st pete gogolak
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Posts posted by st pete gogolak
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Putting aside the Chiefs for a second, this was a pretty good first day for the Bills from an AFC East standpoint. Pats don’t get Daniels (who I think is a whole lot more dangerous than Maye), Jets don’t get one of the Big 3 WR’s or the top TE and Dolphins draft Aaron Maybin Part Deux. Let’s make some solid picks today and move forward.
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38 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:
That draft was long before and things can change. He had a season to go through and presumably felt that he had to show he still “had it.”
Your analysis by the way was spot on. What an awful draft.
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4 hours ago, dave mcbride said:
John Butler was a good GM and personnel evaluator both in Buffalo and SD. But he had a very bad 2000 draft, highlighted by terrible players in the first and second round. The Bills needed defensive help going into that draft, and the strong word beforehand was that the Bills absolutely loved Ahmad Plummer (CB, Ohio State) and Mike Brown (S, Nebraska). They also liked Deon Grant (S, Tennessee). Plummer went 24th overall and the Bills took Erik Flowers two picks later, at 26. Even though they had drafted Antoine Winfield in the first in 1999, Thomas Smith was gone after the 1999 season and they had no one else, really, beyond Winfield and Kenny Irvin (Punt Catcher Chris Watson was their third CB). In the second, they were desperate for a safety but stayed put and drafted a fifth round-caliber player at the 58th slot (because he's all who was left), Travares Tillman (S, Georgia Tech). They watched Mike Brown go at #39 overall and Grant at #57 overall, just before they picked Tillman (a desperation move, and Butler more or less admitted as much afterward).
Plummer had four very good seasons for SF but washed out after that because of injury, which was just bad luck. He was on a very good career trajectory and at least gave SF four good years, starting at CB right off the bat. Mike Brown played 10 seasons and was a two-time all pro for Chicago (although he had a bunch of injuries in his latter years). When healthy, he was elite. Deon Grant, despite missing his rookie season with an ACL tear, played for 11 more after that and started in over 160 games with 30 total INTs. The topper? His final game was the February 2012 SB vs NE, in which he started and had six tackles for a Giants defense that held an elite offense to only 17 points. Nice way to go out.
If the Bills had sold some assets (either 2000 or 2001 draft capital) to move up 23 and 56 (Minnesota had both 55 and 56 that year, so was presumably open to a slight trade-down to 58), that draft would have looked a whole lot different in retrospect. Maybe jumping ahead of Chicago for Mike Brown was undoable, but their later picks suggest to me that the capital would have been well spent on moving up (Corey Moore, Avion Black, Sammy Morris, Leif Larson, Drew Haddad, and Dashon Polk were the remaining picks). The thing is, Butler really did believe in those players they missed out on. Maybe Butler wasn't as aggressive as he should have been given that he was on his way out, but I doubt that -- he still wanted to field a winning team in 2000 (and to be fair, that team started out very well before injuries hit). In any event, the front office had the right instincts for the players they really wanted early on.
I think you can see where I'm going with this. Beane's MO is to not risk missing on his guy (assuming the player is within a reasonable distance) and this is the reason why. I'm not saying he HAS to move up at all; just saying that there is a potentially steep price one pays by sitting still and "letting the draft come to you." This is assuming, of course, that the player you want is someone you truly believe in, but that should be a given in any trade-up.
Anyway, food for thought.
Butler had checked out by 2000. He was basically on his way to SD. Should have traded back for the Michigan QB in 2000.
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I remember Jimmy Johnson being a big believer in accumulating draft picks. Cowboys hit on quite a few but had their fair share of misses. I also recall his thoughts on kickers - “kickers are fungible”.
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Anyone outraged by Blacks’ reaction to the verdict needs to look at American history. How would you feel if you had witnessed whites being acquitted of murder by all-white juries hundreds, if not thousands of times - Emmett Till, Medger Evers, the list goes on and on - when obviously guilty. The OJ trial didn’t expose the American system of justice. It just exposed it to a different set of people.
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23 minutes ago, sunshynman said:
Well that was from Princess Bride quote.
But “I’m feeling better, think I’ll go for a walk”!Not Princess Bride. Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
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26 minutes ago, Warcodered said:
Yeah it'd be weird for him to be proven innocent and then found civilly liable.
Not really if you put numbers on it. Preponderance of the evidence you need 50.1% for verdict. Beyond reasonable doubt? No one puts a number on it but assume it’s around 90% - 95% sure person is guilty. So not guilty in criminal case but guilty in civil case, juries believed defendant was between 50.1% and 90% - 95% guilty. Kind of crazy but that’s the system.
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14 hours ago, ControllerOfPlanetX said:
Just need to perfect this:
Do you mean “you have to create a seal HERE and a seal HERE and run up the alley”?
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5 hours ago, akcash said:
Maybe he could be kind of like the TE version of what Cordarrelle Patterson?
I’d like to see if Joe can find more creative ways to get the ball in Knox’s hands so he can show some of that RAC ability and power.I think the way to do that is line him up in the backfield more. He’d be an effective weapon catching passes out of the backfield and this is just my opinion, but I would like to see what he could do with some traditional carries.
Not saying he wouldn’t still be a top 2 inline tight end for the most part as I think he’s one of the better blocking tight ends in the league.
To me it seems he just has a lot of wasted movement in his routes and I think it’s easy for DBs to cover. On the flip-side though he has so much playmaking ability with ball in his hands.
I’ve been thinking along the same lines. Line him up in traditional FB spot. Lead blocker on running plays, move to the line in 12 personnel, slot, whatever. Could lead to some interesting formations.
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I wish I could remember who posted it, but a poster insightfully pointed out that Diggs’ 2022 and 2023 seasons were pretty much the same - great first half, lousy second half. So what the heck is going on? I certainly don’t buy the age thing. Thirty year old receivers don’t fall off a cliff. So again, why the dramatic drop off in consecutive years?
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16 hours ago, Trust The Process said:
Huge safety free agency class and we get nothing.
Deep WR draft and we sign Hollins and Samuel.
We trade Bates but we release Morse
And we sign Morrow and depth guys instead of addressing starters.
Once again, Beane is doing the opposite of which makes sense. He did the same thing the year we traded for Diggs. The depth at WR was strong in that draft and what Beane chose to do is trade for Diggs instead of drafting Jefferson. We shouldn’t have had to waste additional draft picks and a ton of valuable cap space on Diggs.
You know what’s crazy? The Draft Fairy went to Beane the night before the Diggs trade and told him that Jefferson would be available when it was the Bills’ turn to pick and that SOB still went ahead with the trade!
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We passed on him, presumably because we had Dareus and Kyle Williams. Does that sound right? That’s incredibly bad luck. If only we had needed a DT that year (assuming we don’t trade up for a WR and give away next year’s #1).
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It’s interesting that Curtis Samuel is a poor man’s Deebo Samuel.
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1 hour ago, TheWeatherMan said:
Did you watch the last 8 games of the season?
Someone pointed out that Diggs’ 2023 was a rerun of his 2022. Fantastic first half and miserable second half. No idea what to make of this other than it’s going to be interesting watching him in 2024.
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Given my avatar, it’s no shock I’m partial to the 1965 AFL Topps series. It’s oversized cards. Each team has a different color background. Bills are pink of all things. Most valuable card in the series is the Joe Namath rookie card. I have it, but it’s a little beat up. My wife gave me the OJ rookie card a couple of months before the murders. At the time, we lived a couple of blocks away from Nicole Brown’s condo.
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Strictly as a hypothetical, could Bengals and Chiefs do a straight up swap of Higgins and Sneed or would franchise tag rules prohibit that?
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That’s not a real name is it? It’s more like Mike Hunt or Dick Hurts, right?
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Alec Anderson was very impressive last preseason. I believe that they will give him a shot at starting. I’m guessing McGovern is the backup plan. Plus they will certainly use a mid-round draft choice on an interior OL.
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Bills eventually recovered from Black Thursday (granted it took 20 years 🥲). Sabres still looking to recover from the day they lost Drury and Briere.
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14 hours ago, NeverOutNick said:
Best CB we’ve ever had when healthy. Loved his attitude and everything about him but I understand the move. Hope he rebounds and plays great for an NFC team.
Sorry, young’n. Best CB was Robert James. He’d be in the HOF if not for a devastating knee injury in a meaningless preseason game.
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2 hours ago, MikePJ76 said:
The thread is about Free Agent Signings that put teams over the top. I pointed out that Charles Haley Was not a free agent signing. Haley brought an element Dallas did not have for the most part in 90 and 91 when they turned it around. However their defensive line was pretty good, it was their secondary that needed the most work and that is why Detroit with that unique for the time Run n Shoot offense was a mismatch. Detroit also was impossible to beat at the silverdome that year.
Since you want to take this approach with me I will respond accordingly. I started watching the nfl as a kid in 83. I am well aware of that era of the nfl. Dallas had another excellent draft in 92 which added to the team Kevin Smith, Robert Jones and Darren Woodson. Smith was outstanding, Jones was the rookie of the year and Woodson had a hall of fame career. Woodson is still the modern day prototype safety, Big and strong to play the run but quick and agile enough to cover the slot. He should be in the hall of fame. During the season they traded for safety Thomas Everett. They completely remade their secondary in 92 and it was unique for the time with a guy like woodson playing in Dallas mostly Cover 4 scheme on the backend. Haley was brought in right before the summer and fit right in providing the edge rush they needed but Dallas defense improved tremendously that offseason Haley withstanding.
I remember that Dallas draft so well because they drafted a player from Tennessee who went the rival high school of my high school....He was from Rome Free Academy (Rome, NY) and I was in 9th grade at the time at Proctor High School (Utica, NY) RFA and Proctor were rivals especially in baseball (my sport). Both had (Have) excellent baseball programs.
so again the thread is about free agent signings and you are mansplaining (somewhat incorrectly) Haley's importance to Dallas defense.
So one more time, Charles Haley was not a free agent signing that led to a championship because he was not a free agent signing.
that was 4 seasons later.
The packers underwent a ton of change in those 4 years before they won the superbowl. They got beat by Dallas in each of those 3 playoff losses in part because their big time free agent signing, Reggie White got manhandled by Dallas right tackle Eric Williams. Williams owned white.
Williams owned everybody. Maybe the best “unknown” lineman of all time. He physically destroyed a pretty good player in Phil Hansen in the Super Bowl rematch.
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We’re entering the most ridiculously over-hyped period of the entire NFL calendar (and no, it’s not because I’m bitter that the Bills have zero money to spend on free agents).
So, when has signing a FA worked to get a team a Super Bowl championship? Clearly, it’s happened. Reggie White in Green Bay. Brady in Tampa Bay. It took a couple of years but Brees in NO. Who am I missing?
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1 hour ago, Chaos said:
Its a cap move. too much cap hit for a backup.
True, but I also think that they do like Anderson.
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1 hour ago, babulator said:
Just think we could have drafted him and still had another 1st round pick. o\ F!@%ing Whaley. That trade/pick set us back years...
Not quite true. Tampa Bay picked him before our original pick was up. On the other hand, trading up for a HOF receiver would have been worth trading next year’s one. Truly a monumental FU by the front office. Make the trade and pick Mack or Evans. Stay put and pick Beckham or Donald. Rest of our draft that year was crap as well.
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Round 2, Pick 33: WR Keon Coleman, Florida State
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
Dave Keon had a pretty great career.