Wayne Cubed

What's more foolish, an employee of your company being insubordinate and you as the owner doing something about it? Or an employee of a company being insubordinate and you as the owner do nothing? You'd look like you don't know how to run a company if employees are allowed to do whatever the hell they want and have no consequences for it. If it got out that Whaley was truly "rogue" it would make the Pegulas look very bad.

I understand all of that, I work in marketing. The problem is the ad was already made. The money for the ad was already spent. Like I said before the only way they could have avoided this is by letting M&T know months before Fred was getting cut, which I'm sure that wasn't decided at that point. The only way to avoid all of this would have been to keep Fred, for the sake of making a sponsor happy. Graham's tweet makes it seem like the Bills have known for months and months that Fred was going to be cut and that they should have told M&T to avoid the "embarrassing" situation. If Fred was going to be cut and the decision was made after the Pittsburgh game there is no way M&T could avoid any of this. If the Bills did know that a player was going to be cut months in advance and a sponsor spent money making an ad featuring that player, then yes it would be embarrassing to the Bills. The whole tweet and comment from Graham is ridiculous, IMO. But that's his schtick.

Maybe I missed this somewhere is this discussion but if Whaley went "rogue" and just made this decision without informing the Pegulas, his boss's, wouldn't he be fired and Fred offered his job back?

Where has it been said that a sponsor is angry? Unless I've missed something, there's been a tweet by Tim Graham calling the cutting of Fred, without notifying advertisers, embarrassing. That's it. I think it's fairly obvious upsetting a sponsor is bad for business but there has been a lot of taking Tim Grahams opinion, "it's embarrassing", and using it as a fact that a sponsor is upset. As to Grahams comment, the ad has already been made, the money already spent. Whaley would have had to tell this sponsor months ago that he was being cut to save that money. Even if Whaley included this sponsor in the loop when he made the decision, they've already lost money on the ad. I know this may be hard for Tim to understand but maybe the sponsor ran the ad anyways because they spent the money. Maybe the Bills told them and they said "Well we've spent the money already we are going to run the ad." It's not like Fred was Ray Rice or Adrian Peterson and his character was tarnished by the cut.

According to OverTheCap, if he's designated a pre-June cut it's $3m in dead money if it's post it's $1.5m, which is the same as it would be cutting him in 2017. It would also take $6.5m off the cap. I suppose they would still bring him to camp, a lot like the Fred situation.

I think this year will determine a lot as to how long they want to keep Kyle. If Bryant continues to play better and/or Kyle looks like he's slowed down or has an injury plagued season he might only last this season. It wouldn't surprise me and I'm sure would piss a lot of fans off. If he plays well and is healthy, I could see him playing 2 more year.s

Wouldn't be surprised if Corbin Bryant is his replacement, younger and cheaper at this point.

Completely agree.

To me it comes off as more of an emotional comment than a factual one. Whaley signed off on Freds extension last July, when there wasn't an owner to push him to do that. And if it was Russ Brandon pushing him to do it, that would open up a whole other issue of Brandon interfering with football decisions. Whaley didn't have to do that, they could have let Freds contract just run out. I think it's possible Whaley has told Fred, more than a couple times, he wants to see him retire a Bill or that he always wants him to be a Bill. As I'm sure many people inside the organization have told Fred that. Now, Whaley cuts Fred and all of a sudden Whaley wasn't being honest the entire time he was there because he told Fred he always wanted him to be a Bill.

My thoughts from the the Tim Graham comments: - Rogue. An odd word to choice to use there, was that Grahams interpretation of the situation after his two sources told him what happened or was that the word the two sources used? I seriously doubt Whaley went "rogue", didn't inform Ryan, didn't inform the Pegula's or Russ Brandon, just called Fred into his office and told him he was cut. I think either the two sources used that word to describe the situation not really understanding it's definition or Graham intentionally used that word to sensationalize the situation. - The comment about the sponsorship is ridiculous. The "it's embarrassing" is Grahams opinion of the situation. As I work in marketing there is nothing I see "embarrassing" about the situation for the Bills or for M&T bank, if that's who he's referring too. As far as the Bucky article, a lot of it reads very complimentary of his time in Buffalo except for Fred taking a shot at Whaley. I don't get the comment that "Whaley was never honest with me." In what sense? Seems more of an emotional response than a fact. Here's a comment from Thurman when he was cut: "Those guys and the organization as a whole, every time I get the ball, I'm going to try to stick it and let them know I didn't forget what happened in the off-season and the past couple of years"

Exactly. They did give Fred a chance on ST, when they tried him as a punt returner. I really think they tried their hardest to find a spot for him on the roster but ultimately couldn't.

But I thought he was suppose to go to the Pats** and annihilate the Bills upon his return to the Ralph Good for Fred, wish him all the best!

I don't think he would, kids will be starting school, it would be a lot to ask them. He'll just probably live in Seattle temporarily and fly back when he can.

It would be a nice landing spot for him. Wonder if he moves his family, they have their roots firmly planted in Buffalo.

I woke up and don't feel any different about the move. I understand it and understand that NFL rosters are a numbers game. They tried to find a spot for Fred, having him try punt returns, knowing his touches would be severely limited. With Karlos Williams looking very good, I'd imagine Fred's touches would go down to maybe 4-5 a game and he doesn't play special teams. That's a good amount of money and a roster spot for maybe 4-5 touches per game.

He wasn't one of the top people interviewed for HC in 2015, in fact his only HC interview was in Buffalo. He interviewed for OC in Tampa Bay, Jacksonville and St. Louis. Previous to that his only HC interview was with Minnesota, who ended up going with Mike Zimmer. There were much more sought after offensive guys last year like Gase, Bevell and Kubiak. I think it might be tough for Roman to get a HC job next year because I believe there are a lot of guys he would have to leap frog for it to happen. I think right now Gase may be the most sought after OC for a HC job, especially if he preforms well in Chicago. He turned down the 49ers job reportedly because he couldn't pick his own DC. He's followed closely by Josh McDaniel. I also think if Pat Schumer does well in Philly with Sam Bradford he will be a hot candidate. Then you've got guys like Hue Jackson, Pep Hamilton, Kevin Sumlin and even, ugh hurts to type this, Doug Marrone. So which HC jobs could be open next season? I think Washington could be one, Jacksonville could be another. If the Giants don't preform well it could be another. I could also see Miami parting ways with Joe Philbin if they don't make the playoffs. I think Marrone has positioned himself in Jacksonville on purpose and would be very high up on the list to be the next coach there. I could see the Giants going internal, with maybe Ben McAdoo or maybe going with a defensive coach. Not sure what Miami would do. Washington is the real wild card because who knows what Daniel Snyder is thinking. I suppose a situation like Mike Pettine could present itself next year, crazy owner who can't make up his mind and hires the last guy standing. That guy could be Roman but IMO I think there a quite a few guys, offensively, that are ahead of him at the moment and he would have to have a really really strong offensive year.

Maybe, maybe not. Fred is a class act and what the Bills did is just part of the business, I would think Fred gets that. If he feels the need to be vindictive towards the Bills, I know I'd be disappointed in him.

We'll have to wait and see how much truth there is to that part.

That's dumb on Florio's part. Whaley WANTED to let Fred go in March but was overruled by Pegula and the fans. This was the best way to let Fred go. They let him go after he played in the game, showing he was healthy, and are give him time to hook up with another team.

Or maybe they legitimately wanted to give Fred a shot. You think Fred being cut in March, with all the team has done, would have effected ticket sales? I love Fred but at the end of the day I'm still going to go to Bills games, I wouldn't boycott them because Fred isn't playing, especially with the roster that's been assembled.

Accountability for what?

In, so deep.

There's no way it would have remained a secret through cuts. Players talk. I think it would have come out this week anyways.

Excited. Have been impressed all preseason with TT.

Just sad really. When Thurman signed with the Dolphins, I still wanted him to do well but I wanted the Bills to kick the crap out of them when they played.