SRQ_BillsFan

I believe something happen d and nothing would without the quarterback. His answers were elusive at the trial and polished at his appeal. However he was simply not a creditable witness, he destroyed evidence. A jury, a judge or an arbitrator are allowed to take this into account to question the totality of his answers. In the end this is what the NFL will argue got them from point A to B. You may not agree, but the NFL believes this is solid. Given that and previous standards for arbitration cases the NFL is not worried. What may happen who knows, but I believe this and the CBA are the NFL's position. No matter what else happened.

Just like the Well's report, the initial punishment, the appeal and now the Frderal Court Appeal it's amazing how many differing views their are. People side with Brady and the NFLPA, and other seemingly normal individuals side with the NFL. Today was a bit different because everyone is trying to decide what the intent was for each question asked by the judge and where this goes next. Whether you side with Brady or not win or lose the court case and he has already lost. Right or wrong it appears the guilt has been decided and put to bed. Any win for Brady now just gets him off on a procedure technicality. This will always taint him, doesn't matter if you thought he was guilty or not cause it will always follow him. The NFL is too big and in a few months it won't matter. They will be in to the next case because there will always be a next case. Attendance will continue to rise and the dollar signs will simply keep increasing. Say what you want about Brady but in the end he isn't bigger than the game. Personally, I hate that the judge is trying to force them to settle. I understand wanting them to settle and it may even be good for the game, but the judge just becomes a 3rd participant. Forcing them to settle, just makes him personality number 3 in this fiasco. It probably would have anyway, but it just makes it seem like a tie without overtime or a shoutout. No matter who wins or loses, I would rather they took it to it's conclusion. This is big league sports, the NFL, it's about winning or losing. I would hate for this to drag out for weeks, months or years. Do I think it's overblown, sometimes. But I'm invested now. Not that I have been on it pins and needles 24x7, but I want a winner not a tie.

Just walked by the courthouse. A lot of people gathered outside. Took some pictures. No announcements as of yet a reporter told me when I asked him "Any news?" Currently working half a block away, so strolled by over lunch.

I can see it now, Bills Nation behind Richie just like the Patriot fans. It was a sting, there's no proof; the phone message was just a joke between friends. no one in the history of the NFL has ever had a penalty for being anti gay therefore he should only have had a $1 fine. And no one ever warned him he could be fined and suspended for picking on a team mate. There is nothing in the CBA, it doesn't even have the word gay in it. These players lie, now we're backing Richie Incognito? I am glad he's back and was glad he got a second chance, hope he straightened his life out. But c'mon?

Right because no one else carrys bags of equipment around an NFL stadium before a game. Must have really stuck out, how could no one have seen him? They should have known to lock the balls in a vault. Otherwise it was just an invitation to STEAL them. The refs had no other responsibility. Since when is stealing not stealing if you don't lock your things up and then be on a lookout for it. There could have been a million things in the bags being carried by a Pats equipment guy wearing the correct credentials to be where he was. This was not some random guy off the street that did not belong in the room.

But what about the PSI? The NFL should go back to the refs controlling the balls until the game starts with some similar method used to "wear in" the balls and each team should play with the same balls. To me it was dumb to let the players mess with the balls before the game. Seperate but equal, has proven to not be equal. That way if someone does something drastic enough to the balls the other team would (might?) notice.

Thanks! Now I/we know. Sure seems a little vague :-) Seems strict, I'd be afraid to touch it before the game. They should have stuck with the weight at 13 so ther was no variance to open this up. I certainly don't get that the weight was to a quarterbacks choosing when reading that. So I wonder how many refs gave a damn what the QBs wanted? They kind of opened this up by letting them rough up the balls. But is still wouldn't think the quarterback should ever have been able to select a weight based on the way it reads.

Huge stretch I know. Back when I played pee wee ball (I know ha ha) there were rules to the length and circumference of the balls by age groups. So I assume the 13 lbs not only had to do with the air pressure being more or less but filled out the ball to the correct dimensions it was made for. Having said that I do not know if this is written anywhere in the NFL regarding circumference, but I guarantee whoever makes the ball has the size in mind. So it wouldn't surprise me if that existed somewhere. I would bet that is the reason for the 13 lbs or printed weight.

Or deflate the ball entirely and throw it like a frisbee because they have a new QB who can really zing it in there. The 13 lbs is what the manufacturer decided was the right inflation, not too soft and not too hard. It makes sense.

I just don't see doing it on the sidelines as bad as stealing the balls. Stealing always makes it worse. It would be much harder to do it on the sidelines or there would have been no reason to steal them. The net effect is the same, but they could also be caught on camera, etc.

If it's as bad as it sounds maybe we let them play Brady if we can use their backup.

Oh, I totally agree that there were problems with the entirety of it. But what the investigation found vs what the NFL did withit were two different things. What I hate is the process where players can simply contradict themselves in the appeal without penalty. It happened then and I believe it happened here as well. In both cases, the NFL made some dumb calls in what they did with the reports. But that and some fancy dancing should not get these players off. I believe Brady cheated and because the balls were stolen makes this a 1st of a kind penalty. But that's my opinion. I'd be fine with a fine and a true admission of guilt. But I think he'd take the games before admitting guilt. Which is fine also.

I'll choose to simply disagree. even Tagilabue upheld the NFLs key findings: that the Saints orchestrated a bounty program, that many players participated in the program, that some Saints coaches and players lied to investigators about the program, and that New Orleans Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma put a $10,000 bounty on former Minnesota Vikings quarterback Brett Favre before the 2010 NFC championship game. Other than that we had a lot of media crap about players being misconstrued while giving completely 180 degree statements that no one could have mis construed. It's what's flawed with the process. The players say one thing when interviewed and come back and say something completely different after the fact once they have something that sounds better. Just like Brady did.

How can u claim anyone the NFL would hire is independent? Wells work d for the NFL before, but he is not on the NFL full time payroll, and has investigated many things outside the NFL bye highly creditable and people speak very highly of him. So the NFL should find new investigators for every case?? The problems with Boutygate were not the investigation, it was what was done afterwards. Sure the players had issue with it as any losing side would any investigation. I didn't see Kraft standing up and questioning it or the mans integrity.

If this was such a problem, why did the patriots or no one else complain when they named Well's the investigator? Why was it not a problem until after he released finding that the Patriots and NFLPA didn't like? When Well's was made investigator everyone said good, you'll see they won't find anything. It was well known he had investigated Bountygate as well as others when Well's was named.

It doesn't matter if their intent was just to make sure the balls were at 12.5 to me. They stole the balls from the referee to do it? Do you not see something wrong with that???? Ther plan was not simply to steal the balls to get 5 minutes of extra practice? So even if they were covering that up, why? Because they know they plotted and did something wrong.

Gee Tom had much better answers 6 months latter during his appeal trial. He must be telling the truth. What happened to the "I called to talk about his wedding" excuse. Why was that no longer the reason for the extra calls and meeting in the office. Oh I forgot, along with the "I don't remembers". How people just fall all over his new testimony makes me sick. I wish the NFL would post his original interviews so we could see how the story changed. Because it makes much more sense that he remembers things more clearly 6 months after it happened vs right away.

It's simple, everything the NFL says and the referee says about the balls (and many other things) is a lie or wrong because they couldn't possibly remember. Even though the Pats ball boys said they submitted the balls at 12.5. BTW, I hope the refs remember that Brady et el. Called them liers during the season on those questionable holding and late hit calls. Every possibility suggested by Exponent no matter how extreme is fact and must be taken into account. The same without a doubt is true of Brady as well. The fact that some of his answers seem disingenuous only makes them and his other more harden facts. Because anything else is just flawed.

The fact that the patriots tried to term the "Deflator" as a person trying to lose weight shows the great lengths that they would go to to try and come up with counterpoints to all of the circumstantial evidence. To me that alone makes every single response suspect at best and a lie at worst. Let's also not forget the Patriot ball boys admitted that they would turn Brady's balls into the referees at 12.5. Something that they never brought up again. So now we have 2 people saying the Parriots balls started at 12.5.

I have no issue with the science you can work hard to poke holes in it but it's easier to accept. There is a difference in the balls. If time is a factor the balls should have all been higher PSI as they measured each one. The Well's report clearly states... "There is only a .4% likelihood -- a fraction of 1% -- that the difference in average pressure between the teams occurred by chance." You can argue a lack of procedure, but it's easier to say it makes sense given what they had, what was done was certainly reasonable. A better procedure or methodology does not mean in any way the results would have been any different. Just that they could have been. What they did was perfectly reasonable.

This to me is a key point. Why steal the balls? I simply don't believe it happens all the time. This is the playoffs. A championship game.

The next CBA will be interesting to say the least and could end up causing a lot of people to lose a lot of time and money while it drags out. All to protect 5-6 scumbags who were guilty but slightly to moderately over punished in situations where you or I would have lost our jobs with little to no recourse. Then again most of us couldn't make this up none the less commit these offenses. I say the punishment fits. This isn't a sock violation unless the NFL confiscated the socks and locked them up and they were then stolen by the player wearing them. And that still doesn't get into the potential competitive advantage part.

I'd like to know more about this game against the Jets? Were the balls 15.1, 15.5 and exaggerated to 16 or were they actually 16? I think this could relate, was there any testimony about any of this, because I think this relates? Marcia is a cry baby and I find it hard to believe he played the entire game with the ball inflated to 16 lbs, the entire game without complaining? Certainly if they lost or the game was close there would have been some comment to the press after the game. Because Marcia is a crybaby and he helped with the rules in 2006, I don't think he would have just accepted it. Did he complain to the refs who had the ball adjusted at some point? Did he simply have his ball boys remove some air on the sidelines? Again I just can't believe he played the entire game that way and past actions may apply.

I could be wrong but would assume they were given a severance package not to talk. Which is why we haven't heard from them. Curious though, I know they won't be witnesses here but would think if they were they would be compelled to talk. Would that have been true at the appeal, couldn't the NFL have asked them to appear?

I found this little quote in a story about the rules change in 2006 that was pushed by Brady and Manning. I kept wondering how PSI could not have come up when that occurred. Although he doesn't specifically say PSI. "The thing is, every quarterback likes it a little bit different," Brady said after addressing the competition committee. "Some like them blown up a little bit more, some like them a little more thin, some like them a little more new, some like them really broken in." http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2015/01/26/tom-brady-deflategate-peyton-manning-rule-change-nfl/22372835/ I think this was before the Jets game where there is no proof the ball was actually 16 lbs.