ExiledInIllinois
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Posts posted by ExiledInIllinois
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Agree.
Same here... I usually carry a lumber pack w/ bottle holders and wear a windshirt vest that covers it in back... I was at the opener and at Miami... they never even noticed... Had water and one beer in the holders.
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Well, it at least supports what I said: seiches and tsunami are two completely different phenomenon with vastly different structures (simply by the difference in speeds), and thus can't really be compared.
It also explains why the Hilo tsunami in '46 was such a bad one: the bay is the perfect size to amplify the tsunami wave train as it comes in. When Hilo gets hit with tsunami, they usually get hit bad. In fact, the '46 Hilo tsunami was one of the motivations for setting up the Pacific Rim warning system, as I recall.
I understand... I wasn't really trying to say they were both the same... Just the closest event on enclosed waters. Like the event that happened early on in Buffalo... It had to be a shock? Then again, shabbily constructed areas will always come back to bite you in the arse when a nasty natural event takes place!
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Interesting. Also a completely different effect, I think. Tsunami, in the open ocean, are long-wavelength small-amplitude waves that move (500 mph is about typical, with a crest-to-trough height of maybe a foot and a wavelength of miles.) It's the wavelength and speed that makes them so dangerous: the long wavelength insures a lot of water involved, and the speed insures that, when the wave hits the shallows and starts to build up, that water's moving. I don't think you can get that effect from a wind-driven surge, since it's fundamentally a surface effect. Seiche might be bad, but it's to a degree limited in that it fundamentally can't involve the depths of a body of water they way tsunami can.
Of course, I'm not a hydrographer. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...
(And, of course, I'm doing back-of-the-envelope physics calculations as I type...but that's just me.)Exactly.
I also stayed at a Holiday Inn Express (they had google!
).I bet in early times, without accurate forecasting it might have caused a big problem... now it still might lead to some property damage.
Here... I found something that a seiche at sea might counteract a tsunami:
In simple terms, what is a seiche? Could a seiche counteract the forward energy of a tsunami? How do you pronounce "seiche"?
Every enclosed body of water has a number of natural resonances. If you sit in a bathtub part full of water and rock back and forth you'll find that at the right period (about a second) you can easily get the waves to grow until they overflow the bath. The resonant oscillation of the water is a seiche. Seiches are often generated in swimming pools by small oscillations from earthquakes - the oscillations happen to be at the right frequency for the swimming pools to "catch" them. During the Northridge earthquake of 1994, swimming pools all over Southern California overflowed. During the great Alaska earthquake of 1964, swimming pools as far away as Puerto Rico were set into oscillation!
Tsunamis generate seiches too, although we usually do not consider them as seiches. The predominant period of the tsunami that hit Hawaii in 1946 was fifteen minutes. The natural resonant period of Hilo Bay is about half-an-hour. That meant that every second wave was in phase with the motion of Hilo Bay so that the sloshing of the bay built up. We usually think of the damage to Hilo in 1946 as being simply from the tsunami, but it was really a combination of the tsunami and a tsunami-generated seiche.
Could a seiche counteract a tsunami? I assume here you are asking if a seiche generated by seismic waves could counteract any tsunami generated by the earthquake. Interesting idea! I'm afraid the answer is "no," for two reasons. The first reason is timing. On the deep ocean, tsunamis travel about 800 km/hour (500 mph). That's about 0.2 km/s. Earthquake waves travel much faster, say 8 km/s (i.e., forty times faster). Any seiche excited by earthquake waves will have died down before the tsunami arrives. The second reason is frequency of oscillation. Earthquake waves tend to have most of their energy at periods (the time from one wave crest to the next) of ten seconds to a few minutes. Tsunamis tend to have periods of five minutes to as much as an hour. So a seiche excited by earthquake waves would be at too high a frequency to interact with the tsunami.
How do you pronounce "seiche?" Sigh-shh. The word was introduced to science by the Swiss seismologist F.A. Forel in 1890. The word had apparently long been used in the German-speaking part of Switzerland to describe oscillations in alpine lakes.
Dr. Gerard Fryer
Hawaii Inst. of Geophysics & Planetology
University of Hawaii, Honolulu, HI 96822
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I'm not sure why the whole skit is so legendary. I mean, BOC rocks of course, but there was no Gene Frankel. "THE" Bruce Dickinson confused me because to me "THE" Bruce is the lead singer of Samson and Iron Maiden, who was probably in high school when the Agents Of Fortune album was recorded. (Great frigging album, btw... This Ain't The Summer Of Love, Vera Gemini, Sinful Love, a lot of fantastic tracks apart from Reaper)
Is it just because none of the cast could keep from cracking up?
Enthusiasm! Never misunderstand the power of it!
CowBell=12th Man
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Before coming here I worked in hydrographic survey (Soundings and survey for material removal) thoughout the western lakes. Not necessarily storm driven but, when working in the western basin of Lake Erie (Toldeo) we would have to check our gages frequently... Later on they had them update every minute... You could leave shore with a gage reading and get some distance out... Things would have changed dramatically... Our soundings calibrated to that inaccurate gage reading would then be messed up!
Where I work now you can see what happens from wind driven results. Our upper pool is Lake Michigan... We get a stiff north wind blowing down the entire N-S fetch of Lake Michigan and the water really piles up above us (even know we are 7 miles from the harbor (technically not the mouth, since the river is reversed)). It is not uncommon to see our upper pool gage readings jump a foot or two!
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What causes "slosh" in a lake? I've never heard of it. Is it atmospheric, like a storm surge from a hurricane, where the wind just pushes the water ahead of it?
Engineering against tsunami might be possible...the problem is that the waves themselves are so massive that I don't really know that modern engineering is up to the task. Considering some of the damage from the "Perfect Storm" nor'easter, where the waves (which were just swells) crushed some fairly massive breakwaters, a moderately sized tsunami is probably going to wreck anything you put in front of it. Tsunamis usually pack a lot more power than regular ocean waves.
Atmospheric... Strong sustained winds that push the water... Sudden pressure changes... Usually a strong low crossing over the lakes.
Here is a simple explaination (U of Wisconsin):
Refresh it to see it move...
I also gleaned this:
Believe it or not, rivers do not always flow downstream! Seiche action on Lake Erie, for example, can actually cause the Detroit River to flow north! While unusual, this does occasionally happen. A seiche is a standing wave caused by winds and/or changing barometric pressures, which pile water up at one end of a lake while drawing it down on the other. An everyday analogy is the way in which water in a bathtub sloshes back and forth when a person gets in at one end. On October 16, 2001, a storm-produced seiche resulted in water level changes of 6.5 feet at the western end of Lake Erie over a six hour period!
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I am not sure they have a board? I suggested taking up a collection for all three devoted fans.
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Get what they deserved?
Maybe a shame but, what they deserved? 
Ya... It is a shame the refs said they were sorry and made mistakes after week 2... Funny thing? They never put the points back on the board.
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I know this sounds crazy...
My previous post mentioned inland seiche or slosh which was easily remedied by breakwaters.
I know the ocean is a much larger scale and cost would be tremendous... Also looks wouldn't be that great.
Would it not be possible to protect the highest population areas and historic tsunami "hot spots" with some sort of engineering?
It can't possibly cost as much as the damage and aid being sent there?
Then again... That 80' high breakwater might look kinda crappy while you were sitting out on the beach?
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No. Because of the long fetch over the Pacific, parts of Hawaii gets 40' waves as a matter of routine.
And there's a difference between a 'wave' and a 'tsunami', anyway. When waves come ashore, they break. Tsunami, on the other hand, basically look like the entire ocean moving on to shore as a single large mass...hence the term "tidal wave".
Thanks!
On inland lakes (ie: Great lakes) they are called seiche or slosh. Sometime ago I mentioned how parts of where the Aud is today was put under 10' of water from one such event in the 1800's (before construction of the inner and outter breakwaters at Buffalo Harbor). That event actually swept people out of their beds... That area, a predominantly poor harbor district with many shanty dwellings.
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[sARCASM ON]
Better... How 'bout all the great Pats boards?
[/sARCASM OFF]???
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I like the sig!
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Is everyone really sure we can't play San Francisco again? Isn't there a nuclear strike scenario or something?
Sure, I'd love to see Buffalo beat New England in the AFC Champ. But, I want to see a Bills win in the SB before I die. I could also be dead next March. This is an AFC year, NFC has nothing to show.
There's no way to get a NE - Buffalo playoff game in Buffalo. I'd rather not see the Bills in an AFC Championship game in Foxboro unless Oliver Stone is the Ref.
No one has had much to say about Zebra factor in a while, the Bills have gotten some breaks-and some hits, but breaks lately because they are doing so well. Benefit of the doubt-
But the Pats wouldn't be where they were over the last 4 years if it weren't for the Zebra factor. They are a good, very good team, but in Foxboro they get to cheat a lot more.
Wanna talk about dirty players who get away with a lot? Look to the Pats.
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You can't get a ticket in NE... All the bandwagon yuppies have gobbled them up.
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And without Ralph Wilson floating the Sullivan boy a loan in the '60's... It is quite possible that professional football would have ceased to exist in NE...
Boston/NE football in the begininng was a sorry state, it's fans and even sorrier lot. Go back to the days when they played at Harvard Stadium... You'd find out what a sh*t hole of a franchise had been built.
Kudo's to Bob Kraft... He doesn't begin to tell half the story, just a product of what had been kept on "life-support."
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If I were the ICE of Pats fans, I'd be screaming that my team was billsfanone and running around gnashing my teeth over the tiniest mistake. I'm exactly the opposite. I'm totally confident in this team, its players and its coaches.
And I only bring up Buffalo's problems defensively. If someone wants to say disparaging things about the Pats, I'll come right back at them with something about their team. If they want to talk football and good natured smack then I'll do the same.
I think the screen-name sends the wrong message form the get-go. Even Foxboro Mike acknowledged that and changed his.
You just won't get the benefit of the doubt because what you say gets immediately discounted.
That is too bad.
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I don't mind you spending time here... I actually find it pathetic... Why do you spend time here? Clearly, your screen name is disrespectful...
Enlighten us with engaing dialog form Patriot's nation?
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You can argue all day with me... It doesn't bother me... THE FANS AND THE CITY OF BUFFALO ARE THE BEST... That is all that counts... Throw-backs to a better time. They might lose... But, they REPEAT.
I am quite the revisionist?
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It must really piss off Pat fans that Buffalo has made something of itself... They can't quite feel vindicated for their ideas and actions as long as what they feel was uneeded baggage remain in the league and viable.
I really don't care... What ever works for them... I just enjoy watching the cut-throat NE slugs squirm.
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Come On Martz Baby...
in The Stadium Wall Archives
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Pop a Valium and bring this one home with one headlight!