sherpa
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Posts posted by sherpa
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12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:
So I guess I'm not clear on why they couldn't unboard the plane for some reason (clean-up?), then reboard everyone who was not acting up and take off?
I "get it" that crew hours, landing slots at the destination, departure controls due to weather etc etc may have been involved. Just sort of sounds like if the concern is "legal quagmire", dumping a bunch of teens at the airport overnight is a bit of a quagmire anyway.
You can't simply get them off and get the others on.
There are security issues and that takes time and manpower.
Again, there was a lot of off schedule stuff there because of severe storms earlier, so the manpower was undoubtedly stressed, limiting who could handle the issue.
Regarding the issue of them staying at the airport, that was the only possible solution and although it wasn't mentioned, I guarantee that personnel were in place to watch the situation closely and protect against any other incident.
It is simply the best solution. Other proposals would have been far more risky.
Those kids were probably provided blankets, pillows and supervision.
27 minutes ago, Doc said:Aren't the airlines allowed to kick-off anyone they want, if they're not following their rules?
Yep.
If it would have been one two or maybe a few more, that's what would have happened.
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1 hour ago, Doc said:
How? Either you cancel the flight or kick these morons off of it, they're going to have to call mommy and/or daddy to get them anyway.
The airline is not a law enforcement organization.
Are they supposed to sit everyone down and have an illegal hearing?
Airport cops are not staffed enough to handle this either. Nor do they want to.
Thirty kids to handle and decide who stays and who goes. Way too much work and way too much time and would undoubtedly result in lawsuits.
Are they to take statements from the other passengers?
"Mommy and Daddy" are not going to come from Boston to Charlotte to pick them up, so do you fly them back to Boston?
Not likely, and the lawyers would be overwhelming, because they'd all be individual cases.
It would be a legal quagmire.
What about the bags?
How long would that take to get sorted out?
How many people?
Charlotte had a very rough weather day that day. The airplane had already been swapped out once and that certainly took some time.
How about crew duty time limitations?
Probably not an issue, but how about destination curfew issues including customs/immigration and the current presence of Covid screeners?
Regarding a previous post about "teaching them a lesson," that is hardly the airlines' task.
The point is that it is much more complicated than it was presented in the very limited story published.
It's unfortunate that those not involved had to wait until the next morning, but when a group of idiots behaves like this is has effects on others.
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5 hours ago, Limeaid said:
None of them were charged.
I cannot not figure out (and surprised no one asked airline) why they did not just leave those who refused to wear masks at airport.
Because it's a lot more complicated than that.
One, two or three passengers, not that big of a deal.
Thirty, and minors is a big deal and presents a very complicated issue that would require a lot of people and a lot of time to sort out.
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Simpson and Barry Sanders were the only running backs I ever saw that if you watched the body language of singular open field tackers, you could see they knew they were already beat.
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1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:
"What is brisket?"????
WTF is going on down there??
Seriously?
Ever been to Texas?
Ever eaten BBQ?
I slow cook it least six times a year.
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Simply a brilliant document.
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
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9 hours ago, Gene1973 said:
What the NAVY is seeing is not a craft, but plasma created by a min of 3 coincident lasers creating plasma balls that show up on radar. The fast speeds and accelerations are possible with no sound and no sonic booms. Russia and China are laughing their asses off at the clueless Pentagon.
The Navy is well aware of laser caused plasma images in the IR spectrum.
They've been working on it for ten years as a missile decoy system.
In fact, they have a patent on the technology.
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Simpson had this technique that I've not seen anyone else display.
He would take the hand off, and if not immediately engaged, he would drop his shoulders to lower his center of mass, enabling him to cut quicker.
A kind of "glide" mode, waiting for defenders to commit.
Then he would cut and make the defenders miss, coming out of the glide.
Of course as an Olympic level sprinter, if he got away from the second level it was al over.
Just a special athlete and joy to watch.
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16 minutes ago, Utah John said:
Simpson could do that because he knew he was faster than the guy closest to him, so he didn't have to worry about the guy right behind him. Today, the LBs and DBs are faster. Of course Simpson would have found a way to be better than anyone else today, too, just as he did back in the day.
Simpson never worried about anybody behind him, and being faster than the guy closest to him didn't much matter either.
The guy had a gift. He was simply more in tune with what you could do to him than you were, and he would prevent it.
I saw him in practice about five times. He was at another level.
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Simpson was a remarkable athlete.
Somebody, some time ago, I think it was Sports Illustrated, did a thing about a concept called kinesthetic sense.
It discussed the ability to predict what would happen based on looking at what was happening now.
In short, in a sports related application, the skill provides one with the ability to foresee what will happen.
Kind of boring and complicated, but they talked about the truly great athletes. I remember them mentioning Larry Bird and Juice.
Bird could run a fast break, and remember where every single defensive player was, well after the break.
Simpson was the same.
If you look at videos of him and especially the ones that show his eyes, you can see that he is already not worried about the closest defender, he is setting up the next.
Great fighter pilots have that same skill, though it is a lost art.
The ability to project kinesthetic sense at a high level is a rare skill.
Simpson was like watching someone further evolved.
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On 6/29/2021 at 10:08 PM, Mr. WEO said:
But no, all he had to do was change it from a derogatory, racist name to anything else and no one would have bothered him. What could be more simple?I heard one of their execs talk about it for about 15 mins last year, and it's quite complicated on a lot of different fronts.
Much more involved than I thought.
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Nobody said we were going to die if we didn't invade Iraq.
Iraq was in gross violation of the 1991 ceasefire agreement.
The US was running a no fly zone combat air patrol that was getting shot at, and there was no way that was going to continue.
That mission was going to end, one way or another.
The US Intel services had nobody on the ground there.
They relied too much on defectors that proved to be useless and self serving.
Both House and Senate Intel Committees received the exact same intel an judgements from that intel that the White House did.
They voted.
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10 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:
You told us. Are you going to have to kill us all now? 😟
No You're safe.
Constant Peg was declassified in 2006.
When I was in the Pacific Fleet Adversaries, the bad guys, we used to fight the Migs regularly. We were forced to sign agreements that if we ever said anything, they would wipe us and everyone we knew out.
Very serious stuff.
They kept them in hangars to avoid Soviet recon satellite pics.
You'd hold about 15 miles north, then they'd taxi out, takeoff and you'd fight them for about 20 mins.
We were told never to try to land there.
One day, i was the duty officer at the Adversary Squadron and my CO was over there. The plan was to fight them, then tank, (air to air refuel), then come back. During the tanking, something happened and the tanker sent a bunch of raw fuel into the air. It went own my CO's intake, exploded when it hit the compressor, blew out his right main landing gear doors, and a total hydraulic failure ensued. Losing the flight controls, he had to go in there. No brakes, so he rolls to the end and into the barricade.
He wasn't hurt, so they blindfolded him and drove him 90 miles to Naval Air Station Fallon, NV.
We wanted to send our maintainers to fix the airplane, but they would hear none of that. The accident report was altered to indicate it happened at Fallon Naval Air Station.
They disassembled the airplane, put it on a truck and drove it to Fallon where we got it fixed a month later.
Funny times.
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31 minutes ago, Canadian Bills Fan said:
I am bringing it back! feel free to contribute! Just going to post with facts that I found interesting!
They really aren't that secret.
They just aren't a passenger airline.
They use normal air traffic control freqs.
The people who work at the Groom Lake complex, known as Area 51, and the folks who work at Tonopah Test Range, which is about 70 miles further NW from Groom Lake, get shuttled back and forth on a daily basis. Not all, but many.
From time to time the Air Force will do it with their own transports, but mostly it's done by Janet 737's.
They use to leave from Nellis AFB, but since everyone lives in or near Las Vegas, they operate from McCarran Intl. Airport and save them the drive to Nellis, which isn't that far away.
Everybody who operates out of the Nellis complex knows about it, there is just no reason for other folks to.
Funny, I haven't talked about the Tonopah Test Range for years, and just yesterday I got an email asking me something about it.
We used to operate in the Nellis complex and the restricted area which serves Tonopah Test Range regularly.
(See "Operation Constant Peg).
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27 minutes ago, Heitz said:
I like that the government says "We don't think they're extraterrestrial or Russian or Chinese." Okaaaaay, who DO you think possess this future tech? Is it Gates, Besos or Musk? 🤣
DIG UP THE OCEAN UFO, US GUMMERMENT!
I believe they've said they don't know, and they've never acknowledged the existence of "future tech."
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14 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:
It did stand for 40 years.
No matter.
It should never collapse.
Code in place, if abided by, would prevent it.
The Miami construction industry is notorious for corruption.
The latest terminal at their airport was held up twice as the contracting company refused to bribe the construction group.
I have no idea what caused this, but I do know that the building industry in Miami is as corrupt as can be, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was found to not be to code.
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35 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:
You’re kidding, right? THEY created the myth.🤦♂️
Great.
Not going there.
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4 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:
According to the bibly, they have EVERYTHING to do with the inhabitants of planet earth.
The "bibly?"
The inhabitants of the planet earth have little to do with the existence of heaven or hell, or what course one takes to experience them.
Either way, if you want an accurate representation of earth, use a globe.
If you want to navigate it, use a Lambert Conformal, the way the aviation world does.
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2 minutes ago, Bills fan since 87 said:
The ONLY Ceviche is Peruvian and specifically Lima Ceviche. That's what my wife would have you believe at least. Funny you mention that, we have an out of town friend visiting tonight and that is what she is making along with Causa
You are correct that it is very good.
There is one better though.....The ceviche at Los Tajibos in Santa Cruz, Bolivia.
I like it so much that I tried to get the marinade exported to the US for marketing purposes when I retired.
My favorite food.
Your friend is in for a treat.
If your wife has any ceviche secrets, PM me.
I love the stuff.
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39 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:
Ergo, no ‘Descended into Hell’/‘ascended into Heaven’.
juss sayin’🤷♂️
Heaven and hell have nothing to do with the planet earth.
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Work related, i travelled all over South America from about 2002 until 2010. It was more difficult to get TV access, but still possible at various bars in the large cities I travelled to. There was always a place, and more options with each passing year.
Because of the nature of my job, bars were not a frequent, favorable option.
What I would do is listen to the radio broadcast and watch either CBS or ESPN Gametracker in my hotel room.
From reading threads on our work related message board, which I still do even though retired, the guys who travel there have no problem finding TV coverage except in places like Bolivia.
Speaking of the Miraflores area of Lima.....Great ceviche.
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Drew Rosenhaus. 🤪
He was Willis McGahee's agent when he was drafted.
He staged a fake scene with him to make it look like NFL teams were talking to him, then after he was drafted said Willis would be fine to play in his rookie year.
Known bender of truth.
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9 minutes ago, Wacka said:
Because he is senile.
Maybe because he is a career politician, wherein getting votes trumps ideological belief, when ideological belief might cost votes.
It is theologically incongruent to claim to be Catholic and yet support abortion.
The two cannot coexist.
Biden is, first and foremost, a politician.
His Catholic claim is a convenient exercise.
You can't have it both ways.
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55 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:
It is somewhat hypocritical of the Catholic Church since Jesus preached about love the sinner, forgiveness etc.
Not sure what your point is here.
Forgiveness is based on admitting an activity is sinful, and seeking to eliminate it.
The Catholic Church believes that abortion is eliminating human life.
Continuing to support it does not meet the requirement for "forgiveness," your term.
Pats* fans cause trouble, get flight canceled
in Off the Wall
Posted
Lots of issues here, and lots of corporate experience that industry had in dealing with this type of thing, and paying large sums defending their actions.
First, he can't simply disembark and airplane and re-board it.
There are security issues that I'm not going to go into in detail, but essentially, if you are denied, your checked bag is denied.
Not hard to connect the dots on why, but running a bag in the cargo compartment and removing it takes time.
Running, potentially, thirty of them would take a long time.
Second, when you attempt to decide which kids are the problem, you open yourself up to claims from those who will claim they weren't, which would probably be most or all of them. There is no time or legal apparatus to handle this at departure time when a number of clocks are ticking, unknown to passengers or readers of message boards.
Ergo, you get into a situation that is unsolvable in the time frame essential to solve it.
Responding to another post, police have jurisdictions. You can't call a department of your choice and have them handle an airport situation.
Without arresting them, requiring cause, you can't hold them.
Providing that due cause would require witness testimony.
None of that is going to happen in the window of an airline departure.
The best solution is what was chosen.
I'm sure these kids viewed the results of their actions as counterproductive to their Bahama vacation.
The airline paid for hotel and meals for the other passengers.
Sucks being part of a culture that has these miscreants, but is is what it is.
Further, I really doubt any rational human being would view punks as "heroes to emulate," and I think upcoming court cases and fines are going to dissuade such "heroes."