silence any one who dares to raise the question of race as well, largely because they don't identify as being racist, and are either unaware or refuse to ackknowledge the subtler ways that racism works. They don't speak for the entire local or international fan base, however. They are just the loudest and most sensitive. And I say sensitive because even the suggestion of racism makes them fly off the handle. Sadly, such is the state of the US today.
Most people outside of Buffalo are not as delusional as you. Most people prefer to not always play the victim and live here in the real world, where you question someone's ability without needing the crutch of racism. And to call the Tyrod Taylor situation situation similar to Warren Moon shows how disrespectful and delusional some people are.
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17 minutes ago, CamboBill said:
Thanks. I like Rosen too but fear he might be the next Sam Bradford.
My rankings:
1) D'arnold floor: Andy Dalton Ceiling: Eli Manning
2) Rosen flloor: Sam Bradford Ceiling: Phil Rivers
3) Jackson: Floor: Vince Young Ceiling: Steve Young
4) Allen Floor: B Bortles Ceiling: Ben Rothlusberger
5) Mayfield. Floor: Case Keenum Ceiling: D Brees
But I could live with any.
It's a shame you had to bring up race so early instead of just comparing players to other NFL QBS. I don't agree on the rankings I'd go D'arnold, Mayfield, Rosen, Allen, Jackson; but I do agree on most of the ceiling/floor comparisons except Allen's floor(not sure who) and ceiling(Aaron Rodgers) and Jackson's floor(RG3)
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Just now, nucci said:
My point is the owners do and say things that are offensive as well.....if you want to have a smart ass conversation I'm ready. I'm not defending Kaepernick but the kneeling doesn't bother me. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of signing Manziel
Hypocrisy of looking at Manziel workout at a proday? Did Kapernick go to a pro day to show of his ability and no one showed up or something? It's a business not a fairytale land. Kapernick was bad for business and kneeling was only part of it, the cop pig socks and the Castro thing really affected his value as a backup with starter potential on teams like Baltimore and Miami. It was way more than kneeling. I was in the Military and happen to think he has a right to do it, but he also needs to understand there are consequences. I mostly dislike him for the praise of Castro and the Pig cop socks, both are child like and despicable stances.
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10 minutes ago, nucci said:
the same owner that said,....NFL can’t have ‘inmates running the prison’?
Didn't know he owned the Ravens and the Texans. Nice try though.
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God forbid someone compare Jackson to RG III, because you think it's not fair to compare a black qb to another black qb. Seriously are we this fragile and obsessed with race that we can not make a comparison of two similar players.
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1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:
And some despise Mayfield because they hate little people!
(Exactly, this is a great point)
Also, some despise Allen because he has a strong Arm like Jeff George and athletic like Jake Locker or Blake Bortles. These comparisons are clearly racist, ugh only comparing him to White QB`s?!?!.......It's 2018 people
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4 hours ago, QCity said:
We're going to see goal line formations where RBs lower their head and drive into the endzone, only to get it called back and assessed a 15-yd penalty?
Can't wait for the first game to be decided on that call.
Yep and how weird is it that we can call it today; it will have a game changing affect in our game vs the Patriots. Guaranteed.
39 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:Does this rule apply to NE or are they exempt as they are with offensive holding?
They are exempt, can confirm.
4 hours ago, fridge said:I can't wait for the refs to call this pretty steady for the first 3 weeks, completely forget about it, then call it multiple times on us in a row late in the season forcing us to miss the playoffs.
Done with the NFL if this is the case.
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7 hours ago, Jamie Muellers Ghost said:
Because everybody needed to go party in Jacksonville you may not have a choice.
We would only be in slightly better position if we didn't make the playoffs, this is dumb, real issue was not trading with Houston the much better choice for a lower draft pick.
QBs, NFL Draft, Identity Politics (New Poster)
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
"the 2011 quarterback study, for instance, found that African-American QBs average a score of 20.2, while white QBs average 27.7." Are statistics racist? It's a perception because there is truth in reality, but that perception does not have an affect on the way qbs are drsfted now? Nope they all take the wunderlich and more importantly meet with coaches. Players like Vince Young even with a lower wunderlich score are taken early all the time. You wouldn't call Vince Young, Jeff George, or Terry Bradshaw intelligent, but apparently it would be racist to call one of them dumb.