BillsVet Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 My point is that when the Bills are ready to make a real run for the Super Bowl, these guys won't be rookies. Because they are still BUILDING the team, they can pick the best player available in anyone of their need areas. Will it EVER happen? The odds are against it, but they have to time their acquisitions properly. To fix the mess of the previous regime could take some time, but I expect the playoffs this season. This is Marv's 2nd draft, give the guy 3 drafts at least. The central question is, when can we at least get to the playoffs and be in a position to win one game in the post-season? Because now it seems enough people are saying to wait some more, another season and a draft to be exact. That's not acceptable. How many years of building to get to a level where we can see playoffs? 2 more? 3 more? If I'm waiting until after three Levy (read Jauron) drafts, I'm looking at the 2008 season! I don't think a lot of fans have that much patience. The NFL is always a win-now mentality. I think you've gotta have patience, but only to a certain degree. At some point you've gotta wonder when. And if it takes Marv three years to get the team to the playoffs, what is in the water down there at the Meadowlands that allows the Jets to make it to playoffs the same year they hired Mangini? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I tend to think 'holding your own' means(& what I meant when I said it) that the player is not a liability. Most starters in most positions around the league 'hold their own'. They are not stars(or good).....nor are they liabilities. Most rookies cannot 'hold their own'. Pennington couldn't. However........ Whitner, Simpson, Williams could......meaning that for the most of it, they were not liabilities......meaning(back to your original concept) they were not playing simply "out of sheer desperation and lack of depth", those guys were playing because they could get the job done without being liabilities to the team. Again, I agree that people saying "Oooh, Pennington started & was a 7th round pick.....he's ACE....Marv's marvelous!" is thoughtless since he did start "out of sheer desperation and lack of depth".....but for you to lump all the other rookies in with him is equally wrong. OK, I'll go along with that. Fair enough. Providing a definition about holding your own is helpful in the dialogue. Most guys aren't stars in the NFL. I'd like to be at least average to above average at every position. DJ seemed to echo that sentiment lately, but I don't have the link saying it. I think Whitner will become a good player. Same with Simpson who had a chip on his shoulder seemingly from being drafted in the 4th. Only time will tell. And there's some time left for evaluation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Git'er Done Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 The central question is, when can we at least get to the playoffs and be in a position to win one game in the post-season? Because now it seems enough people are saying to wait some more, another season and a draft to be exact. That's not acceptable. How many years of building to get to a level where we can see playoffs? 2 more? 3 more? If I'm waiting until after three Levy (read Jauron) drafts, I'm looking at the 2008 season! I don't think a lot of fans have that much patience. The NFL is always a win-now mentality. I think you've gotta have patience, but only to a certain degree. At some point you've gotta wonder when. And if it takes Marv three years to get the team to the playoffs, what is in the water down there at the Meadowlands that allows the Jets to make it to playoffs the same year they hired Mangini? What are you gonna do about it? Fire the management ? Start over? Move? Plus I still wanna know who you (and others) think is gonna win the Super Bowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorp15 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Did you read Marv's Book ? He has won everywhere he has been except Cal at the ned of the Vietnam War when no one at Cal( Berekley) cared about football. Coe College, New Mexico, William & Mary, Montreal, Turned KC around and the Bills. He hired High School Coaches Bill Walsh and Bobby Ross. Hired a Salesman Bill Polian as a scout. He always shores up the defense first and has a good kicking game ( special teams) then he works on the running game. Notice that he got the O line together. His idea of running back by committee is Thurman Thomas and Kenny Davis. I predict that we will get the stud multidementional back. Similar to what John Butler did with LT or Bill Polian did with Edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Drafting Lynch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombstone56 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 the problem i have with the theory of moving crowell to mlb is they have stated they wanted bigger lb in that slot,, keep in mind juaron was the guy that drafted briggs and urlacher when he was with chicago,,,255 ,260?? crowell is a wlb by size being only 228 by his account stating to s trying to get to 230 ,, wow big guy.. i dont care how they do but get us patrick willis,, he'd be a fixture there for a decade..ps i still think spikes is history he wasnt in attendance for otas if i heard right.spikes and a 3 for nyg 1st take poz there ,, there that works for me ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Chief Navy Pride Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 the problem i have with the theory of moving crowell to mlb is they have stated they wanted bigger lb in that slot,, keep in mind juaron was the guy that drafted briggs and urlacher when he was with chicago,,,255 ,260?? crowell is a wlb by size being only 228 by his account stating to s trying to get to 230 ,, wow big guy.. i dont care how they do but get us patrick willis,, he'd be a fixture there for a decade..ps i still think spikes is history he wasnt in attendance for otas if i heard right.spikes and a 3 for nyg 1st take poz there ,, there that works for me ... Spikes and a 3rd for the NYG 1st round pick!!!! That has got to be the funniest thing I have ever read!!! Can you provide me with 1 (just 1) good reason why the NYG or anyone else for that matter would not laugh for days at that offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 What are you gonna do about it? Fire the management ? Start over? Move? Plus I still wanna know who you (and others) think is gonna win the Super Bowl What am I going to do about it? That's the question asked when we run out of options to support our opinion. My posts are directed toward what I perceive as weaknesses on the team. So far, we have not upgraded any of our defensive positions of weakness from last year. We're heavily relying on now-2nd year players (K. Williams, Ellison, and McCargo) and a former backup (K. Thomas) to be the answer. That's wishful thinking. Offense I think will be better because we made a significant addition or two on the line. Who do I think will win the Super Bowl? The team that can plan for the future and still upgrade enough from season to season. And we're only meeting the first half of that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I think they're partially lying about their willingness to go with RB by committee. As others have stated, I believe that Marv wants to build a dominating ground attack and I just don't see him being satisfied putting average RBs behind such an expensive OL. They'll go with average RBs if they have to, but it'll only be a short term, 1 year stopgap. The 2nd area is at WR. I think they're totally full of BS on this one. I believe they'll probably take one on the first day and that it may even be a suprise candidate for the 12th pick. They desperately need another consistent, reliable, high quality threat on offense and while RB would seem more obvious at 12, if they don't like Lynch and Peterson, their attention may turn to WR to fill that need. Dwayne Bowe and Robert Meachem would be the likely targets if they did so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I think they're partially lying about their willingness to go with RB by committee. As others have stated, I believe that Marv wants to build a dominating ground attack and I just don't see him being satisfied putting average RBs behind such an expensive OL. They'll go with average RBs if they have to, but it'll only be a short term, 1 year stopgap. The 2nd area is at WR. I think they're totally full of BS on this one. I believe they'll probably take one on the first day and that it may even be a suprise candidate for the 12th pick. They desperately need another consistent, reliable, high quality threat on offense and while RB would seem more obvious at 12, if they don't like Lynch and Peterson, their attention may turn to WR to fill that need. Dwayne Bowe and Robert Meachem would be the likely targets if they did so. WRs may be the most value on the board if an injured Lynch is available but Okoye, Willis and the other likely candidates are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 WRs may be the most value on the board if an injured Lynch is available but Okoye, Willis and the other likely candidates are gone. I agree. Speaking of Lynch, after doing a little more research on the issue, I think the reports of a back injury may have mistakenly confused him with his Cal teammate, Daymeion Hughes. Hughes suffered a back injury at the Senior Bowl (although reports are conflicting here as well; a few say it was a hamstring) and, of course, had a very disappointing combine performance. That's just speculation on my part, admittedly, but the longer this goes without picking up any steam, the more I think its an erroneous report. Considering that he's a potential top 15 pick, it should have spread all over the internet in the last couple of days. It hasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Git'er Done Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 What am I going to do about it? That's the question asked when we run out of options to support our opinion. My posts are directed toward what I perceive as weaknesses on the team. So far, we have not upgraded any of our defensive positions of weakness from last year. We're heavily relying on now-2nd year players (K. Williams, Ellison, and McCargo) and a former backup (K. Thomas) to be the answer. That's wishful thinking. Offense I think will be better because we made a significant addition or two on the line. Who do I think will win the Super Bowl? The team that can plan for the future and still upgrade enough from season to season. And we're only meeting the first half of that statement. My point is you have to let things play out, there is nothing else to do, you have to give the new "regime" a reasonable amount of time to get things in order. I expect them to fill some the holes with guys that will be cut, kinda like Spikes, a guy who maybe past his prime and too makes too much money. I expect them to make the playoffs. The reason I want to know what team you think will win the Super Bowl is that I want to check that team's boards out and see how it's fans are bitching and moaning like the sky is falling. Every team has problem areas at coaching, management and/ or player levels. The BIlls are on the right path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Git'er Done Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 If they are "lying" about something I would say it is that Fred Jackson is a serious consideration at RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 My point is you have to let things play out, there is nothing else to do, you have to give the new "regime" a reasonable amount of time to get things in order. I expect them to fill some the holes with guys that will be cut, kinda like Spikes, a guy who maybe past his prime and too makes too much money.I expect them to make the playoffs. The reason I want to know what team you think will win the Super Bowl is that I want to check that team's boards out and see how it's fans are bitching and moaning like the sky is falling. Every team has problem areas at coaching, management and/ or player levels. The BIlls are on the right path. Just as you want me to expect a reasonable amount of time for the Bills to develop, I need a reasonable amount of time to make Super Bowl predictions. That's too far off at this point. Indy, SD, NE certainly appear the front-runners in the AFC. The NFC is a little less clear, CHI still has excellent talent, but PHI and NO will be there with them. If Spikes is let go, I need to know it was for salary cap reasons. Just saying the guy isn't performing is an insult to my intelligence. The guy looked to be coming on last season and the key question here is: Do we have an alternative to Spikes? Or is there a guy on the free agent market who can play to position like a veteran with talent? The answer is no, not at this point. You're not going to get a Merriman in the draft most likely and without a veteran with talent, you're turning the reigns at WLB over to a 2nd year former 6th round pick, the MLB most likely to a converted OLB, and then whomever they draft at SLB. That's playing with fire. The Bills aren't on the right path if we get into the endless cycle of simply looking to the draft and rookies each season to replace veterans. I've said it before that I completely understand letting NC and LFB go. But you don't put rookies in their place or career backups and expect me to say nothing is wrong. And again, I think I have the right to voice concern because this team is 0-7 in making the playoffs the last 7 years. Of course Marv wasn't here, but then they'd better understand most fans want to win. Just telling me to patient isn't something I'm going to buy. They've got to win now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Git'er Done Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Just as you want me to expect a reasonable amount of time for the Bills to develop, I need a reasonable amount of time to make Super Bowl predictions. That's too far off at this point. Indy, SD, NE certainly appear the front-runners in the AFC. The NFC is a little less clear, CHI still has excellent talent, but PHI and NO will be there with them. If Spikes is let go, I need to know it was for salary cap reasons. Just saying the guy isn't performing is an insult to my intelligence. The guy looked to be coming on last season and the key question here is: Do we have an alternative to Spikes? Or is there a guy on the free agent market who can play to position like a veteran with talent? The answer is no, not at this point. You're not going to get a Merriman in the draft most likely and without a veteran with talent, you're turning the reigns at WLB over to a 2nd year former 6th round pick, the MLB most likely to a converted OLB, and then whomever they draft at SLB. That's playing with fire. The Bills aren't on the right path if we get into the endless cycle of simply looking to the draft and rookies each season to replace veterans. I've said it before that I completely understand letting NC and LFB go. But you don't put rookies in their place or career backups and expect me to say nothing is wrong. And again, I think I have the right to voice concern because this team is 0-7 in making the playoffs the last 7 years. Of course Marv wasn't here, but then they'd better understand most fans want to win. Just telling me to patient isn't something I'm going to buy. They've got to win now. I never said you had no right to voice your opinion. I just used Spikes as an example. He may have something left but I doubt it will be worth 4.5m , I think there will be some vets let go and I hope the Bills keep some money for those developments. Chicago is overrated to me, and they are losing guys, Grossman blows. They have problems, I think they have peaked. Yes there are some teams that are ahead of the Bills in their development, the Bills have to catch up. Really all the teams have weaknesses. The Bills are gonna be better than last year, I believe they will make the playoffs. The offense will be way better. It would have been better even if they hadn't changed a player because Losman is gonna know the offense better, Fairchild will have more options, more audibles at the line for instance. The offense should be real good. The guys are gonna have more experience. Spikes didn't do much last season, there won't be worse play at that position. I expect them to pick up a veteran linebacker that has been cut, and they will be fine. After this next season I think they will be a more desirable place for free agents. I think if they make the playoffs, Ralph will open up the wallet and spend above the cap, but they have to make the playoffs first. Were I an owner, I would certainly wait until the team had a strong, young core before I payed out big for free agents. We shall see, I am through bickering with you, I have already posted all these opinions in prior posts. Believe what you will, we shall wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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