Alphadawg7

Could we? Cuz that was one game and Henne led the Chiefs to a 38 point game, higher than the the team average under Mahomes that year. So the gap would actually get wider if you took that game out. lol

Many of those pundits thought Allen was a reach at 7th. And almost unanimously those pundits said Trubisky was the best QB in a draft with Mahomes and Watson. So...I would say it means very little. Everyone on planet Earth is wrong more than they are right about these players and projecting who should go where, who is a reach, etc. If you redraft every draft in history now every single one would be drastically different. And more importantly, deciding someone is a reach or a steal on day 3 is a total waste of time. No one has any clue to where guys will really go and no one has any clue as to why a team likes said player or how they see the players remaining specifically fitting into their team, locker room and scheme. But we all do it...label guys steals and reaches...but honestly way too much is made of that and it really is a waste of time.

Not really...on a PPG average, the Bills were higher even before last year (again, only reason not in total points is the Hamlin game getting cancelled because we would have certainly scored 11 or more points that game).

In 2022. the Chiefs played 17 games and the Bills only played 16 games because of the cancelled Cincy game after the Hamlin incident. The Bills only needed to score 11 points in that game to where they would be the highest scoring in the league from 2020 to 2022 and they already had 3 when the game got cancelled.

Well if he went 5/5 then 2/5 that would make him 7/10 - which is still terrible, hence why I am still nervious even though I am still hopeful he get his stuff together this year.

Everyone pretty much agrees its Mahomes because of those accomplishments. What you are missing is what some are suggesting that if Allen had played in Mahomes shoes, he TOO would have similar (maybe even better) accolades and accomplishments too. I mean its pretty significant difference having to start your career on a roster being torn down, led by a defensive minded first time HC, with terrible weapons compared to Mahomes starting with a HOF offensive genius in Reid, and multiple first ballot HOF players like Hill and Kelce. And Allens mentor was Nathan Peterman...Mahomes had Smith coming off his best season of his career on a team that was 12-4 before Mahomes. Not to mention, Mahomes got to sit almost the whole year learning from Smith and Reid. Allen had to step in at half time week 1 because his mentor was a scrub. Even with those differences, Allen still has set records like most TD's in first 6 years, only player in history to put up 40 TD's in 4 straight seasons (and counting), etc despite the harder path. So you don't think its plausible Allen could or would have similar accolades had he played in KC instead of Mahomes with a better start and over situation for him as a QB? On a team with difference makers on BOTH sides of the ball compared to Allen being the only difference maker in Buffalo. I mean Diggs wasn't even one, he never had one good postseason in his 4 years here.

FWIW - Josh was named one of the most clutch players in the NFL https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bills-qb-josh-allen-named-one-of-nfl-s-most-clutch-players/ar-BB1phsFz?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=d7edec5ca20f4bc59de1e9f174cd0657&ei=20

No he went like 2/5

I want to believe in Bass...but I would be lying if I said I am not concerned, especially with how he started the OTA's.

Without question Brady is the GOAT because hypotheticals don't exist. All that exists is reality and its history. Brady is the one with 7 rings, he is the GOAT, there is no debate. Can I say for sure that he was the most talented and gifted QB to ever play...No. Do I think other QB's could have accomplished 7 rings if they had played in his place with his longevity...Yes. Do I think another QB could have won more than 7 rings if they had played in his place with his longevity....Possibly. Brady though is the GOAT, what he did and accomplished both in Rings and Longevity makes it indisputable. But am I certain he is a better QB overall than some of the other guys with top 5 and top 10 resumes...no I am not. The guys who was previously considered the GOAT was Montana...can you or anyone say for sure he was a better QB than Montana? I can't for sure say that. Montana played in an era where QB's took a beating and his body eventually failed him early. But at the time Montana retired he had 4 rings and was 4-0 in Super Bowls where Brady also had 4 SB rings, but had also lost 2. If Montana got to play in the era Brady did where you couldn't touch the QB, rules were rigged to help the passing game and receivers, and got the same special treatment from the refs that Brady got then maybe he could have played longer and his body wouldn't have broken down. And if you put Brady back in the Montana era where he gets hit and the CB's can still be physical with receivers, does he still play past 40, does he still get 7 rings? Since we can never know those answers, Brady is legitimately the GOAT based on his accomplishments. But I can't say for sure that he was the actual best QB to ever step on a field.

Right before Brady went up to close the show on the Roast of Tom Brady, Peyton Manning came out and stated BB was the greatest coach in NFL history. You don't think Manning knows had he been in Brady's shoes he would have more rings too? Manning and the Colts went one and done an NFL record 9 times in Indy, and the biggest reason was defensive issue. When he finally had a defense, they won the SB. Put Manning in NE with the greatest defensive mind in NFL history and Manning gets several more rings. I think that is a pretty safe bet. I dont know that Brady wins more than 1 ring in Indy like Manning if he played there though.

The same as Kelly...no rings.

1. Are you sure it's only current QB's and not any QB all time with at least 350 attempts? 2. You have to have enough of a sizable sample for the sample to matter in terms of determining a reliable expectation. 3. I am not the one who found the stat, it was in the article I linked. The one in the poll was the original, but it caused some early talk to go the wrong direction, so clarified it better in the post title and forgot to adjust it in the poll.

I hear you, but…It has happened…it’s just the D folded and gave up the lead Allen gave them.

I get that, and no argument from me. But I will add in that Mahomes started off getting to sit behind Alex Smith while learning from Andy Reid and working with HOF offensive talent around him. Then you have Allen, who started off with Nathan Peterman as the top QB on the roster, got thrown into starting in the 2nd half of his first game, while playing for a team that was tearing the roster down before it could begin a rebuild process the next season with a first time HC who was a DC previously and has had 3 OC's in the past 4 seasons as well. So there is no way that some of that doesn't impact some of those things above. And as far as drive to win and elevating the guys around him, there is no denying that they are at least equal in both. Every WR that has come to Buffalo has had their best seasons of their career with Allen by definitive amounts. He has made bums like Robert Foster look like he belongs in the NFL even. And Allen is as competitive and driven to win as any player in the league, and few can match him in those categories (Mahomes being one for sure though).

Yeah, I will take a SB over a player 100% of the time. Ravens don't love their SB trophy any less because Dilfer was their QB. Allen and Mahomes are easily to the two most need to watch players in the NFL, on any given play they can do something that no one else can do. Its like watching Barry Sanders play, on any given play you can have your mind blown. I just came across these articles and its a good reminder to just how good Allen really is, and with less. I think his rings are coming, and yes, I said "rings" as in multiple.

Show you what? What are you even asking me to show you? So...Allen has more touchdowns working with less...but you think somehow if Mahomes and Allen switched spots Allens numbers wouldn't be even better? LOL..come on, that is rich from you. Arent you the same guy who has been complaining about the lack of weapons for Allen? The same guy who has complained about our coaching? So for you to say that now would contradict a lot of your past rants about the coaching and weapons around Allen.

Allen had 2 OC's over that span, a first time OC who was fired 10 games into his 2nd season. Mahomes had Reid. You don't think that carries some weight in that comparison? Mahomes also had a defense that didn't force him to carry the team and press. Allen had a disgruntled WR as his top target...Mahomes had his bestie in Kelce as his who is probably also the GOAT at TE. The 2 situations are not equal. What if Mahomes and Allen swapped spots these past 2 years? You don't read enough social media or watch enough sports talk shows as it happens allllll the time.

Yet the 2 time MVP is Lamar Jackson.

Didn't realize passing TD's were worth more points than rushing TD's.

You know Allen only played 9 more games than Mahomes as a rookie right? Yet he is a sizeable lead on the TD's for first 6 years still, and again has nearly a 20 TD lead over Mahomes in the last 4 years playing for a defensive HC and 3 different OC's. And Allen started with trash on a team being torn down for 2 seasons before the rebuild really started. Mahomes started on a playoff caliber team with a HOF HC and 2 all time greats to throw too.

This year...for me...its Von Miller. I know a popular choice is Elam, but I am still optimistic on Elam, not ready to condemn him, so I don't want to be wrong about that lol. But Miller is a player I have had real doubts about being able to really get back to being a real contributor. I know there are positive reports out there, but the game changes dramatically when pads are on and the games begin. And at his age, expecting a resurgence is asking a lot. What I fear most is this...he comes out early and starts to look like he is back and its more of a mirage and is on the field too much because of it. Maybe gets 4-6 sacks in the first 6 games for example because he comes out fired up and that has people thinking he really is back. But he is old now, and its been a long time since he played a full season and then had to play a post season too. I fear his legs will fade the more reps he gets and becomes a liability again in the playoffs. Too much is made of sacks...sure they are great, but if a player gets say 8 sacks on a season...that is just a measly 8 plays he made...what happened on all the other plays? Is Von going to be a liability most plays but still manage to make 8 to 10 plays over the course of a season? What condition will he be in come playoffs if he plays the whole season is a real concern because it is the post season where we have NOT had a Chris Jones like player making the key stops to seal wins for Allen like Mahomes has had. So if the game is on the line, will Von have enough Juice to make the play...worse yet, if he doesn't will he still be on the field than say someone like AJE who may have a better shot at making a real play? I think it is almost worse if Von has some early season success then fades because he may be getting too many reps come playoff time based on that and that could hurt us more if he gets too many postseason snaps and isn't up for it.

Allen has More TD's than Mahomes over their first 6 years...Allen has more TD's since 2020 than Mahomes by a wide margin. Mahomes started his first season with a TE and WR that are amongst the best to ever play, a HC that is credited as being one of the best offensive minds in NFL history, and after sitting a year behind a pretty good QB in Alex Smith. Meanwhile...Allen started his career learning from Nathan Peterman, playing for a first time HC who was a defensive mind, on a roster being torn down to shed cap to start rebuilding the year after from the ground up, throwing to Fat Albert Benjamin, burrito hands Zay Jones, and hands made of Clay at TE. So if you want to just compare thier first full seasons then you haven't been paying attention. And no one is denying that...but what if Allen was playing for KC in those same playoff games? How much better would his numbers be under Reid and having guys like Kelce and Hill and having a defense not choke away games with players like Chris Jones making the plays to end them? That is the real question...if all things were equal, would it really still be Mahomes or not? I think the answer to that question is a lot closer than people think.

Rings will always win every argument...I get that, and its fair. But ultimately, having watched the players around Allen squander Allens own greatness in the post season gets held against Allen way too much and I think it creates this huge gap between how people see Mahomes and Allen respectively. But I think they are a lot closer than Allen gets credit for personally, and if Allen gets say 2 rings he will have his own case for best in the NFL.

I agree, its going to be Mahomes...but that is because of the SB rings...and Mahomes has also had the people around him make the plays needed to win in the postseason, especially on defense, where Allen has not. Meanwhile Allen has had 3 OC's in last 4 seasons, and a defense that never made the big play in the postseason. Especially in 2021 and 2023, Bills should have beaten the Chiefs twice...but KC had guys make the plays, while Allens teammates didn't. Diggs dropping passes, defense giving up leads with 13 seconds and coming up lame in OT. Meanwhile, guys like Chris Jones is out there wrecking offenses to seal games for Mahomes. So I think the question is a lot close than people think.