MarlinTheMagician

Interesting bunch of comments. I am surprised how many are defensive about the possible role of race in perceptions. As the OP, my main point was that Tyrod's numbers seem to deserve a little more excitement than they have garnered, and that the depth of character of the man (to the extent it can be perceived from the outside), seems to suggest that he can do more. That the trend could be his friend. I was speculating and interested in views on what might be the root of the lack of excitement - I am a Buffalonian, but live in New York City now. The perception here seems to be "Buffalo is still looking for a quarterback." At least for now, we definitely are not! So why that perception? Especially when an INT machine like Blake Bortles is THE answer for Jax - for example. I can identify a few possible factors: lack of ideal size (but not Russell Wilson small), stereotyping of a black quarterback that has sick running ability (Vick disappointed many/fear of injury abounds), relative lack of success down the middle last year (which doesn't worry me too much for reasons beyond this post), and the absence of a proven history of rallying the team to victory (but Tennessee was amazing). I said expressly that it is "not knowable" if race had any role at all - not saying it did. Could just be Tyrod does not get the respect I feel he deserves because he is not 6'5" and didn't stick enough darts on Clay over the middle. If you agree TT might deserve a little more respect, it is a certainty that no one can say for sure why he doesn't get it - especially nationally. My perception is that when the national media talk about top young quarterbacks you hear about Derek Carr, Luck, Bortles, Wilson, Mariotta, Winston and others - but almost never a mention of our guy. That makes me like him more! How Buffalo-esque! I think the media is wrong. I am hugely optimistic for Tyrod based not only on what he did, but how he did it. He was the man in charge. He has presence. He is a straight baller. You often hear about QB's and that intangible "IT" factor. I think Tyrod has "IT" in spades - easy demeanor, hard worker, fire burns bright inside, respected by teammates, instinctive (I think Fitz has "IT" too, he just has poor skills and poor judgment at the worst times). I believe Tyrod has "IT" in a way the rocket-armed, ideal-sized Drew Bledsoe never did (to pick an example of a very good quarterback and a good guy who I do not think had the intangibles needed to be a GREAT quarterback). Some people lost the point of the post - optimism and enthusiasm about "maybe we have a real QB FINALLY" and the seeds of a good defense too. Some seized only on race. Just shows what a flashpoint it can be, as it was never the core point I was making, and not even a firm point at all - just a mentioning of the possibility. As for the "sick of getting kicked in the nads" point, that made me laugh out loud. That is PART of it (a part I could do without, granted). No Goal, wide right, Music City, 4 straight losses in the show, 16 years and not a freaking wild card. Our nads are dented on a legendary scale. Yet we hang in there - makes us so cool ;-) And that much sweeter when TT brings us the Lombardi. Peace. Go Bills.

He reminds me a lot of Fred. Remember thinking that when they showed clips of him after the draft, and reminded of it again watching the clip the poster above was kind enough to put up. Would like them to keep five backs - Shady, two Williams and the winner of Wilder vs. Gillislee in camp? Plus the fullback.

Thanks for the clip - even more stoked now. He is the man. I don't buy the "he could become Wilson." Wilson has been on a GREAT team with a beast running back. With Sammy and McCoy hobbled half the year Tyrod had not so much for many of his starts. As Sammy got fully healthy in second half it was beautiful to watch. Wilson, if he works hard, could become Tyrod some day - except he's too short. I have no problem Whaley playing it a little coy trying to get us the best deal on Tyrod's future, but if he screws it up I will hate him forever (and right now I like Whaley a lot!)

Wilson measured 5'10 and 5/8ths at the combine, so I shorted him the 5/8ths, point is the same - Tyrod a fair bit taller.

Tyron is not that small. He is 6'1" and 215 of muscle. Injury is a big concern of mine, but nothing in his history indicates he will have a future injury problem. I include in that last year, where he took every shot. Missing some itme after that BS horse collar does not indicate frailty. And he played through it, which showed me a lot -- Goodwin would have been out for the season. I grant that injury risk is a key thing, but I prefer a QB that can move, and I think, like Wilson, Tyrod runs smart. He seems to expose himself only when it is a critical time - and I want him to do that, though I hold my breath. Tennessee was amazing. TT is also is also materially taller than Wilson. Wilson 5'10 on his toes, Tyrod is 6'1 on his. He is like 1-2 inches "too small" - not 4 or 5 inches. I think he is better than Wilson, or at least will be. In addition to the better height, Tyrod throws an elite deep ball. They are very similar, both fine field generals. Swap QB's and the Bills with Wilson will be an awful lot like the Bills with Tyrod, and vice versa. I think right now Tyrod can do as well with that Hawks team as Wilson does. I grant that Wilson has shown he is clutch and Tyrod still has to do that more (though Tennessee was impressive). I also get the "show me the baby" concept, but why bother? This team has nothing to do with the Jauron era, or the Fewell era. It is how people used to be so negative about our City. Personally, I find optimism more fun. And I think there is a real chance for it here because we have a QB (in my view). Rob Johnson/Fitz/Snorton/Checkdown - all false hope. So I get the defense mechanism of negativity. Add in Shaq and Ragland, Dareus, Darby, Gilmore and on and on. I think we should be excited. And Brady can't play forever.

No one said anything about racism holding Tyrod Taylor back, and it is funny how people can live in denial of the fact that stereotypes do persist. I think if a bigger, white pocket-passer who didn't run put up Tyrod's 20 TD and 6 INT season as a first year starter there MAY be greater enthusiasm. I can't see how any thinking person cannot at least allow for that possibility. Those that can't probably thought Dennis Shaw as was good as James Harris. And Yolo is right - Tyrod is perceived as more of a "running" QB than he is. It is not knowable whether "black" has any role in that false perception. It could, but it really does not matter. Point I was making is the young man is a baller - leader, worker, team guy, smart and tough. A grinder who overcame odds. A Buffalo guy. He has electric skills that are easy to see. So did Vick. What gives Tyrod the potential for greatness in my view is everything else. And the positive character traits that define the man are talked about in the local media, but not so much nationally. Smart, tough, leader, tireless worker - a Buffalo kind of guy. We sign him long term, he wins our first Super Bowl. And I bet two seats on the 50 he uses the middle just fine this year.

Huge Clay fan. He does it all. My only worry is the knee. A top character guy as well, him and Tyrod both = work ethic/team perspective. Good post.

You know, the board feels like the bloom is off the rose a bit in light of Shaq's injury. Here is a call for perspective. Shaq is a really top talent who very much wants to be in Buffalo. He and Reggie tweet each other about what they want to build here. Washington is a top talent too. Our "D" has a chance to be ferocious, young, fast and mean as heck. I for one will not miss Mario one bit, don't care that Shaq is going to miss a few weeks (hope he does not rush it), and am so stoked about the revamped D. I also think Tyrod is going to be a steely-eyed assassin of a quarterback and a straight superstar. What he did as a first year starter was pretty amazing, and he has a unique talent set. What I love though is his work ethic, his intelligence, his natural leadership skills and that it seems he has ice water in his veins. He will be a field general this year that organizes the offense like Kelly used to. You could see the early signs of that last year. There is no young QB in the NFL that I would rather have other than Luck. And after this year, maybe not him either. Not saying it is overt racism (though it may be for a few), but I can't help but feel Tyrod is undervalued in part because of stereotypes that linger for black quarterbacks that can run. He is not Vick. He does not make bad decisions and chuck it up, and he does not run in a way where he is likely to injure himself. He seems very smart. He was very durable last year and missed a little time because of a dirty as heck horse collar. He did it laying it on the line at a crucial time in a game that we could not afford to lose if we wanted to be in the hunt. He willed us to victory. And I was up in Boston for the Monday night game a few weeks later - it was clear he was still hurt, but he sucked it up and played. He is tough as nails. We should get behind this young man until he gives us a reason not to. He is one of my favorite Bills in many, many years. Sorry - darn auto correct. Should have been "Shaq, Reggie and Tyrod" Also - you can fire away now, but note that I put it here: Tyrod is going to win Buffalo's first Super Bowl. D

You know, the board feels like the bloom is off the rose a bit in light of Shaq's injury. Here is a call for perspective. Shaq is a really top talent who very much wants to be in Buffalo. He and Reggie tweet each other about what they want to build here. Washington is a top talent too. Our "D" has a chance to be ferocious, young, fast and mean as heck. I for one will not miss Mario one bit, don't care that Shaq is going to miss a few weeks (hope he does not rush it), and am so stoked about the revamped D. I also think Tyrod is going to be a steely-eyed assassin of a quarterback and a straight superstar. What he did as a first year starter was pretty amazing, and he has a unique talent set. What I love though is his work ethic, his intelligence, his natural leadership skills and that it seems he has ice water in his veins. He will be a field general this year that organizes the offense like Kelly used to. You could see the early signs of that last year. There is no young QB in the NFL that I would rather have other than Luck. And after this year, maybe not him either. Not saying it is overt racism (though it may be for a few), but I can't help but feel Tyrod is undervalued in part because of stereotypes that linger for black quarterbacks that can run. He is not Vick. He does not make bad decisions and chuck it up, and he does not run in a way where he is likely to injure himself. He seems very smart. He was very durable last year and missed a little time because of a dirty as heck horse collar. He did it laying it on the line at a crucial time in a game that we could not afford to lose if we wanted to be in the hunt. He willed us to victory. And I was up in Boston for the Monday night game a few weeks later - it was clear he was still hurt, but he sucked it up and played. He is tough as nails. We should get behind this young man until he gives us a reason not to. He is one of my favorite Bills in many, many years. Check out Shaq's video about coming to Buffalo. https://twitter.com/Shaq_Lawson90?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

One stands out. I was eight, Pats at Bills in 1970. Dennis Shaw is garbage entire first half. It is freezing rain, seats are soaked and we are all wearing garbage bags under our clothes. Raw, disgusting day. James Harris comes off the bench and rallies the team. Long pass to Willie Grate I remember. I read Willie died in 1980 at age 35, what a shame - I wonder how. Anyway, now it is late in the game, they are down at the goal line looking to pull out a win. Bills take a time out. Inexplicably they pull Harris and put Shaw back in. I could not believe it, my Dad couldn't either. It was like they wanted to give Shaw the chance to be the hero. We lose 14-10. Oh what we had in Shack Harris and Marlin Briscoe. If they had developed Shack instead of treating him like garbage we could have avoided some really bad years before Fergie got here. What he did in Los Angeles a couple years later was historic. What an arm, smart guy, hard worker. Just retired as pro personnel guy for the Lions. Early memories of 50 years+ of Bills love and frustration. Another stands out as well. First game, Raiders at Bills in 1967. I was five. Dad and I knew the glory years were past, you could feel it. But team was not yet horrible. I never saw grass so green, stadium seemed huge and oozed character. Bills lost in a tight one on a gorgeous day. Felt like Buffalo had a real "in City" community in those days. Shame it was lost. Maybe we can get it back now.

Man - all the negativity is going to look bad when we finally win our Super Bowl. Maybe this year . . . or next, or next . . . .

I want some of those beers Rhino's emoticon's are enjoying - get off work, settle in for draft.

While Rex gets some of the credit, hard not to give Whaley at least some credit for Taylor. I do not understand the desperation that some have for a different spin of the wheel in the crapshoot to get a "franchise" QB, or those that say with certainty that Tyrod is "not a franchise QB." In my humble opinion such statements are based in significant part on biases over size and against QBs that can run. I do not assume Tyrod can't be that guy. He is a natural leader. He is a tireless worker. He is a gamer. He has an adequate arm and exceptional athleticism. Does he need to improve in some areas (release, vision, and using the entire field)? Sure he does - but I think he had a hell of a year for a first year starter. If he does not get hurt maybe we make the playoffs and everyone is in a different mood. He is elite right now with his deep ball and his scrambling ability. Been a long time since we had a QB that was elite at ANYTHING and I for one am thankful for Hotrod Taylor. The young man has a history of beating the odds, and while I don't think his future is a given I am rooting for him. Take a developmental QB if he is a value, but go all in on Tyrod for now. My kind of player.

I think Whaley has done a great job. In 50 years of fandom, he is the first GM I feel we have had that is constantly looking to improve the roster at all levels and is willing to be creative to do it. I don't blame him for EJ at all - we needed a QB badly, and given his measurables it was a reasonable gamble to pick EJ where we got him. Probably doesn't work out (he has one more shot), but give him some credit for taking EJ over Gino the atrocious who was more highly rated. It is not Whaley's fault Mario tanked it in a pout last year. Or that much of the D was racked with injuries. And I can't believe he still is accused of trading "two ones and a four" for Sammy. He traded a first - and got the 4 back for Stevie Johnson. Sammy was a great move and one of our best assets. He is still young too. Give him some time and gain some stability. I don't care what the press says. I think he is a strong GM.

Covered in prior posts. Our offensive core for now is Sammy, Tyrod, Shady (for a while, then maybe Special K), Clay, and Glenn, plus Wood and Incognito while they are here. Defensive core: Mo Wilkerson (or pick another Mario replacement), Dareus, Hughes, Gilmore and Darby. Defense is talent-light after that, which is why we were romped all year. Keeping the old guys does not help that. Never suggested Aaron Williams be cut - count him as core if he can go. Core is definitely not: Lawson, McKelvin and Graham. Kyle is not core in this system, and he is old, hurt and expensive. Mario - we know the deal there. You have made my point - we need another core player on D if Mario goes! Whaley said as much.

Couple of comments on some of the preceding posts: I like the fellow's proposed cuts/restructures above but -- would absolutely cut Glass Goodwin and the Duke of Dumb. That is a meaningful amount of change too, as they have been around for a bit. In my view they add nothing (Goodwin literally, and the Duke makes some plays, but then cancels them out with dumb ones). Since they are zero loss (that is, they have no net value) there is no reason to pay more than minimum to replace them. Because our core is in place (agree with that part of a prior post), and we have decent to very good starters at most positions even with the cuts I propose, it is the time to add young players with physical skills or high achievement in college and develop them. Such players are picks (often rounds 4-7) or folks off practice squads, and they are cheap because they are not ready for prime time. The starters we have allow us the luxury of developing players,. A new concept for the Bills. For me, this is the only way to truly "build through the draft" (a concept so loved I have never heard it degraded since George Allen. It is like being for Mom and apple pie), This is so because (as the prior poster said) a team usually only gets one or two starters per draft. Our core being in place also helps make my point about Mo. Adding a few "mid-level guys" rather than a marquee guy with the cap space is a bad play in my opinion, We had to do that in the Jauron/Chan-eras because Ralph was cheap and we had a talent-starved roster. Think Langston Walker - high failure rate. Baseball style moneyball does not work in football in my view. Impact players win games, and I think mid-levels can be the road to ruin -- they are cheaper and available for a reason. Bringing in to many also sends the wrong message to the youngsters you are developing. I believe Mo Wilkerson has an effective failure rate of near zero barring injury. The only vets I would cut other than Mario either don't start or don't add meaningful value over the alternative (back-up). Vets that are cut for such reasons should not be replaced with like-salaried guys - everyone knows you must build through the draft! So you replace them with the young (cheap) folks you are developing. In Sanu's case, I feel we may well know the reason why he is available -- Bengals have much tied in position, and not enough balls to go around (plus I love his arm - he is so freaking multiple). I like the way Bradham hits, but I feel he needs a "show me" deal and probably knows it -- a year or two, if he performs he can get paid. Great last year, regressed this year in my view. Not time for a long-term lock down. If it requires that, I pass. Damon Harrison is not considered a mid-level guy. He is an elite run stuffer. Go Bills!

In fairness - I did a lot of that already. Other than Mario (whom should be replaced with another marquee talent at end or outside linebacker), I don't think any of the other guys I mentioned are any meaningful loss and should all be replaced by younger developmental players you can and should get on the cheap. Leodis and Graham - I would not "replace" with anyone beyond what is on roster. I would develop younger corners/safeties from draft, practice squad. We have our starters, and I don't think they offer much beyond what we already have. I think corners are good, would pick a safety, possibly pretty high if BPA. Mario - Mo. You don't like him, there are lots of other FA options. We need another anchor talent on D if we ditch Mario, as Whaley has recognized. Urbik - if Cyril Richardson can't replace him, he has had no business hanging around for two years. ​Kyle - not a scheme fit, need at least one D-Line pick. Like Wynn better right now if healthy. Lawson - big area of need in my view. We need a couple of outside backers in the draft that can run and cover. If you don't go DL with the Mario money (I like Mo, did I say?), consider guys like Demario Davis or Irvin.

Will do that when work stops getting in the way. Not saying "cut all the old guys" - I am saying cut the old guys that are not additive, or additive commensurate with their cost. Kyle is not additive commensurate with cost in a 3-4 in my view. Leodis, Graham, Lawson, Urbik -- all on the downside and need to be upgraded. Will go through it.

I kind of share that view, but question whether he is game aware enough for the job. Rex needs a true safety to help get everyone in position. What was the name of the guy we had, that played for Jets and Baltimore? We got him back at end of his career a couple of years ago and he helped organize the D for Pettine -- also a punt returne, small but tough. Rex needs a guy like that with more physical talent.

Seemed it at times! Second Leodis should have been K. Williams. Revis is a good point on Leodis and Graham though. NY Press all saying Revis at 30 is not the "shut-down" corner he was and fretting over what the Jets do with his big deal because he can't run with young guys like Sammy. If that applies to Revis, it especially applies to the technique-lacking Leodis and the never-so-fast Graham (who I like and seemed always to get to the right spot - but much later than needed).

Thanks for the link. Very interesting. Have you looked at whether it has a big impact on us? Do we agree on the numbers more or less? Seems we can still make some strategic use of the designation. Remembering from yesterday, I don't think it has a huge impact on the money I was suggesting we could have, but it certainly has some. What do you think?? Kyle, Leodis, Graham, Lawson, Urbik, Carpenter -- I would be looking very hard at all of those guys. Seems Kyle should be a candidate for some restructure/cut given age/injuries. I love him, but think he is not a plus in a 3-4.

And the thought on Tyrod's future contract - which I believe he will earn subject only to staying healthy (a pretty big if, unfortunately) -- is that it is taken care of by accretion in cap number. Big slots for 3-5 year frame; Dareus, Gilmore, Taylor, Glenn, Shady (probs out after 3 max, then have to pay Darby), Hughes - then Sammy. Agree that will be a bunch of space. Who else is a big number? Dropping off - probably Wood at some point. If Taylor earns it, I am good with a core of Sammy, Tyrod and Glenn on offense, Hughes Dareus, Gilmore, Darby and MO on defense, for several years.

Hopeful - good points on the June 1 limit. Didn't know you could only do two, so that requires some modification downward. I don't think it is that material. I agree on the "can't just cut this or that guy" - was not trying to do that lightly. But to me, our D looked old and slow this year. Mario, Lawson, Graham, McKelvin and Leodis -- all are 30+. I don't think we would really miss any of them very much. I am assuming Aaron Williams returns, put him in back with Rambo, Meeks and a pick. On the corner - I don't think losing Leodis is a big downgrade, I like Gilmore, Darby, Robey and Butler just as much without him. Add a developmental corner. Only one I think is a talent loss is Mario, and I think he needs to leave. Duke Williams? No thanks. Offense and special teams - Urbik, Goodwin, Carpenter. You going to miss any of those? Not me. Urbik also 30+, and plus the defensive cuts we are removing six 30+ guys of questionable value add for a 26 year old Wilkerson and 27 year old Sanu. Keeping all these older guys just because they have been with us is how teams get old, and tying up $$ in them is how you lose. IMHO. Thanks for your post! One related point: This situation is part of why I like the Whaley re-sign. We don't have the mountain of cap space we once had, but we are cap maneuverable. A lot of the team upgrades seem to have been done with some cap flexibility in mind. I think Whaley should get some credit for that, no?

It is significantly reported in NY that Jets may not tag Wilkerson. Could easily use tag on Harrison. Not expecting Mo to be FA, but could certainly happen. It seems to me the money post above by BarleyNY agrees with the view I expressed on money, even though it says my post does not paint an accurate picture. This is interesting, not trying to argue - trying to get a good handle. Let's say BarleyNY and I agree that we have $19 million after Harvin exit, Clay restructure and Mario cut. Says we get $5 million for Kyle, but I think it is $6 after June 1. For argument's sake - call it $25 million. Then do the math - available on Over the Cap - for cutting Leodis, Urbik, Carpenter, Graham, Duke Williams and Glass Goodwin. Quickly gets you $35+ million (and there are some other cuts we could make as well - for example, Lawson another 30+ guy). We don't need any of those - most over 30, Duke not a smart player and Glass is valueless. Subtract what Barley says we need for Cordy - he says $7 mm, but let's use $9. That leaves $26mm. Barley agrees long-term deal for Gilmore is cap neutral, at worst. Minus Incognito -- no way I would sign him for $7-8 Barley suggests. Old guard with a history. I will assume $5 mm. That leaves $21 mm. What do you spend it on? Sanu will cost about $3.5 by all projections. Mo Wilkerson will not be more than $15 vs. cap. Can do all of that. Unless one values Leodis, Urbik, Graham, Duke and Glass a lot higher than I do, this is what I would do. You have $2.5 left over.

Seems to be true on draft availability, but I would rather draft a tackle, safety or LB and sign Mo. We don't know if any of those DEs will work out, and I cannot think of a better use for the money we save by ditching Mario and some waning 30+ talent (all pretty mediocre other than Kyle, who we could restructure). As demonstrated above, is not a question of sign our guys Glenn, Incognito and Gilmore OR get Mo. We should sign our guys first, but that would not nearly consume the $$$$ we could create by ditching some over-paid old guys. Assume our guys take $18 million $11 for Cordy, $3.5 for Incognito and $3.5 more for Gilmore ($11 of Gilmore's is already in our cap number), but you have $40 mm. What would you do with the other $22m? Spend on McKelvin, Graham, Urbik and Kyle? I would not. Mo is roughly the same age as Dareus and Hughes -- could be a new Cold Front for five years.