GaryPinC
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I agree, but that's how it looks to be playing out. Mack doesn't look like he wants to stay in Cleveland and Banner doesn't look like he's going to shell out the cash to even make it interesting. It doesn't make sense to me either.
Ward looks more amenable to staying and it looks like he will be re-signed or tagged.
All of Mack's quotes show he wanted to stay in Cleveland and was happy having Chud as a coach. Nothing I could find since the firing, though. TJ Ward wanted to stay and finish what's been started, but again, before the firing. The players in that locker room have been a tight-knit team and stuck through all the coaching and front office turmoil for years now. Firing Chud may have broken the morale of that locker room and IMO if Mack and Ward exit whoever decides to coach has a nearly impossible task in healing that locker room and restoring faith in the front office.
Mack and Ward would be worth keeping simply to restore some faith in the front office. If they leave, look out below.
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I don't know much about Chud but I know that Carolina's offense improved after he left and that he seems to mix one good year with one bad year as an OC.
It'll be interesting to see where he ends up.
On a tangent, it's sad to see Chud fired. He apparently was an Ohio kid and would set up the TV outside on cold December days when watching the Browns on TV. He would also eat dog biscuits because he thought of himself as a member of the Dawg Pound.
Chud was a dyed-in-wool Browns fan from childhood.
I agree that it's sad the guy was fired. I know back in 07, Derek Anderson played with a lot of conviction and then in 2008 he just seemed to have no confidence. I think Chud's a pretty good coach and he deserved better. In my view it's hard to blame the OC if your quarterback sucks. Kind of why I'm not as pissed off at Hackett as so many are. Clearly his hands were tied with Manuel but less so with Thad. I thought overall the playcalling was respectable with Thad in there so I'm willing to give Hackett the benefit of the doubt for now.
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Yeah, we sure can look down at their back to back AFC championship appearances 3 years ago, and 8-8 record this year with a godawful rookie QB.
What a gas, people actually think the Jets are more of a loser organization than us.
+1 Considering what they went also through this offseason, I am more than impressed with the season they put together. Rex can coach.
Given Manuel's injuries and problems quickly reading NFL defenses, do we really NOT take a QB in the draft? We don't have to sell our soul for one but this is the most important position in the NFL. Until we know we have a great one we need to keep trying. Got to respect the Jets for that, and if Smith can't mentally handle the challenge he probably wouldn't last in the NFL. We are doing Manuel no favors babying him and giving him the job, IMO.
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Alex Marvez tweeted that Levitre is going to have hip surgery and that Buffal owas worried about his long term health when they let him go. Maybe we weren't crazy to avoid paying him all that money.,...
Kind of wondered if his long term health was a factor in that decision. It's one advantage the FO has knowledge of that we don't.
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:lol: It's one thing to not like Hackett but why exactly would you love Chud as offensive coordinator?
I'd love to have Chud as OC because in 2007 he was given that position with the Browns and produced a top ten NFL offense, after being ranked 30th in 2006. It's not that often a first year OC can produce a quality offense especially having Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn as your QB options and having been ranked #30 the year before. He's had his ups and downs coaching college and NFL but I think he's a good coach and has demonstrated to me he can be solid but creative as an OC, while working with the talent and tools given instead of trying to impose an abstract.
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Awesome column with insight into why Bill O'Brien left Penn State for #Texans: http://tinyurl.com/onb3nck
Great article. Certainly shows O'Brien as someone who wasn't a fit for the type of figurehead Penn St. wanted. He certainly did a good job there though.
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Well, I guess Buffalo fans can point to a franchise consistently in worse shape then us now. Players seemed to like Chud and can't help but think the more talented ones will be leaving as soon as they can. Just a really stupid move.
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I am not sure that I disagree with him. They dumbed down the playbook in week 14. He made poor reads and audibles. EJ struggles with accuracy. I have been one to support him but have not seen anything that tells me that he is going to be a quality NFL starter.
+1 Out of all the ups and downs EJ has had this season dumbing down the playbook again is the one action that tips the balance to drafting a top prospect in 2014, IMO.
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I don't like the Toronto series but saying the Toronto game cost the Bills a shot at the playoffs is extremely short-sighted. They tanked too many games this year to pin it on one game. I was at the Pittsburgh game and they played like utter crap. As others said, if we hadn't turned the ball over twice late in the Toronto game this topic doesn't happen. Once they put a better product on the field maybe the fans up there will warm up, and more from Buffalo would pay the extra $$ to see them up there.
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The issue is that they should be in a "win now" mentality. They are riding the last years of Joe Thomas at LT (whose play has dropped off) and who knows how long Haden will be there. The issue is at QB and they did not successfully address it or have a plan to develop Weeden because. Someone said they passed on drafting one because it wasn't a "good QB draft." It is actually because they just picked Weeden in the 1st round the year prior. The fact he didn't progress (actually regressed) puts them a step behind any team who already has one or is developing one. Weeden was a huge bust and at 29, he has a shorter window than the typical rookie. Their previous FO/coach drafted him so the current has no interest in developing him. They don't have a franchise QB, haven't had one for a long, long time, have missed repeatedly on their QB draft picks, and taking a year off is not acceptable. They do have some pieces. They need the QB. They are discussing Cutler at the moment, believe it or not, in the local media.
Why should they be in a "win now" (vs "build a winner") ? There was an entire new front office and coaching staff put in place this year. I respect the fact that they did not have a massive roster purge as seems common with changes such as this. Do you really want a perennially losing team to be always in a "win now" mode where they immediately dump the old roster and insist on bringing in their own guys? Also, milking the draft as much as they can even if the talent to fill their needs is not there? "Win now" teams give their coaches 1 to 3 years and dump them. Cleveland and Buffalo have both been in that mode a long time now. Works great, doesn't it?
I briefly thought Banner was crazy giving up draft picks until 2014, until I realized what he's trying to do. You and some other fans may not like it, you may think that they're "taking a year off" but he's trying to break the 2-3 year constant turnover that perpetuates losing by holding steady and seeing what they've got and can keep rather than just blowing it up. Hopefully it results in much less roster turnover and correspondingly less needs in the draft. And his top 3 2013 picks are keepers.
As far as the QB situation, I don't care why they decided to keep Weeden. In my mind it is smart to give a highly-picked, 2nd year QB a long look, especially in a weak QB draft year. They had an ok plan with Hoyer as backup until he forgot how to slide. I do agree they need a QB and with extra (high) draft picks in a supposedly QB-strong 2014 draft Cleveland should be able to get the QB they want and believe can succeed.
Would you really rather have had Banner mortgage off his 2015 draft to get his QB in 2014 or mortgage your 2013 picks and team, in a year they weren't going to contend anyways, for that QB?
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No potential buyers? Are you insane? When this team is put up for auction, it will be the wildest "can you top this" event in the history of the NFL. When has an NFL team (there are only 32 of them in the universe) ever (ever) been put up for open auction? I believe the answer is "never" (someone needs to look this up). This will be wild, with many bidders coming out of the woodwork for whom money is no object. The whole GB thing is very quaint, but you guys need to wake up and smell the coffee… this auction will be wild and any cute little group from the ole B Lo who thinks they will get the home town discount is in for a rude awakening.
Do you really believe there will be a truly "open" auction? What happens when the NFL does not approve the new ownership? Ralph Wilson has always been acutely sensitive to putting the league above the individual teams. I also believe that he seeks to burden his family as little as possible with the sale of this franchise. I would bet he has mapped out the process with the league and it will be a pretty orderly process. What makes the most sense is to have a small group of bidders, each pre-approved by the NFL. Closed bidding.
Where they are in that process is completely subjective, all the innuendos from Kelly et al. about the Bills' future seem to me to indicate there is at least a process, and if you put any stock in Kelly's confidence, keeping the team in the Buffalo area for at least some specified length of time is part of the process. You could get crazy and suppose the 7th year buyout might be to facilitate moving to a new stadium or simply moving out of town.
I could see RW identifying ownership groups now and negotiating the details of ownership transfer (minus the sale price) ahead of time to ease the burden on his family. But I don't know any more than anybody else and probably less.
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Not acceptable in the NFL. Not for a fan base that has been though what they have. And they haven't communicated the plan well, but "planning" a washout year is a bad feeling. At least pretend.
They did pretend, and the Browns were looking pretty strong for a while. The minute they gave up 2 draft pick positions for better ones in 2014 and signed no significant free agents every knowledgeable fan should have known what was going on. I did, and I'm no especially knowledgeable fan. After they traded T. Richardson it was beyond obvious. FO knows it's unacceptable to the fans, especially ticket sales, but the fans will quickly forgive once the plan starts working.
Why would any front office announce a planned rebuilding year? No one ever wants to hear that and no one would respect them for coming out and saying it.
At the end of the season, the coaches and FO will know exactly what they have, need and want. That's smart. And they will have a bunch of extra draft picks to leverage. Smart. I have to respect Joe Banner for being ballsy in sticking with the plan. Now, if he can't deliver on his draft picks next year, then there might just be some lynchings. ;-)
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Little is the Browns equialent to TJ Graham. Maybe you saw a good game from him? If you know what their plan is the fans would like to know! They have none! They do appear to have won the trade with the Colts but keep in mind it was really a wash, as they traded one of their #1 picks up to get him and it will be a late 1st rd pick. No one knows if Hoyer will start next year but if he does, who knows what you will get as he did nothing in college or the NFL, on several diiferent teams until he came in and played decent for a few games this year. Their QB situation is very cloudy.
The plan has been to stockpile draft picks and have a huge draft in 2014, you saw that come in to play in the 2013 drafts trading 4th and 5th round picks for 2014 3rd and 4th round. They appear to have hit with Mingo, Gordon and McFadden, their top 3 picks. Is there any doubt they will select a quarterback as first priority? They have a good defense, just need to work on O-line (especially if they don't sign Alex Mack) and a running back (which isn't that hard to pick up), then just the odd DB and/or LB.
There's a plan in place but winning this year was not in it. Hard for Cleveland fans to accept but that was/is the plan. Weak quarterback draft in 2013 so they chose not to address it. They did take a big risk trading T. Richardson but he was an injury concern and his motivation was questionable. Sorry, Indy.
I can't agree equating Little to TJ Graham. Little is more effective than Graham but is inconsistent (goes through bouts of the dropsies). I can't say who has the better plan until next year and am anxious to see how Whaley does with no Nix factor. The scary part is that for a rebuilding year Cleveland was looking very strong until their QB situation went to the dumpster. Cleveland fans are like us in that they expected playoffs but the minute they made the draft day trades I figured this was a washout year.
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The Browns fans feel just as cursed as Bills fans, it seems. Saying any of their QBs right now are better than EJ is a bit of a stretch. That is like naming the Valedictorian of summer school.
Yea, I live in Cleveland too and no way would I take any of their QB's (including Hoyer) over EJ Manuel. Browns fans are just as cursed as us. But if they can retain their critical players they have a ton of draft picks in the spring and could be sitting well if they select the right QB. We'll see.
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I thought EJ stepped it up in the clutch and that is the best thing that came out of this game. His development is the only important thing left in this season.
I thought Atlanta did not play like a 2 win team today, especially on offense.
It was great watching a franchise quarterback (Ryan) work.
It was great watching a well coached, fundamentally sound team (atlanta). Very impressed with how they tackled correctly the first time.
Stevie has proven most of the time not to be reliable in the clutch. Do we really want him?
Agree that Chandler should be a back up.
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The few times Byrd has talked about his situation he usually mentions being somewhere where he's wanted. Most players want to be resigned before the last year of their contract, one single play on the field can end their career and they know it.
Buddy Nix always seemed to take his time resigning players and I think it really bit the organization hard in this case. To Whaley,Marrone, and Brandon's credit they have remained upbeat, positive, and sound like they really want Jairus here.
Byrd may also just be sick of losing and the coaching turnover. Hopefully he thinks we're on the way up now.
I like him and hope we re-sign him. Given his contract is in limbo, I don't blame him one bit for making sure he was sufficiently healed from plantar fascitis. Why risk a serious injury and hurt his chances of getting a lucrative contract?
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He was awesome last week, too.
He was not, I was at that game. It was feast or famine with Dareus. He made some excellent plays but had a lot of plays where he was easily neutralized or flat out pushed backwards by the Steelers. Sounds like he was more consistent against the jets, hope he figures it out and it keeps up. He definitely has the talent.
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Very disheartening. Don't know what's in CJ's head, but if he doesn't get it straight he's not going to see the field much. There were yards to be had against Pitt, which could have gotten the Bills into the flow and given EJ some better opportunities.
I was sitting behind the endzone watching CJ miss all these holes and first play with Freddy and he does the same damn thing! Though Freddie didn't have as much of a hole but the Pittsburgh run defense was keying the outside corner. It really wasn't until the second half that runs up the middle were called. Frustrating.
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I was at the game today and wanted to add my impressions:
EJ Manuel: I know he's just a rookie but he had little pocket awareness, little accuracy on his throws (even ones close to receivers weren't leading them), footwork was terrible (short armed many pass attempts) and really wasn't doing his progressions, mostly focused on one or two receivers. I know he's young, but schnikes, you'd like to see something, anything better out of your "franchise" quarterback. He needs to make astounding progress or we need to draft his replacement just in case.
Hackett called like the same 2 run plays and 2-3 pass plays the entire first half. Formations were slightly different but if that's all that Manuel could handle I would have preferred Lewis. He finally varied plays in the second half. Spiller missed some holes early being too intent to bounce it outside
Dareus needs to be a backup and considered a bust. He made some good plays but the rest of the time got eaten up. He can't get off a block and only seems effective when shooting gaps. He just doesn't go hard all the time. Kyle is good and worth starting but he got stood up today often also. We need an impact interior D-lineman and Dareus is not it. Talent is there but too inconsistent. Pittsburgh was just pounding our interior D backwards too much today.
Our special teams suck.
Overall just a lethargic and incredibly frustrating game to witness. So utterly disappointing. Same old Bills
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But as others have pointed out too, what makes a person strong in real life is not necessarily what makes a person strong in a professional football setting. Anyone ask why so few NFL players and current Dolphins have unequivocally come to Martin's support. Everything his current teammates have said has been very subtle. If it was truly as bad as the stories that are written, I'm guessing there would be far more commentary from the Dolphins players.
Pretty much all the NFL players/former players who will talk about the subject say it should have stayed and been handled within the locker room. So now Martin's current teamates are supposed to follow his example and bring it out of the locker room?
For me, I took some hints from Woods' comments on Incognito:
"But man (Incognito) crossed the line with some of the language that he used. I know Richie well; we have the same agent and he was here in 2009 when I broke my leg. I know Richie, he's kind of a cross-the-line humor type of guy. I think he probably had a misjudgment here, especially with the voicemail he left, and that's the only evidence really that you can go by."
I also look at all the various pictures that have surfaced of Incognito and Martin together. Maybe I'm wrong but seems like they hung out at times. Richie was a team captain. Then there's Martin's former high school coach who talked about how much Martin internalized.
Richie is a first class Richard. He's dirty, crosses the line into offensive humor and cares primarily about himself. Obviously he got along well with at least some of his teammates.
For me everything points to Martin not standing up for himself and Richie just continuing to push the limits farther and farther. Wouldn't be surprised if Incognito was hoping Martin would fight back. Well, he did in his own way. Not the NFL way, but his own way. Seems like the NFL way will be changing.
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From Gaughan's article today:
Asked if he had heard any whispers of a possible trade from his agent, Byrd said, "I don't want to get into that. I'm here. Let's win."
Is he glad to be staying in Buffalo?
"Yeah, let's win," he said.
I'm sure that persistent line of questioning really helps the situation. Is there anybody who doesn't realize the guy just wants out of here?
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Coach85,
Good for you for living your life and not just staying at home or sending him to stay somewhere because your son is so young. Any foul language he hears will not stay with him and I'm sure you and your wife will be on guard for potential problems around you and quickly get him out of there if he is causing a problem. Of the Bills games I have been to, it doesn't take long to figure out if there's going to be trouble close to you. Drunks are never subtle. With another youngster on the way, it's much easier to do this type of thing now so definitely take advantage but be careful. Glad your boy is able to behave so well, if I had brought mine at that age he had too much energy to sit still and I wouldn't have seen much of the game. Definitely let us know how it goes.
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I agree that you can't really know how deep this runs, but I do think it's different than what was said about Gailey. The Gailey stuff was just about a general "winning mentality" if I remember.
This is much more specific. It's about a mental shift from focusing on minimizing mistakes to focusing on forgetting about mistakes and making plays.
I think that's big, if it's true. I've never believed in a coaching philosophy that is essentially defensive or protective, i.e., "If we can only run our plays perfectly as they are designed without making any errors, we will succeed." or "If we can only march down the field without any negative plays or penalties, we will succeed." Never, ever gonna happen that way. Football is too fast and complex. Even the best teams make physical and mental errors all the time.
Plus, it gets people away from thinking about what awesome, productive, game-changing play they can make on the current play. Instead their heads are filled with images of what they are trying to avoid. Great players and great teams don't think that way.
So I am really glad to read the quotes in that article. Hope that attitude sticks.
Great post, couldn't have said it better myself. Every failed head coach has come through here talking about wanting to win and "it's hard to win in the NFL". Every single person on this planet likes to win, the true issue is getting players to consistently put their heart and effort in to achieve that, especially if they have to fight through failure first.
Marrone is the first coach we've had in recent times who seems continually sensitive in finding different ways to change the mindset of losing, not simply hoping winning will be the only cure.
Maybe it's all fluff, maybe he loses his players, but I'm happy to see that he's consistent about it.
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Loved this article. So many coaches focus so much on the x's and o's of the game, micro-examining mistakes and ignore the need to mentally keep the team moving in a positive direction.
This translates to all levels of sports and this article shows how over the years when the rest of the fans were thinking "oh, crap here it comes" so were the players!
Criticize Marrone all you want but he and his staff deserve time to grow and develop the team as well as themselves because unlike their predecessors they've got the fundamentals correct.
Mike Pettine speculation-interviewing w Cleveland
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I also believe Haslam was solely behind Chud's firing and I predict Banner will move on within the next year, probably sometime after the draft. He had a great plan right up until they fired Chud.