TPS

Thanks AD, can always count on you to show that both sides are equally guilty. However, please read my post on selling the war, or at least the article from the DIA analyst on selling the war. All of your quotes fit right in with the "Iraq War Act" of 1998, which according to the author of the article I posted, was sold then by the same group that took control of Bush 2's cabinet. You guys fit right in with the "Kool-Aid" crowd....

Mickey, if you read the article I posted about selling the war, you'd realize that GG is one of the Kool-Aid drinkers.... They either have to admit they were wrong, or they have to swallow the same line of reasoning that Clinton used to defend himself against a blow job. Hmmm...Blow job vs. war....swallow...

This is how pathetic the right's argument has become; you have to focus on some poor woman who lost her son in Iraq, and ignore the fact that you bought, hook, line, and sinker, the PR that the the White House IRaq Group sold to the right-wing press. Cheney fed a line to Scooter, who fed a line to Miller, who printed it in the liberal NYT, and then Cheney quoted the artice from the NYT on Meet The Press. Do you sycophants not see how yo've been played?

You obviously know more than the CIA does, since they asked the AG to investigate the matter..

Your argument for the war is the neocons feared Saddam way back when. I'd say they were plotting how to pursue their interests way back when. As it turned out, Saddam was a minor threat. The UN inspections were working. Read the article on the link "selling the war." Your cabal wanted to overthrow Saddam for their own reasons, and over-stated his threat. They wouldn't listen to anyone else; it was their way or the highway. It was their bloviations in 1998 that got congress and Clinton to pass the "Iraq Liberation Act." Of course, you'll rely on the "experts" here who have argued over the past 3 years that everything we thought about Saddam was true. Is it not now obvious that Saddam was not a threat? Is it not now obvious, as Scowcroft said in his interview, that invading Iraq has increased the threat of terrorism and destabilized the ME? This cabal had a grand vision that if they took out Saddam they could revolutionize the ME, and get a few goodies for their buddies along the way (control of Iraq's oil and eliminate one of Israel's major threats). It ain't working. Yes, quite a few people fell for the svengali influence of this cabal, and now it's coming home to roost--the sane people who run/ran foreign policy want these idiots out.

The possibility that the top aides to the president and vice president may be indicted for the outing of a CIA officer; the cover up of that outing; the possibility that the vp may go down with them; the use and cooperation of a reporter for the nation's major newspaper to market the war; taking the nation to war on falsified/inflated information (possibly behind the creation of the Niger documents); and on, and on... Because you right-wingers have trusted and defended this administration to no end, it puts you in an a no-win situation: you either have to go down with the ship (acting like this is trivial), or admit you were wrong, which means that you bought the PR (lies) these schmucks peddled about Iraq.

Seriously, you act like all of this is trivial; do you really think so?

And i thought I was cynical... Term limits are looking more and more appealing.

i don't know that i'd want Losman's next start to be against the Pats there. i'd let KH go this next one, then you give Losman two weeks to prepare for his next start with the bye week. In addition, the loss to the Pats will dismiss any talk of KH as the solution. No, I don't think we can beat the Pats there.

People have to finally admit that they can't trust or believe politicians from either party. I've stated quite often that I no longer vote for any candidate from either major party. Nothing will change until people get mad as hell and fed up with the two-party system/dominance. I've argued it starts locally: get involved with an alternative party, or start voting alternative at the local level. Once the alternative parties get elected to local offices, then they can start winning national offices. It won't happen overnight, but it won't happen at all if you either become disenchanted or vote party line. The silver lining is the feelings you express: if a large enough segment of the population feels this, then significant change for the better will happen.

whoa! YOU actually call it a "cabal in the White House& Pentagon"? Next we're going to hear about how you never believed the Neocons to begin with...

A very interesting piece by a former DIA analyst on the selling of the war by the VP's office. It's long, but worth the read; unless you have already... Drunk the Kool-Aid

did you read the article? Here's the nugget: "Nonetheless, the forged documents appeared, on the face of it, to shore up the case for war, and to discredit Wilson. The origin of the forgeries is therefore of real importance, and any link between the forgeries and Bush administration aides would be highly damaging and almost certainly criminal." Yes, I believe it was Elbaradei who said they were forgeries back in 2003; however, this article indicates the forgeries may have ties back to the White House. Do you think that's not news now either?

Interesting UPI article speculating on the direction Fitzgerald is going. You couldn't write a novel this good... Niger Docs forgery

for next FED chairman. On the one hand, I think he's made a good choice; on the other, if he makes a poor choice like Miers and SC, the financial markets would've reacted negatively and forced him to re-think. Didn't want to disappoint anyone and give only a positive bush response...

It's ok dn, once you give up the party's kool-aid you really will feel much better. The best thing about it is that you can start to reply with real aguments again, instead of "Enquirer-type" responses...

Apparently the Neocons are losing friends... This liberal is almost starting to feel sorry for Bush....almost.... Scowcroft attacks

No, but I think it's been taken to a more extreme level these guys. I recently read an article with a list of long-time government professionals who have resigned from various departments because of this increased degree of partisan political appointees, and the ineptitude of these appointees. As for KRC's comment, read a few more threads here and see who has responded with "but Clinton/Dems were worse." In fact, all you need to do is read the second response in the "Plamegate" thread.... As I've said many times, many of the right-wingers on this board act just like some of the Clinton supporters did here prior to Bush--"My man can do no wrong." You end up saying the darndest things when you constantly defend these idiots--politicians, although it could apply to you righties....

From the article: "In part, the weight of an indictment on leaking classified information could depend on whether the exposure of Ms. Plame caused damage. That isn't clear. Damage-assessment reports commonly are done when such leaks occur, but congressional staffers say they haven't seen any such document related to this investigation. The CIA did produce an initial report to see if assets were in danger or needed to be moved, a government official said. But that didn't take the form of a formal report to Congress, as has occurred in bigger espionage matters."

More-on Brown's ineptitude... FEMA

I didn't know that you were a political (hack) appointee?

Katrina was a good example of the ineptitude of "this government." He didn't say "the government," it was THIS GOVERNMENT. These people are more concerned that you pass their political test than be competent--and I'm talking about the appointees who "manage" the departments, not the folks who actually do the work. Here's a little snippet for you: After dinner please!

"If there is a nuclear terrorist attack or a major pandemic ... you are going to see the ineptitude of this government in a way that'll take you back to the declaration of independence." From the interview with Larry Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Colin Powell. This reminds of something I've been reading and thinking about, how poorly this administration has reacted to 911, and ensuring that it doesn't happen again. It seems almost every appointment made in every department is some political hack who gave the right amount of money, and passed their political Litmus test. This is the last I want for the department of Homeland Security. About the most efficient thing this administration has done is to make sure the billions of dollars allocated to boost and improve security goes to their constituents. Katrina provided another test/opportunity for this administration to show how they've improved our security and response to disasters, and I can't say they passed the test. These guys are a joke; and unfortunately, the American people are the butt of it...

A couple of resonses to some throughout this thread: 1. It was the CIA that requested Justice to investigate the leak, so it's not some political witch hunt. In addition, Why would the CIA ask for an investigation if they didn't think there was a violation? Does it matter whether the source was an act/law/bill? As for the credibility of Wilson (and this is the first time I've read someone question his wife's credibility too--only at PPP...), the administration admitted that the Niger data should not have been in the SOU address, which supports Wilson's claim. Didn't Tenet even take the blame? As for "editorials" from conservatives that claim Wilson lied, I can also provide "editorials" that claim he didn't. For example: Liars I'm not trying to defend Wilson per se, rather that fact that the right, center, left or whatever can provide us with any slant they want. Seems to me though, the right is saying Wilson lied, and at the same time saying the administration either exaggerated or "miscommunicated." Can't have it both ways...

The plot thickens.... WHIG "So determined was the ring of top officials to win its argument that it morphed into a virtual hit squad that took aim at critics who questioned its claims, sources told the Daily News. One of those critics was ex-Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who debunked a key claim in a speech by President Bush that Iraq sought nuclear materials in Africa. His punishment was the media outing of his wife, CIA spy Valerie Plame, an affair that became a "side show" for the White House Iraq Group, the sources said. " Looks like Judy Miller was part of the PR process to get us into war! Gee, I wonder where the so-called "facts" came from that debunked Wilson???