JC2002
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Posts posted by JC2002
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I don't think any answers are coming in the next 4 weeks . It is all uncharted territory and invaluable experience for this team no matter what happens . The offense once we decided we are a passing team became a work in progress . Who puts an 8 week old passing attack up against the experienced and elite attacks of Peyton,Aaron ,and Tom . We know they are better now and they should be .
Now is the time when adjustments get made though and so you will see who can make them the quickest from a coaching standpoint and who can execute efficiently and from drive to drive from a player's standpoint.
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Denver, Green Bay, and New England remaining on the schedule. Seriously, the chance of making the playoffs is not realistic to anyone with common sense.
to be honest anyone with common sense would know that nothing is a given in the game of football and its not over until its over .
A defeatist would give up before the games are even played
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4-0 hahaha who knows ? but it all starts this week . This is the NFL so I dont chalk up anything as some automatic loss but we have to be focused and ready to take advantage of our opportunities . If we do that we will have a chance to win it .
From a coaching standpoint knowing who we had to face in back to back weeks I would not be surprised if they held some things back.in order to throw out some wrinkles this week and next week.
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I think ultimately in matchups against teams like the Pats ,Packers ,and Broncos its about taking advantages of your opportunities when they present themselves. These teams don't make a ton of mistakes so when they do you have to take full advantage.
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Against the Browns, Watkins was targeted 9 times, caught 3. Of the rest, I remember him having his hands on 1, that arguably could have been caught, although it would have been a great catch. 2 were intercepted. The rest were not close. This is Orton forcing the ball to Sammy along with Orton's inaccuracy, not Watkins dropping balls.
and obviously the QB is at fault EVERY SINGLE TIME . I dont get why people cant simply say what it really is and that BOTH are at fault and they BOTH need to get it together .
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true, but Id attribute that more to our problems on offense. Any defense will eventually cave to a good offense if their own offense isnt getting them any relief
or to the fact that the defense gave up TWO tds of over 40 yards and they made a 53 yard fg . I would consider the tds a fluke.
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The Bills are 16th in scoring because they hung a combined 81 points on the Jets. That's 30% of their total scoring output in 16.7% of their schedule. A wild aberration.
Also, you keep talking about folks wanting a top ten passing attack, but just now, you've shifted the focus to total scoring. As I've said, this team needs to score more than 1 offensive TD per game if they want to win down the stretch. In 3 of the last 4 games, they've failed to do so. Asking for more than 1 TD is not asking for a top ten passing attack. That's what I'm saying.
Yes, balance will help; so will effectively executing. There have been many times that plays were there to be made, but the execution failed.
unless you are going to go through every team and say well they only scored because .... than that type of reasoning just doesn't fly when you try and apply it to just ONE team .
I did not shift focus just illustrating where your ONE more td per game puts us and wondering why you feel its not too much to ask when putting our entire situation in context ?
We averaged 1.9 offensive tds per game last year and we average 1.9 again this year so far . The difference is that last year the running game carried the load and this year its the passing game carrying the load so Im simply stating that an uproar in this thread every week is a bit overdone simply because the running game has been mia .I just don't get where the expectation that we should be passing for 2-3 tds per game comes when the entire attack is one big work in progress.
Until the rushing attack gets fixed to complaint that the offense is not scoring enough and needs to score is expectation of a top ten offense because thats what it would it be if it did . We have played 12 games and 8 of the 12 have come against teams who defenses have ranked in the top 15 in ppg .
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You're reasoning is fine; it's the straw man of folks asking for a "top ten passing attack" with which I take issue. Do you really think that scoring more than 1 TD per game is asking for a top ten passing attack? No, no it isn't. If you can show me 1 poster that's asked for anything remotely close to a top 10 passing offense, I'll be happy to apologize and acquiesce.
We are 16th in scoring this year one more td per game puts us squarely in the top ten in scoring . That little uptick that you think is nothing moves us up dramatically and why do you think that with running game, line issues ,and our 9 week old passing attack that its that easy ? Miami is 10th in scoring but does anyone think Miami has a super dynamic offense ? No but they run the ball and keep things balanced we have no balance and every team ahead of is further along in there passing games . The true elite passing attacks are 3-4+ years in making now why would expect that out of our passing attack now ?
We are exactly 37 points behind 10th place Miami in scoring and the argument seems to be that Orton and his arm, should make up all the differences instead of of the top 5 rushing attack that has disappeared.
We all want to see improvement in the scoring but without some type of balance its going to be extremely difficult
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Why do you keep insisting that folks are saying this? I haven't seen it once.
because thats where the perfection people are asking for out of a passing offense 9 games old takes it.
People are demanding a top ten passing offense without any rational reasoning for it .
We are 16th in points now (22nd) last year and I still believe we should be scoring more than we have been when we get into the redzone .However I find it crazy to put it all on something 9 weeks old when the fact is we had the #2 rushing attack last year and its now 24th. That plays a huge part in the passing game especially for team that is trying to ESTABLISH a passing attack which is what we are trying to do despite the ones who believe we should be elite based on well.....nothing .
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so a few dropped passes from a passing offense weeks in the making or a the fall from #2 in rushing to #24 hmmm which is hurting the offense more ?
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Good stuff
Alas, (for me) the wrong guy / player's under the microscope IMO. I look back at that game and have to think typical Bills this year. We KNOW Kyle Orton isn't an elite QB, and he never was or will be. What he is is an experienced veteran QB who can read the defensive alignment, adjust the protections, and change the play if needed. Orton has a decent arm, and if given proper time in the pocket he usually does a good job.
Now, that said lets look at what he was facing this week in the Cleveland secondary. CB Joe Haden who will take away the #1 WR by himself, and even Buster Skrine is a decent CB. Then Cleveland is a middle of the pack defense overall, #18 total, #8 pass defense, #29th in rush defense.
So any knowledgeable person would surmise that the best way to beat the Browns would be with a stout run game, and keep the passing to a minimum. Low, and behold the Bills come out throwing just like they have since the Chargers game.
1st series, 4 plays, 17 yards pass, run, pass, pass, Punt--three passes, one run
2nd series, 4 plays, 9 yards run, pass, pass, pass, Punt --three passes, one run
3rd series, 7 plays, 55 yards pass, pass, run, pass, run, pass, pass, INT--five passes, two runs
4th series, 3 plays, 4 yards run, pass, run, Punt--one pass, two runs * This series after gaining 9 yards on the first two plays the last run was up the middle (FJ) on third down for no gain. Penalty delay of game on punter -5.
5th series, 3 plays, 6 yards pass,(penalty - pass interference) run, pass, time out- drop back Sacked -9 yards, Punt- three passes, one run
6th series, 6 plays, 11 yards pass, pass, pass, spike ball, missed FG
Then during the 3rd quarter with a lead the Bills start running the ball more often with some success, and just like magic Kyle Orton starts to play a whole bunch better when he isn't forced to shoulder the entire offense on his own. In one series in the 3rd the Bills actually went run, run, run, pass.
START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT 12:27 1 01:33 BUF 29 4 17 Punt 04:51 1 01:35 BUF 20 4 9 Punt 01:44 1 03:45 BUF 38 7 55 Interception 07:24 2 02:11 BUF 27 3 4 Punt 03:34 2 01:48 BUF 25 3 6 Punt 01:02 2 01:02 CLE 46 6 11 Missed FG 15:00 3 00:41 BUF 20 3 5 Interception 12:13 3 04:09 BUF 16 8 84 Touchdown 06:18 3 02:41 BUF 38 5 20 Punt 01:42 3 03:01 CLE 48 6 17 Field Goal 12:59 4 00:58 CLE 21 4 5 Field Goal 08:47 4 05:15 BUF 20 10 64 Field Goal 02:43 4 02:16 CLE 23 4 6 Field Goal
http://espn.go.com/n...ameId=400554321
I think we get the point here that the Bills didn't even really attempt to run the ball more often until they had an established lead. Then they found out they could run the ball, and did pretty well against that 29th ranked run defense. 30 rushes for 106 yards, a 3.5 YPC average.
A defensive score also helped the team get over 20 points against a team with a winning record.
Isn't amazing how most of the fan base and the coaching staff have totally changed in that regard and now suddenly expect us in a matter of weeks to develop a top ten passing attack . We have gone from the #2 rushing attack to the #24 and are now expecting Orton to win every game with his arm not some of the games but every single game and we are upset at Orton for not being able to do it when we know he is not a elite QB.
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if it wasn't for Robert Woods spectacular catches, Orton would be back on the bench.
well there a would be a whole lotta qbs being benched then because the catches Woods made are the norm for every single top passing attack in the league.
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D. Thomas and Decker struggled with Orton as well. Maybe the guy who has played on 5 teams is holding back the all world receiver.
No they did not you are just making stuff up Brandon Lloyd went to the pro bowl as did Brandon marshall before him . Now Sammie is an all world receiver ? lol
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Interesting take. I think Orton has gotten a little gun-shy, because he was hit a LOT during his first few games in the lineup. The line has actually started to play much better, but he may be rushing things.
I have not evaluated the film and this is just a gut reaction. If there is some truth to it, hopefully he gets over it quickly.
or maybe hes gotten gun shy because everyone cries over turnovers and going into the bye week people said simply dont turn it over and we will win more games .
We have no run game and people want to pass for tds but dont want turnovers or sacks even with the knowledge that the Online is not that great
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The Bottom Line:
The Buffalo Bills do not have a quarterback. The Patriots have a quarterback. The Dolphins have a quarterback. The Jets, like the Bills, do not have a quarterback. Without a quarterback, the Bills will finish 3rd or 4th in the AFC East.
Period!
Actually we have a QB we dont have a running game right now which along with the defense was supposed to be the strength of this team so we are trying to build a passing game on the fly during the season
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8-8 with EJ, I'd be slightly disappointed but can see progression. 8-8 with Orton should get people fired. It's a bad joke. He was supposed to be an upgrade. Getting to .500 with a 10th year .500 qb when we had a 2nd year one who was .500 is pathetic.
And we'll trick ourselves into settling for a below average qb next year. 8-8 is not good enough, especially when it's your defense that is winning every game for you.
I want to be happy but we are spinning out wheels and wasting a SB caliber defense.
except that you dont get to 8-8 with EJ so then what would that be oh thats write the same ol same .
We haven't been to 8-8 in 10 years and the fact that we could get there and you would consider it pathetic is what is actually pathetic .
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Orton pre-determines where hes going with the football a lot. Hackett needs to make sure Watkins is the primary read on enough plays to get him 10+ targets a game. Its really that simple
Dez Bryant, Julio Jones, Andre Johnson, AJ Green, Jordy Nelson, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Demarius Thomas, ODB, Kelv Benj, Watkins.....all these guys need to be fed the football
Watkins getting 5 shots a game to make an impact play is just a terrible offensive strategy.
This reads like some Im mad because my fantasy team is screwed BS .
We threw the ball 32 times and you are saying we should've made sure to throw to sammy a 3rd of the time REGARDLESS of what the defense is doing ?
Thats stupid
You know it ...I know it and everyone reading this thread knows that that is simply stupid from any type of real football strategy.
We are trying to develop an entire offense NOT JUST ONE PLAYER.
Sammie's presence opened things up for Woods who made plays and as such that will help free Sammie up from being doubled down the line ....again its about building an ENTIRE offense not just one play for one receiver like the 2009 Lions and megatron .
This attitude amongst some that sammy is the only player that counts and so we should not develop any of our other young players is ridiculous.
We play the brown this weekend and Joe haden and they just lost there starting safety . They will put Haden on sammie and we will need a confident Woods to make plays to beat the browns . We will need sammie too but Woods performance will make the browns feel they will have to put haden on Sammie with no help giving Sammie some 1 on 1 matchups which we can go after .
This offense is 8 weeks old and some of the things people are expect from it is ridiculous
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This is really not a good year for the "franchise QB" argument.
As you note, quite of few of the teams in the thick of it do not have franchise QBs. I would add KC to that list of don't haves and Pittsburgh to the do haves.
Several franchise QBs will not even make the playoffs this year. In the running: Blue Drees, Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, Jay Cutler, RGIII, either Russell Wilson or Colin Kaepernick probably, Cam Newton, and Eli Manning.
Thats because the league is changing away from just one guy being the absolute difference. With the new rules good coaching and talent can have success even if you don't have a HOF player at QB.
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He is s**t in the Red Zone...where it matters.
Great defense, average drive start field position is one of the best, and still Orton can't get into the end zone. Big problem, but everyone just wants to blame the sidelines. The Red Zone is what separates the men from the boys, the winners from the journeymen.
pure drivel his numbers are right there with other Qbs despite not really
He is s**t in the Red Zone...where it matters.
Great defense, average drive start field position is one of the best, and still Orton can't get into the end zone. Big problem, but everyone just wants to blame the sidelines. The Red Zone is what separates the men from the boys, the winners from the journeymen.
Getting into the endzone has never been about ONE Guy . getting into the end zone is about execution but also about the ability of players to consistently win individuals in the passing game or being able to run the ball.
Look at the td by Odell and try argue that the Qb is all that matters when getting into the endzone . Th teams who have the highest success rates are the teams that have skill positions players that sleep,eat and live tds like Forte,Marshall,jeffery,Bennett,Murray,Bryant,Thomas ,Sanders,Julio,Roddy,Gronk,
We are trying to develop those types of players and attitudes and this LALA land that some of you live in where we have some seasoned groomed offensive machine instead of the young work in progress is hysterically funny and embarrassing at the same time.
Um, EJ beat Miami and actually scored a td against them.
Our defense is the only reason we have a prayer of the playoffs. They have to hold every opponent 17 points or less, or it's a loss. That's a lot of pressure.
They have been great at times but they have also failed to close the deal on occasion as well . Playoff games are typically tight team who makes the fewest mistakes win types of situations and we have been the team to blink first and not just on the offense but the defensive and special teams well . I don't consider this team a finished product though but they are in the hunt and you want to see how they perform as the pressure mounts the next few weeks .
One other thing I will mention about our post bye play is thats its as if we went into bye and decided just don't make a mistake on offense and the defense will in it for us but the defense is not that caliber we need the offense to be productive so I was glad to see the offense get back to being aggressive . In such an offense driven league you can no longer play in the fear of taking a sack or having a turnover if it comes at the sacrifice of making big plays offensively . The rules dictate aggressiveness you just need to be as smart as possible with it .
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The Bills haven't beaten any top QB's this season, (Stafford, Cutler....meh, guys that run hot and cold).
Now they will face Manning, Rodgers, and Brady....Orton will fall short.
This team just kinda scrums with the rest of the fodder of the NFL, winning some, and losing some...Orton doesn't cut it, and cannot raise the team above the middle of the pack.
Orton is not playing Manning ,Rodgers ,or Brady he is going against the defenses of those teams .
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But I am also not going to sugar coat his week to week performance because I do not believe that will get us many wins against good teams, if any.
Im not telling you to sugarcoat anything just suggesting that you stop making up BS arguments and throwing out all these ridiculous numbers as if no one else watches the games but you .
You are not realist when you pull crap out of thin air you are an alarmist . You are picking and choping what to use dismissing numbers left and right as you see fit that is not realism .
Can Orton play better ? Yes he can but what you're doing is funny and sad at the same time because you are mixing in straw man arguments with your own made up criteria and no one in the world is buying that stuff.
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This is what I hate...stop reading stat lines and start watching games. Four of those TDs were gift wrapped by our D and Sammy against the Jets. What about his lost fumbles, bad sacks, missed wide open guys in the end zone and constant 3 and outs?
The offense is near the bottom of the league in every efficiency category...and Orton has started the most games.
Orton is the 28th ranked QB using the much more informative ESPN QBR which is all about evaluating how efficient and effective a QB is.
We are 2 plays away from being 1-4 under Orton. Detroit beat us, just no one told their kicker. And it took a late defensive stop and an incredible play by Sammy to steal a win with 1 second left against a 1 win Vikes team that had a rookie QB making his first road start in Buffalo.
In the Jets game, he had NINE 3 and outs. NINE.
He and this offense are amongst the worst in the league on third down. Our points per game is not very good outside the Jets abnormally where we got 6 defensive turnovers.
So you can take those cherry picked stats if you like, I prefer to take wins...and his on field week to week performance is not going to get us any wins against good teams which we have several of remaining on our schedule. I don't want the guy who can barely beat a bad team and lose to a good team. I want the guy who can go out with CONSISTENCY and play well to beat good teams.
lol at you telling people to stop analyzing the facts and instead do what you do and eliminate the facts to suit your own needs .
The amount of people I've seen in the past few days who just make outrageous are sometimes just fl;at out stupid remarks and demands is baffling considering I know they watch the games .
Any tds that are thrown with stadium facing east well lets eliminate those and while we are at it lets eliminate all td passes thrown while a hotdog is being sold to a single am under 40 .
Your demands change every week so that it suits your argument .
Every single win in the NFL is tough to start trying to pick and choose which ones matter and what scores actually count is ridiculous
We are two plays from being 1-4 well we are 4 plays from being 9-0 who the hell expects to have a realistic football discussion making these types of claims . Heck under your logic the Cardinals are 8 plays away from being 0-9 talk about some frauds .
I really don't think some of you realize just how crazy some of the stuff you write stuff reads
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You couldn't be more right. The plays calls were there, the players failed to make the plays. I think Hacket gets a bad rap around here. It is not his fault he doesn't have a QB that could make a play once in awhile. Orton has been good up to last Sunday. Was not one of his better games. He missed 3 or 4 throws that would have resulted in TDs. In close games you just can't have that.
Well to be honest it was a mixed bag all around
the defense blew a lead in the 4th
a rb fumbled at the goal line
special teams turned it over while protecting a lead in the 4th
How man drops did the receivers have to start the game ?
Orton missed throws to end the game ?
Why did we throw 48 times ?
The whole team made critical errors and we simply couldn't pull it out at the end as we had done against the Lions and Vikings .
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Orton was not throwing accurately at the end, and I think the mistake was putting the game in his hands at that moment. I agree there was no reason not to try a couple of shorter routes or runs, at least to get the first down.
But the larger question is, what kind of clock management was that? Four passes, if you're successful you get 3 point lead and leave over 3 minutes of the 4th quarter for Smith to work with. If the idea is to get a TD or bust on that drive, use up the clock!
The largest question is, FG or pass on 4th down. I think the FG is the smart play. Carpenter is lights out, the wind was at his back. If all they needed was another FG, all the Bills needed to do was get to the Chiefs 40, or maybe not that far, and Carpenter could do the rest. Even starting with only 25 seconds or whatever they had, they could have made that work.
I agree its like because of the past success we have had the OC decided to play hero ball instead of playing the percentages . We also were not running a no huddle which is what we were in at the end of those previous games . if we take the fg well now the pressure is on KC instead they have the ball and momentum of knowing they stopped us on the previous drive .
I still cant believe we threw it 40+ times
Qb's Against Denver
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
The key to beating this team and the Packers and Patriots is not just a bunch of points its about being opportunistic and playing smart. They thrive off dumb penalties and blown coverages and missed opportunities. We have to be opportunistic and take advantage of every chance we get . Teams tend to lose to these guys because they play sloppy early get down and the margin of error needed to come back is too much to be overcome.