MattM Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patrio...ork-speaks.html My only bet on this situation is that the media will report this and the Pats*' reaction to it as 180 degrees different than they did when it was the Bills doing the exact same thing--if/when Kraft refuses to pay Fatboy it will be hailed all over the sports media world as an example of "principles" vs. when Ralph does it "he's just being his usual cheap loser self"....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOOBY Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Winning usually makes the ownership / management look smarter, even if they're cheating-asterisk butt F-ers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 How we glance over the major difference. The Patriots have guys they can move in and out. While Wilfork is a tremendous nt, and don't even lie bills fans would be happier than pigs in sh-- to have someone the caliber of Wilfork next to stroud. The patriots are in a position where they can let him go. They have Seymour Ty Warren, Wright, Jarvis Green and they just drafted Boston tackle DT Ron Brace. It's not like they'd be getting rid of Pat Williams and replacing him with Ron Edwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patrio...ork-speaks.html My only bet on this situation is that the media will report this and the Pats*' reaction to it as 180 degrees different than they did when it was the Bills doing the exact same thing--if/when Kraft refuses to pay Fatboy it will be hailed all over the sports media world as an example of "principles" vs. when Ralph does it "he's just being his usual cheap loser self"....... Yeah, that sure worked great for ESPN with the last CBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 How we glance over the major difference. The Patriots have guys they can move in and out. While Wilfork is a tremendous nt, and don't even lie bills fans would be happier than pigs in sh-- to have someone the caliber of Wilfork next to stroud. The patriots are in a position where they can let him go. They have Seymour Ty Warren, Wright, Jarvis Green and they just drafted Boston tackle DT Ron Brace. It's not like they'd be getting rid of Pat Williams and replacing him with Ron Edwards Wilfork is a NT. The others are DE's, and Brace is wholly unproven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Wilfork is a NT. The others are DE's, and Brace is wholly unproven. Agreed, not to mention the patriots have been stinking up the draft the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Wilfork is a NT. The others are DE's, and Brace is wholly unproven. Richard Seymour is a swing player, and they consistently moved him around over his career. In a base 3-4 yes he's a dend. He started his career out as a 4-3 dt. They lose Wilfork, go back to playing a 4-3 like they have in past years, without much problem along their dline. They're tailor made for either system. As far as Brace goes of course he's "unproven" but it's forward thinking to draft a guy who can potentially play the same position 3-4 nt as someone they may lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Wilfork's strategy isn't likely to work with the Pats*. Of course, I hope he sits out the whole year, as he is quite effective. I'd be remiss if I didn't also mention he is one of the league's dirtiest players, and should have been suspended on numerous occasions. He's a real POS scum, but he is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Its astonishing how similar that thread looks to this board around this time last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Richard Seymour is a swing player, and they consistently moved him around over his career. In a base 3-4 yes he's a dend. He started his career out as a 4-3 dt. They lose Wilfork, go back to playing a 4-3 like they have in past years, without much problem along their dline. They're tailor made for either system. As far as Brace goes of course he's "unproven" but it's forward thinking to draft a guy who can potentially play the same position 3-4 nt as someone they may lose. Kind of like the Bills in drafting McKelvin when they knew they'd lose Greer, no? Or just about anyone else in that situation--like the Chargers taking that OLB early this year since they might lose Merriman even though they're stacked at the position? Other teams do the exact same thing all over the League. I hope they let Fatboy walk personally, since (a) while he is a POS dirty player, he is one of the top DT's in the League, and (b) their drafts have indeed sucked the big one the last three years (and that was with both Pioli and Dimitroff for most of those). Fatboy is the second most important player on their team, IMHO. They lose him in the middle and that D is nothing special at all. BTW, Seymour is a UFA next year, too, as is Logan Mankins (more big money due), so Richard may not be around next year, either--who was the replacement for him they drafted again? From what I've read, literally something like 25-30% of their team are FA's next offseason...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I guess the major difference here is that Wilfork has played consistently well (dirty at times), unlike fat boy Peters who didn't deserve a raise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Agreed, not to mention the patriots have been stinking up the draft the last few years. Yeah, I mean, it's not as though they drafted the 2008 Defensive Rookie of the Year (Jerod Mayo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Yeah, I mean, it's not as though they drafted the 2008 Defensive Rookie of the Year (Jerod Mayo). Are you really this stupid? 1 good players among 25 bad ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Well when we bring in a new coach after Limp Dicks firing, I am hoping our new coach employs a 3-4. I then hope Wilfork signs with us. F the Pats*, Go Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Are you really this stupid? 1 good players among 25 bad ones? I fail to see how drafting the most recent Defensive ROTY means that the Patriots "suck" at drafting, but just for your case, I'll play along as though it's a real debate (I have been accused of being a masterdebator). Please enlighten me, who are these horrible players that New England seems to keep drafting year after year? Since, of course, they have starters at the following positions that were draft picks: QB, RB, LT, LG, C, RG, RT, TE, RDE, NT, LDE, LILB, RILB, FS, SS Or is it just that their last few drafts haven't produced many starters because they haven't had to force their young players into action because they have a really good team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 No Fingon, but thank you for asking. Please enlighten me, who are these horrible players that New England seems to keep drafting year after year? Since, of course, they have starters at the following positions that were draft picks: QB, RB, LT, LG, C, RG, RT, TE, RDE, NT, LDE, LILB, RILB, FS, SS Or is it just that their last few drafts haven't produced many starters because they haven't had to force their young players into action because they have a really good team. Their last few drafts haven't produced much of anything. Your point would be valid if their players, once released, were starters on lesser teams... but that hasn't happened. The Pats need a lot of help on defense, but the players they have drafted (Meriweather) haven't been very good. To say that the patriots have had a good last few drafts is completely retarded, and the only way the "they are too good for their rookies to make the team" argument works is if they have no holes. It's obvious the Pats need help, or they wouldn't have an abysmal 3rd down defense, or be average at sacking the QB. The Patriots have been historically good drafters, but the last few years have sucked for them. They will need to retain their FAs because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Here you go--you make the call, but from where I sit, there's no one really there (other than perhaps Mayo, who I thought was a tad overrated last year) that excites me. Maroney had the potential, but he's a shell of his rookie self lately. With Meriweather, I can't get over watching him get torched in the Super Bowl, particularly on that last drive (even more in particular on a key play that let the G-Men get a key first down right before they scored--he got screened right out of the play on that Steve Smith catch). 2008 1.10 LB Jerod Mayo Tennessee from NO 2.31 DB Terrence Wheatley Colorado 3.15 LB Shawn Crable Michigan from NO 3.31 QB Kevin O'Connell San Diego State 4.30 DB Jonathan Wilhite Auburn 5.18 WR Matt Slater UCLA from TB 6.31 LB Bo Ruud Nebraska 2007 1.24 DB Brandon Meriweather Miami from SEA 4.28 DL Kareem Brown Miami 5.34 OL Clint Oldenburg Colorado State compensatory pick 6.06 LB Justin Rogers Southern Methodist from ARI 6.28 DB Mike Richardson Notre Dame 6.34 RB Justise Hairston Central Connecticut compensatory pick 6.35 OL Corey Hilliard Oklahoma State compensatory pick 7.01 LB Oscar Lua Southern California from OAK 7.37 OL Mike Elgin Iowa compensatory pick 2006 1.21 RB Laurence Maroney Minnesota 2.04 WR Chad Jackson Florida from GB; trade 2006 2.20, 3.11 3.22 TE David Thomas Texas 4.09 RB Garrett Mills Tulsa from DET 4.21 K Stephen Gostkowski Memphis 5.03 OL Ryan O'Callaghan California from OAK 6.22 DL Jeremy Mincey Florida 6.36 OL Dan Stevenson Notre Dame compensatory pick 6.37 DL Le Kevin Smith Nebraska compensatory pick 7.21 DB Willie Andrews Baylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I fail to see how drafting the most recent Defensive ROTY means that the Patriots "suck" at drafting, but just for your case, I'll play along as though it's a real debate (I have been accused of being a masterdebator). Please enlighten me, who are these horrible players that New England seems to keep drafting year after year? Since, of course, they have starters at the following positions that were draft picks: QB, RB, LT, LG, C, RG, RT, TE, RDE, NT, LDE, LILB, RILB, FS, SS Or is it just that their last few drafts haven't produced many starters because they haven't had to force their young players into action because they have a really good team? You hit the nail right on the head. I wish our organization sucked as much as the Patriots have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Their last few drafts haven't produced much of anything. Your point would be valid if their players, once released, were starters on lesser teams... but that hasn't happened. The Pats need a lot of help on defense, but the players they have drafted (Meriweather) haven't been very good. To say that the patriots have had a good last few drafts is completely retarded, and the only way the "they are too good for their rookies to make the team" argument works is if they have no holes. It's obvious the Pats need help, or they wouldn't have an abysmal 3rd down defense, or be average at sacking the QB. The Patriots have been historically good drafters, but the last few years have sucked for them. They will need to retain their FAs because of that. I'd actually say this is the post that hits the nail right on the head, personally. Lots of those guys aren't even on the Pats* any more and a decent number aren't even in the League. Compare that to their admittedly fantastic drafts earlier this decade and they are drafting like shells of their former selves and, as noted above, that was WITH Pioli and Dimitroff (their former head of college scouting, who became Atlantas' GM (i.e, the guy who took Ryan last year) in 2008). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 First off, Fingon, having an opinion that New England drafts well is not "retarded". Insinuating that it is, however, is another issue. But all idiocy aside, I think you guys are missing my point. I'm willing to bet (admittedly, without doing the research) that most teams' rosters look this way. If half of a draft class is with a team 3 years later, it's probably a good draft. You still need to explain to me how the Patriots "suck" at drafting when their impact players at virtually every position (other than WR, which they recently started filling via free agency) came from the draft. You can throw in as many "yeah, buts" as you want, but it doesn't change that fact. Yes, I know that both Dimitroff and Pioli are gone. Yes, I know that those two had a lot of say in who New England drafted from 1999 to 2007. You claim that the Patriots "sucked" in the last 3 drafts. Well guys, Dimitroff and Pioli ran the 2007 draft, and Pioli also ran the 2008 draft, so those two would (under your argument) contribute just as heavily to the apparent "sucking" as anyone else, which kind of belies the remainder of that point. No draft that produces an impact rookie, let alone the ROTY, sucks. If New England's last 3 drafts were so bad, what does that make Buffalo's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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