Mango
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Posts posted by Mango
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6 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:
I’d pick up the 5th year option on the guy. He’s flashed at moments, feel like he might end up like Oliver and have a real breakout in a year or two. We need some edge rushers in their prime versus just starting over in the draft only.
I think we will get a better idea of his value next year. Floyd had a great year opposite him. He will likely have a lesser partner next year and will have to take a big step. If he makes that step you pay him. If he is still just a guy, then you have a tougher call on his value.
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Gabe's value on his rookie contract was great for us. Let him go get an Edmunds contract. He was a good teammate and provided some value to this team. He just proved he wasn't "the guy".
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9 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:
Not sure about Diggs but a cap reset of sorts is probably needed. So if they can offload a big one I think they have to consider it. At this point, the Knox contract is one that seems like one we can do without, I don't hate the guy or anything but the 2 TE thing never took off and that is a lot of money for a backup TE and we don't need Knox taking any of Kincaid's targets.
Totally agree. I would protect the 2025 cap space however possible. To me that means either keeping Diggs all year or moving on before June 1.
We need one of not two wide receivers, a center, two safeties, and a couple of pass rushers. Clear the deck where we can, load up in the draft, and be aggressive in 2025.
EDIT: For reference, the timing of releasing Tre, Von, and Diggs would open up $65M in space for 2025.
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1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:
I think that the Bills best option would be to trade him post 6/1. Let draft and FA play out and teams get their rosters set. Then wait for the eventual catastrophic injury to a stud WR on a contender. Then you might get a second out of them.
Notably Diggs’ salary becomes guaranteed at the start of the league year but he doesn’t have a roster bonus. The team trading for him could do a restructure to fit him under their cap. One snafu is if the Bills restructure his contract early in the off-season to macerate cap space. His trade value would increase, but we’d be on the hook for his salary and associated cap hit.
I don't think his cap hit is prohibitive in a trade. In that scenario Diggs $18M-ish next year puts him at 15th overall between Ceedee Lamb and Justin Jefferson with the freedom to walk away. I think that would be good value for a team with a young QB and a lot of cap space.
If this team wants to move on from Diggs I think they can and even get 'some' return on it if they want. -
10 minutes ago, Big Turk said:
Fvck no. What the hell is a 2nd round pick going to do for us? Take on 31 million in dead cap for a 2nd? You must have lost your mind.
The delta in keeping Diggs vs cutting/trading Diggs is $3M. That is an important distinction to make.
1 minute ago, Big Turk said:He will put up another 1000 yard+ season next year here. Who do you plan on replacing him with? Signing Mike Evans to a $25 million dollar a year contract?
I generally agree here. When you cut a guy, you have to replace him. But Diggs has had the ability to be a distraction.
I wouldn't be quick to pull the trigger on this one. But I also don't fall into the "fork no" category either. Both seem to have some cost and some benefit. It all depends on what kind of Stef we get back next year? Do we get this seasons teammate that was a good soldier. Or do we get the Bengals/OTA Stef. If it is the ladder you pull the trigger. If it is the former you ride this out another year.-
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1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:
Trading Diggs prior to 6/1 would increase his cap hit from $27.9M to $31.1M. We are at a point where it is possible to do this - albeit very painful and unlikely. I do not see another team trading a second round pick (especially in this draft which is loaded with WR talent) and paying Diggs $18.8M for the season. Not when Diggs turns 31 in November.
I think we are stuck with him one more season and then he gets designated a 6/1 cut the following offseason. But to the OP’s question - hell, yes, I’d move him for a 2 and take the cap hit.
I think the one thing that makes Diggs an OK trade candidate is that they can risk his cost for the season. But I believe the receiving team can move on from Diggs without any real cap ramification because all that is left is his base salary, roster bonus, etc. Buffalo eats the rest.
A team like Houston or Indy could take this risk to help out a rookie QB. If it doesn't work out they move on the following offseason for basically nothing. If he does work out he is certainly worth his cap hit.
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I just posted this in the other Diggs thread but it works here:
If Diggs can find a way to be reasonably productive this year without causing a scene, the Bills should hold off on moving on and keep the $3M cost savings by keeping him here.Some interesting numbers in relation to Diggs cap. For reference red is bad. But his contract is absolutely workable this offseason if all parties NEED to walk away from each other. People freak out over the $31M as if it is in addition to. The post June 2024 number is interesting, and I think it could make Stef a post June trade candidate this year.
2024 Pre June: -$3M (+$22M in 2025)
2024 Post June: $19M (-$22M in 2025)
2025 Pre June: $5M ($28M in 2026)
2025 Post June: $18.5M (-13M in 2026)
There is zero place where discussing restructuring Diggs makes any sense. It should be removed from every single discussion of the Bills cap space from here on out. It didn't make sense 3 months ago and it makes much less sense today.-
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If Diggs can find a way to be reasonably productive this year without causing a scene, the Bills should hold off on moving on and keep the $3M cost savings by keeping him here.
Some interesting numbers in relation to Diggs cap. For reference red is bad. But his contract is absolutely workable this offseason if all parties NEED to walk away from each other. People freak out over the $31M as if it is in addition to. The post June 2024 number is interesting, and I think it could make Stef a post June trade candidate this year.
2024 Pre June: -$3M (+$22M in 2025)
2024 Post June: $19M (-$22M in 2025)
2025 Pre June: $5M ($28M in 2026)
2025 Post June: $18.5M (-13M in 2026)
EDIT: There is zero place where discussing restructuring Diggs makes any sense. It should be removed from every single discussion of the Bills cap space from here on out. It didn't make sense 3 months ago and it makes much less sense today.-
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A 100% healthy Milano, Bernard, Tre, and Douglas absolutely win that game last night by some margin.
(I know we don't make the Douglas trade if Tre is healthy. But right now they are both on the roster. Let me have this one today)-
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2 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:
This.
I mean, we were at what, the 30 yard line? We aren't going to be able to kill off that much clock when you are that close. I guess if you keep executing 5 yard runs for a span of 2 minutes. There was a TD for the taking, so I don't think you turn that down. MHO anyway.
And even then, TD for the taking for the lead or risk not getting a TD and get screwed in OT because the defense is a spaghetti strainer.
Take the lead.
But yes in a perfect/bizarro world, the Bills score a TD as the clock strikes zero.-
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3 minutes ago, Logic said:
This is where I'm at.
The Chiefs have an excellent red zone defense. There's absolutely NO guarantee that if you extend the drive on a hypothetical Diggs 1st down, that you'll have another shot at a touchdown as open as the Shakir route was.
The Chiefs had also done an excellent job limiting explosive plays by the Bills all night -- 0 plays over 20 yards.
So now, a receiver open in the end zone on an explosive play for a go-ahead touchdown -- how do you pass that up to go for a 4-10 yard completion instead, just based on the ASSUMPTION that you'll still be able to ultimately score a touchdown?
In a vacuum, you can sit there and say "well, the smart play is to bleed more clock, continue the drive, take it down to almost no time, AND THEN score". But again, there's absolutely no guarantee that you're still going to get that opportunity.
It's just hard for me to fault Allen for taking a shot to an open player in the end zone -- which, make no mistake, would likely have been completed had it not been for Dawkins getting walked into the QB -- for six, when the alternative would've been a mere 1st down and then hoping/assuming that you'll still be able to score a TD.
If an explosive play for a touchdown is there against an elite defense to put you ahead with under two minutes left, you take it. That's where I'm at. Execution is what doomed the play, but I'm okay with the decision itself, because football isn't played in a vacuum.Totally agree, and for years I have pounded the table loudly on this forum that "Josh should have done this and instead of that".
He was an absolute hero last night and I have zero criticisms for his game yesterday.-
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1 hour ago, klos63 said:
Actually I think the injuries were a pretty good excuse. Our MLB shouldn't even be in the NFL, no team wanted him. Losing 2 great mlb, Douglass didn't look 100%, obviously missed Benford, Von not close to 100%. Injuries were significant. Rapp out was significant as Hyde and Poyer are finished.
Agreed here. We were struggling against an opponent we were ultimate better than. A healthy Bernard and Douglass is likely worth a punt or two and we are talking about a Bills 2 score victory today.
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51 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:
No.
Just no.
First off, Shakir was NFL open. He was not wide open. Wide open was Kelce's first TD. it was a tight window that likely works if Allen isn't hit as he's thrown.
But it's the wrong decision for a few reasons. One, he has close to an instant 1st down if he tosses it to Diggs on the crosser. Diggs goes down in bounds it forces KC to use a timeout or the clock winds down to ~1:20. We get 4 more chances at a play like the Shakir throw or Bass gets a little more space to work.
Two, even if the pass works exactly as intended...KC has the ball back with 1:55 and two timeouts. They need a TD, but with our defense giving up at least eight 20+ yard plays? It's a risk I would never take.
There is a grey area with realistic expectations for any NFL offense. On one hand, we can all sit back and generally say "an NFL offense should be able to execute 3-4 plays in a row." But at some point you have to draw the line for what is a reasonable expectation. You can't just keep adding on 4 more plays for eternity.
The Bills stalled on a 16 play drive. For reference the average drive length this year is 5.88 plays per drive. It is unreasonable and look back and expect any NFL team to execute a 20 play drive with any regularity at all.
For reference, since 2001 there have only been a total of 8 20+ play TD drives in the playoffs or the regular season. Saying this was "part of the plan" isn't reasonable.-
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As a very slowly decompress from last night I find myself remembering how frustrated I was in the second half.
Cook was getting stuffed often. KC had adjusted to the run.
The situation was prime for play action, bootlegs, and screens. Allen picked up some tough yards as the game went on. -
3 minutes ago, zow2 said:
The fake punt was so dumb I actually LOL'd in my family room watching it. I can see a 4th and 1, maybe? But he had so far to run. It's almost like McD or whoever called it wanted to create a Damar Hamlin moment to show on the ESPY's as the Bills use the fake punt to win the game and go on to win the SB.
I hated it, and was so happy that we got the touchback and didn't have to point to that play as the reason we lost.
It was crazy to go for it, but if you are going to do that at least go down swinging and put the ball in Allen's hands.
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3 hours ago, peterpan said:
Some people will never be happy.
Our D couldn’t stop them at all. So he goes for it on 4th down. Which is what this board has been begging for for years.
Agreed. Martin was hobbled. The defense was broken and beaten.
My biggest issue was taking Allen of the field. If we’re going to go for it put it in the hands of your best player. Line up and make them stop Josh Allen.
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Possibly if healthy. Not if we rolled out another mash unit.
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This one hurt pretty bad. We should have had this one.
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51 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:
They also gave him underneath option that he had plenty of time to hit.
That was the 14th play of the drive. That’s an eternity by NFL standards.
Taking the score there is fine.Otherwise we’re saying “you know what the Bills really needed? A 20 play drive” that’s just not reasonable.
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7 hours ago, DapperCam said:
They are dunking on Paramount, a direct competitor.
CBS is Paramount and Paramount is CBS. They aren’t competitors. -
7 hours ago, Beck Water said:
OK, I was asking about this because I didn’t have the stomach to Wade through all the post game stuff. Did Diggs bail out of the locker room and refuse to make himself available to the press, again?
He doesn’t have to talk, but he’s supposed to be in the locker room during press availability.
Wow. Had his man beat. Catchable ball is right there.
No idea what happened back there but he didn’t mark himself available. -
4 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:
Sign Higgins and draft a big fast WR in round 1.
Diggs, Higgins, Shakir, Kincaid, 1st round rookie, Cook... That's a nice offense.
Then sign Henry at RB as a compliment to Cook. Awesome 1 ,2 punch.
Gotta stock the talent at WR so teams need to respect the deep ball
Id actually prefer an aging Evans if the cost is right. I don’t think it takes “much” to sign him short term compared to other WR numbers.
That said, I’m irked Diggs didn’t meet with the media after a tough loss…again….
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10 minutes ago, Punch said:
Yes, but he’s not free if we don’t move on. He costs $28M to keep him here. So it’s $3M more to move on that it is to keep him. This is a super important distinction.Now, we are close against the cap, and that is a fair point. But his contract on its own is movable.
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58 minutes ago, Murdox said:
Diggs is an elusive route runner and very good at finding space in zones, but he doesn't really have the elite speed or physicality to get consistent separation against many of the top corners of opposing defenses when in man defense. We need to find that #1 so Diggs can shift over to #2.
Id love to move him inside, but $28M is a lot of cheese for that role.
Josh EOY presser
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
Odd to me that all we have is live interviews with Allen and Dawkins at this point.