sherpa

This is looking like a "blue on blue" incident, which means it was shot down by it's own forces, probably Patriot. It was not shot down by Russian defenses. Evidently Zelensky fired his Air Force Commander over this. It is always really difficult to make sure you don't shoot down your own guys, and they apparently have not figured this out.

Totally disagree. Much, much easier to make WMD appear.

So it was easier to cover up a conspiracy involving the US intel apparatus including more than one organization than it would be to plant a suitcase or two of "stuff" into a building? OK.

I saw the bat signal in the sky. I don't get involved in this Jan stuff though. Don't know enough about it and was not interested to find out, but standard riots of stupid morons don't get me into the research.

That doesn't answer the question. You said they "lied." I suggested that if indeed lied, they would have placed the proof there. During and after the regime's fall, they had full access to the real estate and airspace. If it was a "lie" they most likely would placed the proof to defend against the lie allegation. That is the point I am making, and not interested in going over the value or results, but there was another issued that was involved, and that was it was becoming very obvious we weren't going to maintain no fly zones, but that was far from the reason for the action, just a factor.

You still haven't answered the question. No worries from me. The US did not know about Pearl Harbor. The US did not know, but should have if there had been reasonable response to evidence the FBI had about 9-11, and WMD in Iraq was thought to be a fact by the US, and other intel agencies.

No, and you can avoid it again. Not my concern. If the Bush group lied, which means intentional, planned deception, why wouldn't they plant the WMD to make their case? Incredibly easy to do, yet wasn't. No lie here. No lie at Pearl harbor, which I noticed you snuck in. And the reason is that they did not "lie."

You haven't answered the questions posed at all. No surprise.

Thanks for taking this sidebar. Appreciated. This issue, as painful as it is for us, all of us, exposed what the politics of this brings. The Dems approved the mission, in overwhelming numbers, having been presented the exact same evidence from the intel community that the executive was. When it was determined to be wrong, a failure of the intel community, they backed out, blaming it on the Bush Admin. Same as they backed out when Pelosi claimed she was never informed about interrogation techniques, which is preposterous. They do the same thing every time.

Ya. True.

There was no view on the US' side that Iraq had "cooperated." CIA finding. US intel finding.

I'm not sure you have an understanding of what the US was capable of after Desert Storm. As you recall, we eliminated them from Kuwait. We did not "disarm" them, to use your phrase, as we did not occupy acreage in Iraq. The no fly zones were meaningless in this discussion, but that issue, which is a different subject, led to the decision to eliminate the regime. In other words, the decision was more than simply WMD.

Two questions for you if you believe this, which it seems you do. If it was a complete lie from Bush/Cheney, how did they get the entire US intel apparatus, along with those of other countries to go along with it? Most of them a career people, not affiliated with any Pres/VP. Second, given that we flew thousands of transports from here to there during the issue, if they were lying, why wouldn't they have included WMD evidence in one of those and planted it, thus saving the embarrassment? It really would have taken only one, and there were thousands.

No to the Ukraine supersonic capability. Yes to the Russian air defense system.

There is simply no defense for the hideous withdrawal from Afghanistan. Want to get out? Manage it like a professional military is capable of doing. Leaving friends to die and God knows how much material is inexcusable. It is a disgrace and for me, the final Biden straw, made worse when he denied other options presented, when his own SECDEF and Joint Chief of Staff admitted there were, and they were proposed.

At sea, off the carrier at night, you are incredibly aware of any unusual noise. You are so used to the sound of the engine and pressurization system that anything unusual is noticed. It's pitch black on moonless nights. If there's some weird noise not identifiable, we used to call the "night noises." I was checking the maintenance log prior to a flight on a particular airplane and saw a previous flight writeup: "Airplane makes night noises during the day."

I'm more on the taciturn side of he loquacious/taciturn spectrum. I have no interest in discussing this, but to state that the entire US intel operation thought the Iraqi's had WMD, which they had used before. Not a doubt. Suggesting that Obama was responsible for finding bin Laden is the same as suggesting Nixon was responsible for Apollo 11.

Bush didn't run the CIA bin Laden thing, the CIA did. It took time and a bit of luck, but they eventually found the courier who led them. You seem like a high school kid to me. No knowledge of how this is done or how it worked out, simply Tibs level of political nonsense.

Absolute nonsense. Further, it didn't "take "Obama to get bin Laden." The CIA had been working on it for years, and story and the result is obvious. Obama approved it. Biden disapproved it, though nobody paid attention to him, thankfully, and nobody cared.

More nonsense. The removal of Saddam was a US Congress and UN approved mission. It was a brilliantly executed military operation, as was Afghanistan. Then it became nation building. Then it invited Iran, which is the single worst operator in the world along with Russia, an item threat that the Dems have never had any success dealing with, and only will get worse.

No. Everyone decides on an opinion. Biden had the power, based on our putting him position to do this. He did it, and it was a disgrace. He didn't have to do it this way. He was given the option by his JCS Chairman and his Sect. of Defense. He chose not to take those options, and then lied about them being suggested. He hasn't got anything right in 40 years.

There is no way that what trump negotiated with the Taliban would ever have resulted in this embarrassing, horrible escape from Afghanistan. Only Biden and his ilk were capable of this, and it went back to a personal thing between he and Obama. Again, absolute nonsense. A disgrace.

Again. Absolute nonsense.

Absolute nonsense.

No Vernors consideration?