The Frankish Reich
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Posts posted by The Frankish Reich
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He agreed to sign the contract at the time, so that's how it helped the Bills
So you don't consider a new owner taking over new management??
It did strike me as a weird clause. I don't pretend to know NFL contracts, but I do know contracts in general, and it was weird because there doesn't seem to be any real impact on the coaching staff of a change of ownership. It's not like Ralph Wilson and Marrone had some long history such that Marrone only agreed to coach the Bills based on that personal connection. This would be the kind of thing you'd expect with, say, John Elway and Pat Bowlen (president of football operations and owner, where there was a long personal relationship between the two men), or even John Elway and John Fox, but not between owner and coach. Was it put in there with the expectation that a change of ownership would mean a relocation of the franchise, and Marrone wasn't ready to move to Toronto or LA? I'd have to say that's the only explanation I can think of.
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I think we all know that Bama isn't Saban's last coaching job. And we know for sure that he has no qualms about reneging on a promise. But if he comes back to the NFL I can't see it in Buffalo. Atlanta? San Francisco? Jets? Those wouldn't shock me.
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Are you TRYING to start the year off with the worst post of 2015? It's ambitious, but I think you've legitimately got a shot!
You're right. We went 9-7! A winning record! Why fix what ain't broken! And dammit, we have the best tailgating experience in the NFL! Such are the low expectations of Bills fans ...
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well, it appears that he was right along along when he ditched Cutler. Also taking that WR they have there over Dez Bryant wasn't a bad move either.
Plus, hate him or love him, Tebow is available and he really liked Tebow. That could be a good thing?
And something makes me think the McDaniel's ego is still so huge that he'd bring Tebow in again as soon as he's named a HC just to prove that he, Boy Genius Josh McDaniels, can make anything work. (Actually, I think enough time has now passed that an NFL team really could use Tebow effectively as just a wildcat QB/FB without fans clamoring for him to start at QB)
No thanks. This guy is dirty
Yeah, but he'd be our dirty guy this time.
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Please no
I regularly read the Broncos boards and they loathe him
That's right. And I think it's because everyone sees that after the Seahawks showed the way for slowing down Peyton's passing game, Gase hasn't been able to come up with any adjustments that give Broncos fans confidence that they could beat Seattle if they meet again. The heavy OL set is a gimmick, one that I'm surprised worked for as long as it did (and one that I'm surprised no other teams seem to try even if only to get past a QB injury ... I'm looking at you, Bruce Arians)
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Love it. And to think I almost didn't click on it given the title -- great take, sometimes it takes humor to drive the truth home ....
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Why?? We have the Canisius kid...Megahertz. He's money.
But seriously, having run through just about every mediocre power forward out there, how long before NFL teams start bringing in 7 foot centers? -
I'm pro mcdaniel if he brings garroppolo
What if he brings Ryan Mallet? I don't know what to think about him.
It is. Now you interview the 1st minority coach you find on staff to check the box and proceed as normal after
I think you're probably right. Without making some kind of political point, it seems to me that when all the coaching candidates kicking around are white guys, there's probably a really good black HC candidate people are missing out on.
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Bills haven't had a good TE since Metzelaars. I'll gladly take Julius Thomas and pay him Jimmy Graham numbers . For some reason the Bills treat the TE position like a disease. All the great offenses have great TE's these days.
Unfortunately, most "insiders" seem to think the Broncos will franchise tag Julius Thomas as a TE, doing exactly what the Saints did with Graham.
Much cheaper Broncos free agents that they may not be able to sign: Orlando Franklin (G/T, but he's not having a good year), Wil Montgomery (C who took over midseason and really stabilized the line -- could allow Wood to move to G and do the same for the Bills)
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By the way, what happened to the Rooney Rule? I'm not hearing anything about minority coaches. Just wondering if it's still in place.
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I'm glad he's gone. I don't like him. But to say he is a terrible coach, under any circumstances, is just not true. I think we won 9 games in spite of him more than because of him, but he does some stuff well. He hired Pettine and Schwartz. He gets the team ready to play. He was a big part of Dareus becoming the player he became. It took a lot of balls to play Orton. Again, I don't really like him and glad he is not here but not the worst coach ever.
Exactly my feelings.
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Living in Colorado I've seen a lot of Gase and his offenses the last few years -- he started here as WR coach back in the McDaniels years, then McCoy's QB coach (read: coached Orton and Tebow in 2011), then OC the last couple years. I have to say I'm not that impressed. The offense was fantastic at the start of 2013, but it was McCoy's and Peyton's offense with the added dimensions of Welker and the emergence of Julius Thomas (plus a surprise excellent year from Knowshon Moreno). Defenses started figuring it out toward the end of the year, and ever since the Seahawks completely shut them down, they just haven't been the same. Gase's minor adjustments didn't do much. After St. Louis beat them this year, Gase went with the heavy formation (blocking TE + extra eligible T) and they ran it effectively, but that's not really surprising when you commit so heavily to the run. Since that novelty wore off, they're having real problems finding a balance: they run well in the heavy formation, pass well in the spread, but not vice versa. I was much more impressed with McCoy, who managed to do a complete 180 in the middle of a season from Orton to a pure read option with Tebow, and somehow he made it work. And then made it work almost immediately the next year when Peyton came in. Gase is to McCoy as Marrone is to Sean Payton -- guys who get the credit for someone else's innovative schemes. I don't think he'll take Buffalo anyway, and I'm perfectly o.k. with that.
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Two wrongs don't make a right. Whaley shouldn't of traded away our 1st pick for Watkins, and we should of drafted O. Beckham instead and kept our pick. But Watkins is a really good player and will get better. T. Bridgewater is not the answer and in my opinion neither is any other quarterback in he draft or via trade. Were going to have to find somebody in free agency and draft a quarterback in the middle rounds to develop like a Russell Wilson who we could of had but took TJ Graham instead.
Here's where I'm coming from: management has to choose. Without a franchise QB, the idea that you're building for sustained winning over a decade or so is nonsense. So you gotta choose. I see peak defensive talent right now, and some decent offensive talent. The defense won't last. There's young guys like Bradham and Alonso and Preston Brown, but the core is older players like Dareus, or players already heading into their decline phases like Kyle and Mario. (They played great this year; how many linemen moving well into their 30s maintain that level?) So if I'm Pegula, I'm saying the future is now.
But there's another way of looking at it which is perfectly rational. We'll build a long term system. Develop good young players. Keep all the young talent we can, and hope to draft and develop the QB of the future. We probably won't win anything right away. A playoff appearance or two at best. But we'll keep focused on drafting/developing/keeping the best talent available.
What bothers me is this: standing pat, dubbing players untouchable (we've all heard it: sign Dareus at any cost! re-sign Hughes! And now, the response I was expecting: don't touch Sammy whatever you do!), plugging in another stopgap or two, and hoping against hope that in the next couple years the Patriots finally decline, and Miami stalls, or the AFC gets weak enough that 10-6 or even 9-7 may get us a playoff appearance. I see no value in that.
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The model has to be the Arizona Cardinals.
2011-12: horrible offense (Kolb, Skelton, a little Ryan Lindley even), emerging defense (17th in scoring against both years)
2013: Carson Palmer in, offense moves up to 16th, defense in its prime (7th)
2014: it finally really starts humming. Defense 5th, offense slightly improved ... until Palmer tears up his knee.
Is there a Carson Palmer out there? The closest thing available is Jay Cutler. Hmm ...
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No idea what you're trying to say. IMO Sammy would not garner a first round pick, let alone #1 overall.
OK, I get it. And that's just as obviously wrong on the other side. Sammy is still very affordable, under team control for several years, and clearly would be worth at least a top half of the first round pick. Objectively I'd say he's worth what we used for him -- a 4th overall pick or so.
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Marrone was too loyal to his staff in spite of mediocrity. On that basis alone, he had to go.
We'll see soon enough 'who wants him'.
No way Marrone opts out unless he's pretty damn sure he'll get a new gig, and for at least the same pay. One man's trash is another man's treasure (see: threads suggesting we hire Rex Ryan)
Good point. it's already an incredible year for stupidity. This could be an all time great one.
Because watching EJ miss Sammy by 5 yards will be so gratifying, knowing that Sammy is just one competent QB away from the HOF!
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A. Sammy's not worth a first
B. Post trade we'd need another receiver
C. / close thread
Not worth even THE FIRST PICK? Really? Here's how you know that's not true: Tampa wouldn't give us the first pick for him! Remember, I started this thread by talking about the endowment effect, the tendency of people to overvalue what they already have and undervalue the alternative things they could have. Again, you guys are proving my point. Let me put it another way: Tampa's QB situation is lousy, but not as bad as ours. So presumably if you're right they would prefer Glennon + Sammy to, say, Mariota + their current crop of WRs. So let's make that deal ...
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No because in a year or two Manning and Brady will be retired or very very close.
You want to trade Sammy for a pile or potential garbage. Foles, Winston, 3rd best QB in draft
You say Minn wouldn't trade Sammy for Brdgewater who has IMO has a much better chance at flame out than Sammy does, so then why do you want to get rid of a proven star for likely someone who may be out of football in a few years or will drift from team to team as a backup.
Bridgewater does have a much better chance of flaming out than Sammy. So if you're satisfied with an Orton type at QB during the final year or two of a dominant defense, a shot at a 9-7 or even 10-6 record in one or both of those years, perhaps one or even two first round playoff losses, then you're absolutely right. Hang onto Sammy and whatever other key assets you think you might have and patch together the QB situation. You may just scale the heights of success like the Kansas City Chiefs just did. Might I remind you that KC: (1) beat us, again. (2) came much closer to making the playoffs than we did. (3) did so with zero WR TD catches. And actually made the playoffs last year, so we're not even at the mediocre level of success yet.
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The question is: "Is there anything out there in the draft that we need and can't get in the second round worth our proven #1 WR?"
The answer is probably no.
Even if we miracluously snagged a #1 overall pick for last years #4 pick, who would we draft? Mariota is basically EJ Manuel 2.0, and Winston would be booed by fans if he got into more trouble in Buffalo
I don't recall EJ ever doing what Mariota just did.
This thread is ridiculous. I'd rather get cutler or RG3 or Foles. Unless we can trade Sammy for Andrew Luck, I'm not gonna be happy with a trade involving Watkins.
Now that's ridiculous. As I stated in the thread starter, no way Minnesota would trade Bridgewater (a still unproven 30th pick overall) for Sammy. If we had beaten Oakland and they were in the running for Mariota or Winston, they might have given us Carr for Sammy. Might have. And Carr didn't exactly impress. There's probably about 20 QBs out there that it would make sense to trade Sammy for, since otherwise we will be playing, at best, maybe the 35th best QB in the NFL next year. A good QB is worth far more than even an exceptional WR. Russell Wilson + Golden Tate > John Skelton + Larry Fitzgerald. That's the NFL.
Here's my list of who I'd probably trade Sammy for and I'm guessing many posters here would likely cut my list in half: Arron Rodgers, Andrew Luck Phillip Rivers, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Matt Ryan Tony Romo, Matt Stafford, Big Ben,, maybe Wilson in Sea.
I think you're kind of proving my point. You wouldn't trade Sammy straight up for Peyton Manning? For Brady? For Kaepernick? For Cam Newton? Maybe for Wilson (I'm sure Seattle would find that amusing).
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Yeah, I don't know. Owner gets an opportunity to bring in his guys and run the ship his way. Everybody needs to get on the same page. Obvious Marrone wasn't. I like Whaley - a lot. It's easy to second guess everything in hindsight. But given what he knew at the time, I think he made the right call.
There are gonna be some adequate QBs available this off season in FA and trade. What scares me is the O-line. Hopefully we can fix the interior enough to give a QB more than 2 secs. We also need someone mobile *and* accurate.
C
I'm not at all worried about Marrone leaving. I see nothing that suggests he got more out of our talent than any other decent coach would have. But I am very concerned about the QB situation. Even with Orton on the roster we could assume that the worst we would do is a reasonably competent QB somewhere in the 25th-30th best starting QB range. There's a huge gap between that and, say, Ryan Lindley (to use an example of how really poor QB play destroys even clear playoff quality teams)
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If one more person tries to tell me that the verdict is in on the Watkins trade- if it wasn't for freaking Beckham everyone would be perfectly happy with the trade. For all we know Watkins will be in the hall of fame someday. It's a freaking 19th overall pick, get over it. I thought it was a good trade then and I think it's a good trade now. Of course I would take Beckham at 9 if I had it to do over but no one saw that coming. I wouldn't trade Watkins for anyone else we would've realistically drafted at 9 plus the 19th pick this year. To quote wind in his hair, "good trade."
I don't think it was a bad trade at all. But it was predicated on the idea that Manuel would show significant development. In fact, on the idea that one of the reasons Manuel wasn't showing significant development was the lack of weapons at WR, hence the Sammy deal and the Mike Williams signing. Sammy performed well. He was well worth the 4th pick overall. That's why I think he has great trade value. I just think this team is going nowhere fast with stopgap QBs and a young, perhaps soon-to-be-great WR, whereas teams with really good young QBs and no special talent at WR are always primed for success. Circumstances changed. I think Sammy is now more valuable to some other teams than to us, which is what makes for big trades.
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A team that was in a very similar position to the post-2014 Bills. I give you the post-2011 Titans:
2011 Tennessee Titans. 9-7 with Hasselbeck at QB. 8th ranked scoring defense, 21st ranked scoring offense. Everyone excited about the move to Jake Locker the next season. Top 10 defense, more athleticism/youth at QB, reason for optimism.
2012: Rough transition to Locker, but still 21st in offense. Defense collapses: lowest rated in the NFL.
2013: Locker shows great improvement but misses 7 games (Fitzy starts). Defense rebounds to 16th ranked. Reason for optimism.
2014: Full collapse. Total rebuild mode.
I'm not saying that's the path we'll follow. I certainly hope not. But the "a few tweaks here and a few tweaks there, and this team will be ready to compete in the playoffs" concept is one of the most dangerous ideas out there. In the NFL being a team on the rise is fleeting. Right now I see a team that either makes big moves to improve right now, or the most competitive Bills team in recent memory will be seen only in the rear view mirror.
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Taleb would not be an advocate for your idea pal.
Well, he'd have nothing to say about it I'm sure, but in the sense of being willing to go against the prevailing wisdom ...
... the prevailing wisdom here is this: The Bills are a team on the rise. Their defense is for real. Some better offensive coaching and a new lineman or two combined with Orton/Manuel level of QB play and we may very well make the playoffs next year or the year after (at which point everyone will agree that age and salaries of key defensive players start to erode the defense).
To me that means this: we are aiming to be the Chiefs of 2013-2014. The best case scenario is we make the playoffs, then lose in Round 1. Believe me, I'd be thrilled to see a Bills playoff game again. But with the Chiefs I feel like we've seen the best we're going to see out of this roster. And the Bills haven't even hit that level yet, and to be honest there's not even an Alex Smith quality QB out there. We need to face the reality that without some major, major rethinking of things, 2014 may be the best Bills season we'll see for some time. This is no time to stand pat.
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Foles and a first for Sammy? Seems like you're over valuing what you have. Nobody would make that trade. If this year shows anything it's that productive WRs can be found easily in the draft. Sammys stock has likely dropped this year. He's very valuable but nobody would give up a QB with talent. Nobody would give up a first for him is bet. I'm not even sure he's our most tradeable asset.
A second and a significantly better QB than we otherwise can find on the open market? I don't think that's a stretch at all.
My final thoughts on Saint Dougie
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
My final thoughts:
1. Decent coach, seemed to have support of his coaching staff and players. Even putting certain players (Mike Williams) in his doghouse probably had some positive effect on the others. We're not privy to all those team dynamics, but to me the proof was in the obvious effort the guys who were on the field put in from Game 1 to Game 32 of the Doug Era.
2. Not much of a strategist. And not exactly a riverboat gambler. I'd have preferred a little more aggressiveness on offense and a little less willingness to punt. And a little less loyalty to his assistants like Hackett, who looked like he cod use some help.
3. Part of being an NFL coach is handling the media and fans with grace. (yeah, I know, Belichick and all that). And he failed miserably on that front. That won't play any better in NYC or Chicago or wherever he winds up. Belichick earned the right to be grumpy. Marrone hasn't earned anything yet.
4. We all appreciate a graceful exit. That's why I was glad to see this statement from Doug:
"It is with mixed emotions that I informed Mr and Mrs Pegula that I will not be returning as Bills coach next year. I respect everything the late Mr Wilson did for this organization and this community, and the people of Buffalo, and we can all take great pride in the fact that our new owners are committed to continuing that tradition. These decisions are always difficult and involve a whole host of family and professional considerations. Please be assured that I am honored by the support of the people of Western New York over these last two years, and that my departure is in no way an expression of any dissatisfaction. As we move on to new opportunities, I wish the Bills and the people of Buffalo nothing but the best. You have earned it."
Oh, wait a minute. He never said anything remotely like that. Instead he apparently issued no formal statement at all and then trashed the organization to Polian on his way out. What a jackass. And I never got over that slump shouldered, mouth slightly open, constipated expression on his face that he had on the sidelines. Doug Marrone, you will not be missed.