ExiledInIllinois
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Posts posted by ExiledInIllinois
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I gotta admit I'm more than a little curious about your personal story. You registered just before the hurricane wiped out your house, and in less than a week you're already back online posting from - where? What happened? Where did you go? What did you experience? I hope this isn't just a made-up personality to argue the issue from a perceived moral high ground, because it's unnecessary. And it wouldn't stop a hard case like me from arguing with you anyway.
Except I don't have a problem with the 2k debit card. It's just a start, a temporary quick fix to ensure folks can take care of basic necessities, and when they get into some temporary housing, they're going to need set up house all over again. That can eat 2k pretty quickly. This is short term. Long term help is going to take some time to see how it works out.
That is a bit of a stretch WingNut. Into conspiracy theories?
Heck, I live in Illinois and my families house in Buffalo and New England could get wiped out and I wouldn't have a problem (posting that is).
I am not sure how you interpreted his post to mean immediate family?
He only said families... Right?
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I don't really know. I can look into it... Not sure I will find out, especially now.
Like I am said... I am just a worker.
OT is almost totally frowned upon.
There was a hiring freeze in NO.
What if contracts for maintainance came up in 05? Would they be renewed? Not sure.
That is why I am against contract for maintenance work.
In my job... I am there no matter what... Even the little things will always get done.
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The New Orleans District, Mississippi River Divison, US Corps of Engineers in June, 2004 was cut by over 70 million dollars for FY 2005.
This was the biggest one year cut ever.
Do you think a lot of maintenance fell by the way-side?
What about those pumps?
Don't get me wrong the above pump scenario is just a premise. What do you think gets cut within the district to make up for funding shortfalls?
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And it wasn't called Cat 3... I think it was in your article. In those times the modeling was very rudimentary. They modeled it (levees) to the highest storm known... I forget what they called it in the article.
Later they came up with the scale we use today. It was determined to only be a Cat 3.
So they didn't willfully make it a 3 to their credit... They thought they had the best and then some.
Do you think it was prudent to fix it then when they realized that the new scale grossly proved the levees were under-built?
This all happened about 10 years after they were built.
Then the band-aids came flying...
In the mid-70's when the levees were proved to be grossly inadequate do you think the bureaucrats wanted to here that?
Just like today Dan... The faces change not the thinking.
That is where my sig comes in...
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What FACT they omitted was that the levees that broke were already improved. The ones that had funding cut for their upgrade held . The decision to improve the levees to withstand a Cat3 rather than a Cat5 was made 10 years ago.
All his quotes are articles from the paper or Sidney Blumenthal ( a real impartial source
) .Why didnt he quote actual govt documents?But where they maintained?
You just don't throw up concrete and earth and say see-ya!
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Thanks Ken... Saves me some typing.
Like analogies as much as I do?
But, you forgot to say that no other president gutted funding by 71.5 million in one year.
Just like driving a car. Whose fault is it if the oil light is on in the car and it blows up while you are driving? You gonna blame the slep that used it last? Of course you are gonna. But... In the end it was your responsibility, you were the driver.
Personal responsibilty I guess is lost on people?
GWB's (I bet in his eyes) only problem was that this didn't happen in '09.
This whole situation reminds me of work. Someone takes the tractor out for a whirl and tears it up... Then proceeds to quietly put it back in the garage.
The next day you bee-bop to the garage, hop on and roll... The thing gets forever wrecked.
Who's fault is it?
Should you have checked out the machine first?
It is even worse if you knew the machine was broken?
Or are you just a clueless slep also?
I bet GWB is playing the ditsy role now, even know he kicked it first.
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This thread will have it share of crap being thrown and maybe rightly so.
This will probably be the last thing said in this thread that doesn't innvolve hatred and contempt.
Pasted from the article:
"As heart-wrenching as these evacuees are, and as wonderful as it is to see the outpouring of support, when we invite anybody in our home, we have no idea what their background is," Ms. Donovan said. "As parents, if we open up our home, we need to put up conditions and boundaries. We need to not leave our children alone."
Authorities said never leave children or other vulnerable family members with the people staying in their homes. They urged people to be cautious. Police also said that most people would not take advantage of their generosity.
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It is a start. Makes me feel proud to be an American. I just wish it could be more!
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It sure does. Unfortunately, the "well, it's not coming today so let's worry about something else" mentality is a normal human reaction, and it is practically dogma for government.
My point of course was that the morons crying about Bush's levee funding are completely missing the point (as usual) that the size and scope of any project that would have upgraded the entire system to withstand Cat 5 storms would take billions of dollars and decades to complete (as the article correctly points out). And that was an elephant in the room that has been ignored by everyone who had the power to change it for as long as anyone can remember.
The Article clearly shows the Corps' one way thinking.
The project has got to start somewhere?
My whole point was that Bush was the unlucky dog who bought the lemon.
Of course, I am not blaming him solely. The USACE bears a huge burden for not swaying him and breaking the past cycle.
Bush's watch is on the "breakdown point"... If he would have been doing things to reverse the actions of the last 30 years ago, I could let him off the hook.
GWB's fault is that he played along with the same game... Possibly accelerating these existing problems with the cuts.
The wheel chair was headed off the cliff to begin with... He gave it that extra spiteful push never thinking it would go over on his watch. Well, it did George!
He wasn't even trying... Even making things worse.
You don't drive a beater 100 mph down the highway and not put oil in it.
Not sure the time line... Didn't he have the outs with the former sec. of Army? He then replaced him with his boy.
Stuff like that strongly dictates Corps policy.
I have been posing this question for a week now.
Do you think the massive cuts to the NO District Corps last year possibly took it toll on levee maintainence?
Nobody is mentioning it. The storm is clouding the issue (GWB best scapegoat).
The pumps failing after the surge washed over and before the breaks points to something other than the "storm."
If everything was working fine... Could the levees have handled it and not failed completely?
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People forget that Katrina spared NOLA the brunt of the storm... Actually NO did quite well considering.
The city flooded about 80% because of levee breaks... That I still question if the strom fully caused. The French Quarter and CBD was spared the brunt of this flooding being situated on higher ground near the east bend in the river.
Nothing (electrically) is underground in NOLA... I take everything is "overhead service."
Still remarkable though.
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Who exactly are these "reasonable people" and what support do you have for that claim? My sister in law was rescued from a flooded section of the city within 48 hours of the storm hitting, so no, the federal government wasn't 24 hours late.
She also saw the crimes being committed and who was doing it. As did anyone who was watching CNN as they interviewed looters coming out of the sneaker stores. Any 'reasonable people' will certainly agree on who was committing the crimes.
What are you trying to say here?
Your sister-in-law probably had special priority status?
Who? The looters? The rapists? Etc...
And of course as a reansonable person would do, she saw what was going on and ran the other way.
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Exactly - I was in NO on that Saturday and I see it this way as well. The mandatory evacuation order came AFTER:
1. Almost all gas stations in the city were closed
2. All but one airline had cancelled their Sunday flights out of New Orleans. Why did Delta cancel all their flights after 2pm on Saturday - a full 50 hours before the storm was due? Then, why did AA cancel all flights after 7:15am on Sunday morning - 24 hours before the storm? etc. etc. The airline's decisions to start canceling so early caused thousands of tourists to be stranded.
3. All but one rental car agency had closed their facilities - their employees went home to make plans to evacuate.
4. Most of the city buses had stopped running - again, their employees had gone home to deal with their own families.
The local officials did a great job of standing in front of TV cameras telling people to leave the city. But there was NO DAMN PLAN to offer any method of conveyance to the tourists or the poor.
Emergency plans must come from the local level first.
I am not trying to slam you Aussie... You forget this is America... We only help AFTER the tragedy... Before the crisis, it will cost you!
What you say appears true. Another conundrum. A riddle that appears to be valid one way only to come up invalid all other ways.
Here is a plan... Why didn't they just over-build the levees?
Can the local authorites tell Delta to fly, rental car agencies to open, and gas stations to sell gas?
I agree about the bus thing... Then...
Anything would have been better... Even if they would have put the buses loaded on a gridlocked interstate trying to get out before the storm.
When the storm hit... At least all the bodies would have been in close proximity.
The ones (buses) that didn't get hit by the storm could have driven around in circles until they pumped out NO. (Sean Penn take note!!)
Just as you can tell Delta to fly, gas stations to sell gas, and rental car agencies to stay open... You can surely tell some other area in some other state to take your 100,000k residents.
Just call it the "NOLA Magical Mystery Tour."
Side note... People call a PFD (personal floatation device) a "life-jacket"... I disagree, it is a PFD, it is not necessarily going to save your life.
The buses were exactly that.
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Thanks.
Keep all the great work! I am glad somebody else is work 24/7.
We have a ravaged gulf coast and a major American city that has been lost physically, environmentally and spirtually!
It better be impressive, as a proud American I would expect nothing but the best.
Look at it from the big picture and the response is just awesome.
From the individual human element, hurry up with that water... I am dying here.
Why not the venom?
As an American, I expect everything short of a picnic.
The NOLA side of this tragedy was very avoidable.
The sad part is, us average American taxpayers will be paying a lot more now than if we would have made an investment in preventive maintainence.
Again... Keep up the great work!
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But my compartmentalization idea wasn't meant to provide safe haven. It was meant to slow city-wide flooding (or even stop it), trading portions of the city for time to organize a proper response. This walled-up "safe haven" idea sounds like just the opposite, trading most of the city to keep a portion of it dry. There's no particular reason to think it would solve the problem they had: that things went so bad so fast that in the absence of a coherent plan (or even an incoherent half-assed one) no one had any opportunity to react. You've still got all the problems you had at the Superdome - isolation, infrastructure damage (unless you're postulating encompassing all municipal services inside "The Citadel"), supply stockpiling or lack thereof - but on an even greater scale, enough so that it's not completely unrealistic to postulate that such a solution could cause even greater problems than the existing situation did. The simple fact is that modern cities, unlike medieval cities centered on walled castles, aren't designed to withstand a siege for any length of time. Back then people actually stockpiled...nowadays, it's an "on demand" just-in-time-delivery world. In short, I still don't see how there's any way that would work.
Why so negative?
Better than nothing.
Like getting everybody to another place OUTSIDE the city is a possibility.
So basically you are saying no local plan would work.
The on-demand part you hit the nail on the head.
That is were the FRP comes. NOLA is unlike any other place and depends on that outside help.
NOLA in this scenario is 100% certain to be overwhelmed in it's state and local capacities.
It couldn't have hurt.
Couple the wall plan with an on-demand FRP... What's the argument?
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Hey... What can I say. Everybody is building "short."
But, then you guys scream (okay not you CTM) when the 20 Amp Brigade comes shuffling into town.
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I'm a conservative and i will say it....i think what mother Bush said was an embarrassment. but i will also add....that my guess is that the Presidents parents are not out and about trying to patch up his image any more now then Bush Sr. was when he was traveling all over India 9 months ago.
That is what I don't get. Why do they find the need to patch up GWB's image? How old is the guy?
Do you think it enables him to be a continual eff-up?
The day is gonna come for me as a parent where I will have to say: "After all these swimming lessons, you gotta swim on your own kido!"
It is like GWB's got his own personal set of Jesse Jacksons. That being Sr., Babs and Laura.
What does he do? Kick the cat when he gets home?
And I always thought of myself as a liberal.
Don't you just love stupid questions?
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New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin has approved the forced removal of New Orleans residents today, per CNN.
If you ask me, this, among other things that have happened, has come a couple of days too late. I was watching a "live rescue" attempt last night on MSNBC. Turns out, after all the effort of the USCG crew, he decided to stay...all that time wasted, effort expended, risk taken...now they have to go back there and force him. This could get interesting. We've seen forced evacuations before (just recently, in fact), but I know I've never seen one done in several feet of water. A person who wanted to be trouble could cause major problems to air/boat crews trying to forcibly remove them...it's not like they can just drag them down the street...This could be interesting.
This is necessary, but it's going to be rough on the rescue crews...
I agree.
We must also think that any pre-hurricane plan would have had to deal with this issue.
The day of reckoning for dealing with these issues is here for NOLA and the local authorites.
As much as I can blame them, I can see why they wanted to stick their head in the sand... In a way... Maybe that is why I haven't been as vocal towards pinning blame at that level.
What a cluster eff this has become!
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What the hell are you talking about???? Although I have been to my fair share of demonstrations, exclusively in my youth in Buffalo (30 years ago ) I'm sure that you are confusing me with the same person, (people), that Eryn, BiB, and other sane members of the conservative community here have.
Am I upset, yes I am, am I incenced, yes I am, however it's very disheartening to see people like CD, and you attacking in such a Richio manner. It's hard to watch Mr. Bush stumbling for words again, it's hard to watch even Scarborough, Sheppard Smith, Giraldo, all saying when will this admin. get it's act together and attack this problem?
There was some time ago a BadThings (I think from the NW/Portland, Ore area??) here that I think he is confusing you with?
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I am not sure if you will find this... It was a big picture in the Chicago Tribune.
They showed a guy mowing his lawn (what ever couple square inches of wasteland there was).
It said that he wanted to restore things back to routine.
WTF?
My partner here said: "Take a closer look at the photo, tell me what is wrong with it."
I looked at first and couldn't find a thing (outside the couple square inches of wasteland he was mowing)... My co-worker said look closer, c mon!... So I did.
On the handle of the mower was a tag with the price on it!... Looked like the thing came right off the showroom floor!
You make the call!
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Because everyobody involved knows they can be the scapegoat. On the Federal level, it's the process - not personalities. It took 9/11 to try to change some things, and to this day many are still being fought. That is not an administration issue, either - it's our government, the way they do things. We have lots of laws, and lots of rice bowls. It's going to take Katrina to relook and rethink how other things get done. People are now doing the best they can, I don't think anyone really grasps the scale.
Wow... Nice... Very nice post!
Depends how things go here and where I stand in regards to the immediate staffing mission here at the time, I volunteered to go down there and help with the repair and clean-up.
Some Facts on the Hurricane
in Politics, Polls, and Pundits
Posted
And that FRP (Federal Response Plan) acknowledges and states that even know state and local authorities are primarily responsible... The state and local authorities can become overwhelmed and the federal governement steps in for IMMEDIATE action to prevent human suffering, etc...
I guess it all boils down to what Immediate is? Is four days immediate? Especially for human suffering... Huh?
The FRP (the actual implementation of the plan through various agencies) was there on the ground at 1400 Monday... Or was supposed to be.
Like I said a 1,000 times before, my agency was supposed to take care of ice, water, etc... for the state of La. The distribution networks were being set up in Memphis before Katrina hit.
Not sure what the heck happened?...