JC2002
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Posts posted by JC2002
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I never said it was shocking he slid. I'm shocked he didn't care enough to try. Trent Edwards did that **** too.
How bout we talk about his 2 redzone picks the last few games or maybe when he starred down his 6'7" TE and threw it right to the defender. Perhaps his back up into a sack
That game was never close. Orton threw for a bunch of yards against a prevent defense. He is responsible for awful performances against Miami and KC that directly lost us the season.
He is also a wuss, plays for himself and couldn't be bothered to sweat it out with his teammates in August after quitting his last team to force a release. I want nothing to do with him.
as I said irrational expectations based on nothing .
How about we talk about the fact that the past two games we have exactly two rushes inside the redzone . Orton has one and scored
and Fred has the other one . How about we run the ball so as not telegraph the play every single time . In the redzone there is only a certain amount of plays and routes that can be run
the game wasnt close ? So he slide in a game that wasn't close but you are all torn up about it ? It was Orton that fumbled out the endzone taking away what wouldve been a 17-3 pt lead against KC . Were we not ahead that game heading into the 4th quarter ? Orton is directly responsible for that loss
and the one against Miami . Its not even worth pointing it out . What does what he did prior to coming here matter ? Plays for himself ? How is he doing that exactly ? Again irrational hate fueled by irrational expectations
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The whole point is that your excuse making for Orton is just dumb. His learning curve wasn't harder than EJ's was last year.
The job of a veteran qb is to be able to learn offenses quickly. That's why they stick around.
A guy who has a career high of 21 tds is what he is after 9 years. This is Kyle Orton. I like him as a backup. I hate him as a starter. So do Bronco and Bear fans. And after his kitty play Last Sunday, I never want to see him again.
Im not making any excuses Im stating THE FACTS you just refuse to even acknowledge them in your hate for Orton . EJ and what he did is irrelevant to the situation yet you keeping him despite that fact that the entire damn NFL knows that there is no comparison between the two players right now .
Orton is a veteran QB but he didn't take over some loaded top 5 offense he took over a team that was run heavy that no longer can run . It doesnt matter what his career high is in tds it really doesnt he has 14 tds passes this year and didn't play the first 4 games . We had a total of 19 passing tds TOTAL last year
Your irrational expectations do not match the reality of the situation . Who cares what Broncos or Bears fans think ? What do they have to do with this situation ? Using opposing fans to justify your hate of a Bills players is ridiculous .
Im not claiming Ortons great so before some of you try and spin it that way just stop it now . But some of you are so far off the rails its ridiculous
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Whose fault is that? Orton plays for himself. You know what i can't stand about this convo and people seem to be missing, Orton slides in a win or go home game. Stanton and Shaun Hill dive for the first down. Gotta have heart
Call me crazy but I want the dude thats going down swinging.
A pocket passer sliding is shocking ? A win or go home game why are we throwing it on 3rd and 1 in a two down situation ? We did go down swinging as we were still close enough to try for an onside kick with a chance to tie at the end of the game so Orton and the team didnt give up but from some of these posts obvious that some of you did from a play that happened early in the game which is not shocking to me at all.
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You are such an Orton apologist. He scored points against one terrible team. We average 17 in every other game he has started. That's below average.
And he's a 9th year player. Hackett's offense is not that complicated. Is he had a worse advantage that EJ was at as a rookie - missed half if training camp and a month of the season?
Orton just isn't a starter. It's been proven for 9 years.
and you are such a hater it must drive you crazy that Orton is still starting
What are you talking about do we not average 21 ppg ? How do you know what Hacketts offense is ? Have you ran it or you just babbling again ? What does EJ have to do with anything ? Are u related to him or something ? The fact that you keep implying that Orton should score 25-30 ppg by himself is stupid , the notion that time in the system does not matter is stupid, that timing and chemistry does not matter is stupid . These things matter and the fact that people like you run in and out these threads with is mindset that you can take anyone give them no camp and start them week 4 of a NFL season and that the offense would click like the packers or Patriots with no reasoning behind it whatsoever is ridiculous.
This irrational sense of entitlement based on ......nothing is ridiculous
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Agreed. Even if it's truth, there's some things there's no benefit in saying. If the media is prodding, just say "I think I covered that, is there another question?"
What makes me throw up a little in my mouth is this quote Here from Browns WR Gordon about Manziel:
"I think he's got enough, he's got what we need right now to move forward and pull off these last three wins," Gordon told Breer. "He's willing to do anything, extend a play, and make something out of nothing. That mindset isn't in everybody. A lot of guys will quit, take a sack or throw the ball away. That's not what he does."
Substitute "Orton" for "A lot of guys" and that's basically why some of us would like to see if EJ's learnt anything, because a QB who will quit on a play is not going to do enough with our offense to beat GB or NE
Actually throwing the ball away is not quitting on a play thats just stupid taking neither is taking . If Manziel doesn't learn how to throw the ball or away or take a sack he wont be the QB for long
Substitute every top QB in the league for "a lot of guys"
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Drew Stantons record is 6-3. He is currently leading the team with the best record in football in a division with the defending super bowl champs and everyones favorite coach. I'm supposed to feel better about our sucky QB play because two other teams, one of which is making the playoffs have bad QB's too? And both of them were backups at the start of the season. Shaun Hill was benched for Austin "I was a high school football coach last season" Davis earlier this year.
Yes Orton isn't Geno Smith. But he's also not even Andy Dalton.
After 15 years, I'm tired of rooting for mediocrity.
Of course hes not Andy Dalton because Dalton has 3-4 years into a system Orton has 9 weeks !!!
Dalton took over a team that averaged 20 ppg the season before he got there and after 3 season of Dalton they average 21 ppg .
The fact that Orton took over the team without camp and the running game which was considered the strength of the team has evaporated and yet we still average 21 ppg would not make Orton mediocre. Now what would it make it him I dont know if anything the situation gives him a incomplete.
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Chi doesnt have the D we have... What i'm saying is that Cutler is a much better QB than we got in Orton. He doesnt miss the "easy" passes. Has the arm strength to throw deep, and has the balls to take risks. However, with our D, and hopefully Cutler having a chip on his shoulder to prove doubters wrong... He wont need to be "superman" out there cuz if he plays just solid, we will have 2nd half leads and can lean on our D and he has the talent to make all the throws.
He can look bad at times, and even though Chi has alot of talent at the skill positions, they know to win, they have to lean on the O.... Here, we can lean on the D and with a QB that actually posseses actual talent... Can be coached into managing the game better (which is also ALOT easier when u have the lead in games rather than getting down 17-0 out of the gate and knowing your D cant stop anyone like in CHI.
The defense has nothing to do with it and Cutler is not a much better QB than Orton jhes just on a different team and the grass is always greener . Cutler has had 5 years in Chicago to prove the doubters wrong and the bears fired coach after coach looking to get the most out of Cutler and he still couldn't get it done . Hes one of the only qbs in the league that you can really say that a organization went above and beyond to try and develop.The Bears had a top 5 defense a couple of years ago and he still couldn't get it done. He is surrounded by the most balanced offensive arsenal of perhaps any qb in the league and he still couldn't get it done but hes gonna come here and get it done because .............of the defense ?
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Those are the kinds of defenses you have to beat if you wanna win a championship.
It's not some fluke, the Bills have sucked offensively for over a decade!
Face it,They need a better QB!
But it sure seems like a rationalization. Like "hey, maybe Orton is good enough, but the Bills just drew a tough schedule of defenses"....NONSENSE!
The offense is BAD.
The offense needs balance we went from a top rushing team to a middling passing team and there is no inbetween and we are not currently built to be strong in either .
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The Bills get an assist. Their ineptitude at QB helped their opponents reach the top 13 rating.
Yeah Im sure that 81 points we put on the jets in two games put them in the top ten
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The team wasn't asking him to win games by himself. With the defense they have, was it too much to ask of him to make good decisions and accurate throws when opportunities have been there within the design of the offense?
Again more misinformation since when is 38 pass attempts per game not asking a qb to do much ? Thats how many pass attempts Orton has averaged through 9 games but all we needed from him was to manage the game and make a few timely passes ? The design of theoffense cause for nearly 40 attempts per game ?
As I said before some of you are in flat out denial . We even have people talking about 2 occasions where Orton missed an opportunity deep out nearly 60 attempts .
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What's ridiculous is Orton's failure in big games for this team where he has had chances to deliver accurate passes in key situations. He simply needed to do his share with the defense playing at such a high level and he failed miserably. You can keep the lame excuse making.
You keep saying his share but in reality you mean perfection because youve been at his since day one . First it was the sacks and turnovers even when were winning so its not about a few key passes youve made that quite clear . .
Facts are excuses to only those who refuse to accept them for what they are
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He should have tried that before the KC, MIA, and DEN games. A little late now. In all sincerity, Orton is who he's always been and it's simply not good enough to lead a playoff team.
Or it could be that our passing game is around 17th when it was in the bottom 5 last year and that with Oline issues and young inexperienced receiving corps that we have bigger issues than QB .
Your denial of these very real FACTS is why you have such a hard time with his comments .
The very notion that some of you are hinting at that we brought Orton here to win every game with his arm is ridiculous .
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One of the biggest issues we have on the offensive side of the ball is the lack of experience in the WR corps. Robert Woods is the senior member of the group and he has a grand total of 27 starts. Watkins has 13 and Hogan has 10. That's 50 starts between the three of them. Each of Denver's top three receivers have over 66 NFL games and Welker alone has 164.
When you match that up with questionable interior line play, a QB who got no preseason practice time, a pretty inexperienced OC who is guilty of questionable play calling, you don't have an accepted recipe for long term success. It's one of the things that makes what's going on with Mike Williams even more maddening.
I have been saying this for a while now which is why I have said repeatedly in the shoutbox that some of the expectations are ridiculous and cant even be justified . The passing offense has gone from around 28th last season to around 17th right now . Yet the expectations that the people are pushing would push it to the top ten if they were met .No one thought two months ago that we would be starting Orton with the expectation that we would pass our way to victory every single game precisely because of the issues you named.
The apparent problems with non aggressive play calling fits right into what normally happens when inexperienced coaches find out they have a dominant defense . They tend to become risk adverse in certain situations because the defense will keep them in it when it fact they should be even more aggressive because the defense will keep them in it . In this the year walking a fine line because of the O-line and inexperience of the receivers so you know mistakes are coming but I feel a faster more aggressive playstyle would allow us to play through our mistakes easier.
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Sammie is doing fine I am expecting him to finish with 80 catches 1000+ yards and 8 tds which would be great rookie season .Thats a top 20 receiver and is right on the outside of the top ten which is fine for this year .
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Clearly you've missed his ghost flinches to pressure and the times he just lays down rather than try to make a play. Orton is a kitty and showed it repeatedly in Denver.
Lol no he wasn't in 2010 with Lloyd Orton was one of the top qbs as far as big play passes goes in the league as he stood in there and took serious hits waiting to get the ball down the field it is also why he was one of the most sacked qbs as well.
We have seen Orton within the pocket collapsing throw a unscripted shuffle pass to beat the pressure and take plenty of hits . It was actually 4 down territory and he should have either tried to run it and risk a turnover or throw it away . It was a bad decision but based on history it had nothing to with him being scared but simply a mental error as he thought he was at least back at the line of scrimmage .
What bothers me the most is not the slide but the fact that pre-bye orton throw that to the endzone trying to make a big play . That recklessness that Orton started with is needed to balance out the risk adverse coaching .
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In retrospect, that wouldn't be too bad a thing if the QB could actually avoid TO's. But I don't think so, I think Orton is rattled from taking pops. He didn't have that panic in the pocket when he first started.
I dont think Ortons afraid of getting hit in Denver in 2010 he was 6th in pass plays over 20 yards and 3rd and pass plays over 40 yards and was sacked the sixth in sacks taken . Deep ball aggression is an offensive mentality a mistake or two doesnt stop it because you know you are gonna hit one sooner or later and I just dont get that vibe from the coaching staff . But then again we came out after they went up 14-3 with back to back designed deep ball plays and gave up sacks so I think the coaching staff gets bit gunshy until their hand is absolutely forced
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Hackett didn't even know what defensive scheme the Texans secondary were playing until last into the third quarter, and Mike Williams then went invisible for voicing that to the Buffalo Bills post game show. He stated 'we adjusted too late". Then he said things tend not to work when you are playing against a different scheme then the one you game planned for.
Most Bills fans just don't really just how bad this offensive coaching is, and has been all year. Kyle Orton is an average QB, and not elite. So why ask the guy to throw 57 times against the #4 ranked defense in the league. Just insane!
Ive been saying that for weeks . The interesting part is that Orton would have made or at least tried those throws when he first took over the team but since the bye week its as though hes been told be safe with the ball avoid turnovers and the defense will win it ...that is until late in the game when they realize its not working and then they get aggressive and finds some success. Its maddening .
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If it stops us from running the fake reverse screen pass to fred, then yes.
Our playcalling is so inconsistent I can't stand it. The only thing that can be executed is the 5 and out pass to hogan or some dump off to chandler or fred. We are too afraid to let it go downfield or the qb simply doesn't have time with urbik getting destroyed
They dont trust the Oline or they dont trust the backs because 3rd and 1 and they are throwing it
Now as for the no huddle thing I said weeks ago that if they are not going to run the ball seriously then you get ultra aggressive in the passing game and just let it fly down the field and be uber aggressive in your tempo and your formations and hope you can catch some teams with delayed draws etc .
Its like at the bye they told Orton just to take care of the ball and the defense would win it for us . But this team kinda needs aggressive Orton even with the occasional pick or crazy sack because the tempo we play with no running game is not conducive to the personnel we have .
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We have most of a line, that's the easy part. QB? We need some magic!
I would say throwing on 3rd and 1 inside the 30 says no we dont have a OLine and its not the easy part .
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After watching that video that was posted in another thread the right play was for Orton to simply throw it away . All this talk about fighting for a extra yard that clearly wasn't there is stupid . If he fights two defenders and then fumbles you are not going to give credit for being tough if it take points off the board. lol
Its amazing though how no one wants to talk about the elephant in the room . Its 3rd and 1 Fred had just gained 9 yards on a 2nd down run and yet again we dont try and pound it . 58 passes and people are talking about a slide ? Every question asked yesterday should've been about what the hell has happened to the running game.
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I think Orton honestly simply forgot distance and down which is a totally screw up in itself but I dont think hes scared to run or get hit . But at the end of the day if you would have told me that we make a qb switch after 4 games and then have that QB throwing nearly 60 times in a game and then mad that we are not having much success with that strategy I would have LMAO.
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Or worse because they are always playing from behind
Wins - 11 tds 2 ints
Losses - 15 tds 13 ints
Cutler just throws picks it does not matter whether they are winning or behind . Hes had the same issues the entire time hes been with the bears regardless of defense and they have fired and overhauled their entire offense around him and he still does it .
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The telltale sign of what?
that people don't what the hell they are talking about and just love to stir up drama . Sammies issues are multifaceted and is something that every rookie goes through its gonna take adjustment by everyone and I wouldn't be surprised to see him back on track on Sunday.
http://www.syracuse....king_so_mu.html
I don't know because he's been practicing so hard," Hackett said. "Usually rookie wall comes across the board. I think it's the fact that people are a little bit nervous about him. So I think they pay a lot more attention to him, and he's not used to that. So when they put their best corner on him, these guys are good, they're experienced guys. You put a guy like (Joe) Haden on him, that guy's spectacular. I think it just presents different challenges for him. In the NFL, you have to work for every single catch. Every single yard you get. He's learning that. I think he's just going through a learning process. I would say it's a rookie wall, but he's probably working harder than he's ever worked in the classroom out on the playing field doing everything, so he's been great."I just got to get back to fundamental details," Watkins said. "That's something I've been missing for three weeks, because I've been getting different looks, different schemes. So I've just got to get back to myself and doing what I've been doing in the beginning of the season, and just trusting it and sticking with it.
"I don't think it's just frustration. I gotta get back in the groove. And I think that's just going back and seeing the eight games that I've been doing the right things, had some steps, and I've just get back to the fundamentals and the details and stop thinking too much about going against guys and getting two-manned.
Hackett said teams are varying the looks Watkins gets in addition to rolling coverage and sticking the best cornerback on him. Bills coaches are trying to stress that Watkins not think so much and instead just get out there and play.
"I think he wants to be so perfect every time," Hackett said. "That's what's so great about him but sometimes is the deficiency. He wants to run such a perfect route all the time, he thinks about it, instead of just, 'Hey, beat that cat! Just beat him. Don't worry about anything, just beat him and get open.' I think that for him, we just have to keep doing the things we're doing and get him in different spots and get him some different routes in his route tree so people don't know what's going to happen."
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That's the telltale sign. The folks who are down on Sammy are the ones who haven't watched any of the all-22s. It's a dead give away.
I think the telltale sign are the folks who watch that film and decide that Sammie did everything perfectly every single time or made the right adjustment
The thing is in the NFL its not what you do to get noticed its what you do after every notices you . Everyone is watching Sammie and they know his tendencies now so its all about how he adjusts to the way defenses have adjusted to him .
There are so many things going on with this offense right now I cant even believe that Sammie is a concern because clearly know teams are trying to take him away . The Patriots tried to take away Nelson and Cobb and so Rodgers went to that Evans kid early and often . The Pack has established that trying to take away something against them wont work and they just move on to someone else which is what we are trying to do and we are not nearly as established as they are .
Orton may not be great, but ...
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Im not maybe you should try some reading comprehension .