sherpa
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The Huffington Post reports, “Police Stood By As Mayhem Mounted in Charlottesville:
State police and national guardsmen watched passively for hours as self-proclaimed Nazis engaged in street battles with counter-protesters.”
Trial lawyer Robert Barnes tweets that ACLU of Virginia “confirms that police were given stand-down order.
This invited the violence the city used to shut down a court-permitted protest.”
This is an incredibly stupid post.
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This freedom of speech thing is an oft discussed red herring.he fact is that people came to our town
1. With weapons.
2. With obviously hateful posters. I saw them as they "paraded" with this crap to the "protest area."
2. Looking to cause trouble.
3. Used hate speech in an effort to incite.
4. Senselessly lit up goofy torches and intentionally marched through the University of Virginia campus on Friday night for no other reason than to incite.
They got what their actions clearly invited and now three people are gone and a number are injured.
Forgive me if I shed no tears over their free speech complaints.
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We need to build a wall around our city.
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Tiki torches? Bwahahaha
You think that's funny?
Do you get it?
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Neither. The driver of the car was a POS and if you're out in the streets in Charlottestville today, you're not a particularly bright person.
This is occurring in a really small area, and unfortunately for the rest of us, taking care of a number of things, often charitable, goes on.
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So a white supremacist gathering to protest the removal of a statue that represents our history is causing all of the problems? Now we have BLM and other counter protestors confronting them with the hopes of keeping them from exercising their free speech rights. Anyway one looks at it it's apparent that if the counter protestors were not trying to trample on free speech rights then there would be no violence. It would appear that they are the troublemakers.
Just remember a David Duke endorsement of Trump is not the same as a Trump endorsement of Duke.
Nonsense.
This is intentional provocation, and that is not in any way an intent to excuse the response.\
But ........You recruit thousands to show up in a small town with disgusting, racial, hate filled innuendo as a motive, then you show up on the University of Virginia grounds on a Friday night with torches, you are either a moron or an instigator.
I think both.
Freedom of speech has no greater county on earth than Jefferson's Albemarle, where this is.
Intentional provocation has its own, predictable results, especially when both sides have recruited for months from outside this area.
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So you're upset because they've inconvenience you? First world problem right there.
This all sounds very similar to what was going on in Berkeley when I lived up there.
I lived near Berkeley as well, and we can go there if you want.
Your assertion that I am "upset because they've inconvenienced" me is idiotic, untrue and silly.
I was not upset at all about the "inconvenience."
What bothers me is the imported nature of this, and it is extremely obvious to those of us who live here.
This is an overweight, tattooed, stupid looking group of folks who have taken over our town for a weekend.
Still, that is not the point.
This is a hate group that recruited similarly thinking haters and brought them here.
Got it?
Disgusting.
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Could somebody explain what he's so upset about? Why can't you look at a protest march you disagree with?
I'm not sure what Sabato is upset about, but I can tell you what the rest of us are.
I live here.
I had the "opportunity" to drive through this crap on the way home from a volunteer project.
It looks like a war zone, and totally driven by these creepy white supremacists who have decided to make this ground zero.
I watched as the marched to their protest site.
Not intentionally. I was stopped as they slobbered across a major road.
Same demographic, and I saw hundreds of them.
Mid to late 20's.
Male, but for a few.
Overweight.
Face makeup. Posters.
Looked like total losers.
It looked like nothing more than an imported hate group.
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If ever there was a need for a press conference, this is it.
The new regime needs to explain to the historical fan base what this is all about.
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IF there was money to be made, the NFL would step up and provide the planes. Even that would not be great because of the length of the seasons.
If there was money to be made, a third party would have thought of this.
Actually, many have, and failed.
There isn't.
Ego thing, and good for them.
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Not the Dolphins.
American never painted an airplane for a team.
American had a history of polished aluminum only. No paint, and would not do that.
I made a bit of quality of life money off those charters, so I'm quite familiar.
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Easy when planes not in use by team they are leased or chartered. Tell me some Pats fan with money wont charter a Patriots plane to say fly to somewhere.
Also can lease to basketball, Hockey teams. All first class seating for players (something you dont get on Charters from United) etc
The first class seating will limit your governmant lease capabilies. However say its leased to deploy a group overseas easy to reconfigure seating on these planes
If it was that easy, everyone would do it.
I've done a few charters, including the (New Jersey Nets) to London, and all the players sat in first.
Reconfiguring isn't nearly as easy as you suggest, nor is "overseas," to use your term.
Flying "overseas" requires an ETOPS certified airplane and crew. ETOPS means extended overwater equipment and pilot qualifications.
Very, very expensive. Think of 1.5 times the cost.
I have no problem with your logic and intent.
I have a significant disagreement with how much money you think this costs over normal domestic Sat/Sunday charters.
Their expenses will be huge.
Sorry I am in a rush so I didn't read the whole thread but as mentioned many teams have/charter planes. Specifically, I remember the Dolphins plane in Miami. It was painted with Dolphins logos. Maybe it was only for coaches and staff.
What Dolphins plane?
They always used American, at least for the last 16 years.
They got a normal 757.
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As has been pointed out, there are significant expenses involved in owning an airplane vs chartering one, so you can't simply subtract the cost (10), minus the normal charter season cost, (4), and claim that all you have to do is make up the difference, (6), and you are in the money.
I have no idea where they are going to get their crew. There are not a lot of 767 people hanging around, and you are now going to take on their training expenses. If I was Kraft, I'd be extremely involved in making sure he was getting good folks.
Basing it in Providence makes sense for the Pats, but not for a chartered 767. Unless they have already structured agreements, like Caribbean trips from there during the offseason, there are going to be a lot of ferry flights to get it where it needs to be, and even then, it is extremely expensive to for it and its crew to sit around for the return, so there's another ferry.
Anyway, these charter things are really inefficient and expensive. That's why the airlines are getting out of them.
With the total scheduled airline structure in place and layers and layers of protection, an airline makes sense. If there's something that goes wrong in this operation, maintenance, de-icing as Marv's neighbor pointed out, (would result in a huge delay since they couldn't rely on an airline's system), a pilot gets sick on Sunday morning or afternoon, or countless other things, there will be few protections.
I, for one, can't wait until TAWMY 1 gets stuck somewhere.
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I think chartering has gotten considerably more expensive this past year.
American dropped six teams this year, and now only does Dallas, Carolina and Philadelphia, so there is less supply.
United and Delta still do a considerable amount.
This is going to be an extremely expensive operation.
They really don't need hangar space, but a parked 767 is still mounting bills.
Trump never hangared his 757.
They will have contract maintenance, but what priority they get depends on who they contract with, and if they go with a non airline, they are going to have significantly less efficient service.
If they do go with an airline, they won't be a number one priority.
They'll probably hire some retired pilots who are current on the 767. Not cheap, but not much in the grand scheme.
It would be a benefit in the free agent market, but certainly they don't need that right now.
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By the rivers of my memory
Ever smilin', ever gentle on my mind -
It doesn't matter what disclaimer a carrier publishes, and they all have them.
No published disclaimer protects a carrier from negligence, and negligence is a subjective matter decided by a third party.
What generally happens in these cases is that the carrier decides whether is easier to pay someone off or defend its behavior in the legal system, and often times it may be completely innocent of negligence, but deems it not financially worth the effort.
It isn't the 15 year old's fault that he/she is considered an unaccompanied minor by a particular airline.
It is the result of years threatened lawsuits and a lot of expense.
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Unfortunately, your "rant" would not be a successful defense in a lawsuit, and that is what drives this policy, not the relative intelligence and maturity of a 13/14/15/ year old, which varies dramatically.
You are correct in your claim that unaccompanied minor rules for each airline are easily accessible, and intentionally so.
That's why your Southwest example is so easy to dispute. They don't allow connections for unaccompanied minors
They would have never taken this reservation.
And again, people of all ages constantly do not make connections regardless of all the information and announcements.
It happens every day and results in countless delays and is not specific to any age.
The difference is that for adults, the carrier assumes no liability.
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First, I did a poor job of explaining my position. United was 100% within their rights to deny boarding, that is their rule that someone needs to be 16 to fly alone. My only complaint was that United makes the number 16..that is the joke. This was Air Candas mess to fix, they issued the ticket knowing full well the age of the passenger.
And as far as context, I proly have more context on this than most.My kids have flown alone several times well under the age of 16, and this United policy has nothing to do with safety or the kids being "minors", it has to do with them looking to collect fees for doing little to nothing.
Take a gander at Southwest "young Traveler " policy...kids as young as 12 do not need to be accompanied as long as they are not dolts..and SW takes no responsibility if a flight is delayed, canceled etc.
https://www.southwest.com/html/customer-service/family/young-travelers.html
And just as a point of reference, I am a very frequent flyer who things most fees like luggage fees, better seats etc are 100% justified...just not this asinine rule that a 15 year cant find his way around an airport...rubbish. And we wonder why this kids grow up coddled.
Crimminy, my just turned 16-year-old is a counselor at camp for 8-year-olds and responsible for teaching them to sail, but 3 months ago United would have said he was too dumb to read a sign.
And this is exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned your post contained no information and no context.
Your example, Southwest, does not allow connections for the example you suggest.
This was not only a connection, it was an international flight requiring customs/immigration issues, and a connection.
So...You bring up an example that would never happen because your example does not permit it.
Regarding your 16 year old, and how talented he/she might be, I would be happy to hear you use that defense in a lawsuit, and there have been many, rand have cost the airlines millions.
You may not be aware of this, in fact I'm quite sure you aren't, but there are people who do this intentionally, looking to settle out of court.
Airlines have programs to defend themselves against this.
Lawsuits are an industry.
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the kid was 15, I don't think he needs extra guidance. Every other airline Bills Fan M.Ds niece would have been just fine to fly alone and avoid the $150 fee. And maybe i am nuts, but I thnk a 13 year old is perfectly capable of reading/following signs that say "Bagge Claim/Exit/Ground Transportation".
United did absolutely zilch for Bills Fan MD niece, and collected $150!
No, Air Canada initially booked the ticket, and they are a normal airline that says 15-year-olds can fly by themselves. Even another airline would not think a 15 year could not fly alone...hence the issue at the United counter for the return flight...outward flight was on Air Canada.
BTW, almost all airlines are 12, and you can accompany a minor to the gate with a pass given at check in by the airline...and the person at final destination can also get a pass to meet said child at gate...all at ZERO cost.
Again, this is a pure fee generator for United.
I should add my just turned 16 son tools around DC all the time by himself and with friends, going to Nats games, the monuments at night etc with his friends taking metro/Uber/bike etc. So i am certainly biased that I think 15-year-old kids can read signs and be aware of their surrondings
I don't have a dog in this fight, but this post is an example of someone who posts without any knowledge of context or history.
Most airlines, certainly any who operate in the US judicial system, understand the massive liability involved in transporting minors.
The definition of "minor" is made by judges and juries, not by somebody posting on a message board.
The claim that "a 13 year old" can do it indicates ignorance of what happens every day, when delays are incurred because people from 1-100 cannot figure out how to make a connecting flight.
Happens all the time. Cause delays every day.
Making a reservation that includes a connection or an international entry with customs/immigration issues is a whole lot different that a domestic nonstop.
Most refuse to take the reservation.
This res was made through Air Canada, a member of United's Star Alliance group.
Surely, someone from United could have been more sympathetic, but they have their rules, and they lose their job in a second by turning a minor loose on an international flight with a connection.
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Non human. Secretariat.
Human. Ali.
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I forgot to mention the one thing I wish I could show everyone.
St Elmo's fire extending from the radome over the windscreen.
It is truly an unbelievable thing to watch.
I guess it would scare the heck out of people, but it is truly cool.
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Craziest day of my life.
And worst of mine.
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I may not be the one to answer this the same as most since I flew Navy attack and fighter airplanes, then 32 years in my airline career on the 727, 757, 767 and 777, but...
In the Navy, flying low level training missions at 100' and 420 knots all over the west coast and Philippines.
Seeing the carrier after a long mission with relatively low fuel.
Getting to 50,000' and seeing the curvature of the earth.
Blowing up a drone over the Pacific with a Sidewinder missile.
The joy of flying wing.
In the airlines, watching the sun come up over the European continent every trip east.
Flying down the length of Italy on the way into Rome.
Watching the Southern Cross rotate about the South Pole every night on the way to Buenos Aires or Sao Paulo.
Watching the Space Shuttle fly just after launch.
Flying down the west side of the Andes, just over the Pacific and descending into Santiago, Chile.
The entire approach and landing into La Paz Bolivia at over 13000' airport altitude.
Seeing countless demonstrations of the northern lights while sitting in the darkened cockpit.
Flying over Northern Alaska and the North Pole on the way to Tokyo or Beijing.
Just knowing you'd have the best view in the world every night.
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Been all over the place.
Don't misunderestimate the fried catfish.
Charlottesville
in Politics, Polls, and Pundits
Posted
Because it shows gross, intentional ignorance of events that led to this, warnings that were issued, what really happened, what was warned would happen, how law enforcement actually responded, and thank God there weren't more casualties given the now apparent gross intent to incite a riot.
This thing has been going on for well over a month.
Local law enforcement gave every option to allow this to go peacefully.
I drove by this area at 9:10 and it looked like a law enforcement war zone. I've never seen anything like it in this area, or anywhere else for that matter, that experience includes a number of times visiting Tiananmen Square.
When I retraced that route at 12:30 on my way home, I saw hundreds of people carrying hate signs. body paint, disgusting "uniforms," and chanting hatred backed up by idiotic, moronic posters.
I witnessed the police protecting cross walks and letting them go.
They were looking for trouble, and blaming the folks who were responsible for protecting both sides, when both were spoiling for a fight and hiding behind "rights" never intended to support hatred and idiocy is idiotic.