LB thread.....For Defensive Geniuses

[Gotta Dream]

What is more important? AN aggressive, athletic LB like Urlacher or a lockdown CB like ....???.... I can't even think of one at the moment. Seems that the front line and LB corps are supposed to put so much pressure on the QB, that the CB job is just not to get beat deep. So, who is the most athletic LB out there?

 

Safety is a very important position in this defense, we got ours last year. Marv spent a high pick on DT last year. Seems like this year ML needs to pick his athletic LB this year, to complete his defense.

 

Comments?

[JStranger76]

I think the Dline is more important than either. I don't know who the missing LB is but I would load up on the Dline one more draft and maybe go LB next year. I'm cool with Spikes, Crowell, and Ellison (if Spikes stays). I definitley don't want to go LB or CB at #12, but would be fine with either in a trade down or 2nd pick. Looks like DT or now RB with the first pick for me. I'd also have to consider DE if one of the top 2 guys fell to 12, and cut ties with Denny or Hargrove. You need pressure from your front 4 dudes!!!!!!!!!

[Brandon]

The MLB is probably the single most important player in a Tampa 2 defense. That player has to not only be capable of the traditional MLB role of aggressively taking on blockers and attacking the run from sideline to sideline, but must also be capable of dropping into the deep middle third of the field like a safety on passing plays. If the MLB is deficient in either area, the Tampa 2 will be vulnerable to runs or passes over the middle.

[Just an Opinion]

The Tampa 2 defense has to be strong up the middle. D tackles MLB and safties are the most important positions.

 

My opinion on why it is popular is the fact that these players are cheaper than the edge players DE and CB's. Therefor you can have more cap room for your overall team.

[gobillsinytown]

Right on the money. With "cover 2" meaning each safety gets half of the field, that's a lot of ground to cover. So the MLB has to be athletic enough to help in coverage, but most importantly smart enough to be in the right place on each play, either run or pass. That being said, I still think the basic principle of any defense is still true: It all starts up front, so what happens at the line of scrimmage is still the most important. If a defense can't control the line of scrimmage, it won't be successful no matter what scheme is used.

 

 

The MLB is probably the single most important player in a Tampa 2 defense. That player has to not only be capable of the traditional MLB role of aggressively taking on blockers and attacking the run from sideline to sideline, but must also be capable of dropping into the deep middle third of the field like a safety on passing plays. If the MLB is deficient in either area, the Tampa 2 will be vulnerable to runs or passes over the middle.

[ROCCEO]

Hes right, a dominant defensive line is mandatory for success with the cover 2.

[Gotta Dream]

Right on the money. With "cover 2" meaning each safety gets half of the field, that's a lot of ground to cover. So the MLB has to be athletic enough to help in coverage, but most importantly smart enough to be in the right place on each play, either run or pass. That being said, I still think the basic principle of any defense is still true: It all starts up front, so what happens at the line of scrimmage is still the most important. If a defense can't control the line of scrimmage, it won't be successful no matter what scheme is used.

 

So does Patrick Willis fit the bill? I've never seen him play, so I really wouldn't know. Would a big safety, converted to LB, fit the mold? How does and did Coy Wire do when he was playing LB?

[BuffBills#1]

Patrick Willis would be a dream come true for the Bills. He's fast enough to cover the middle of the field and he flows to the ball and loves to hit people.

[jarthur31]

What is more important? AN aggressive, athletic LB like Urlacher or a lockdown CB like ....???.... I can't even think of one at the moment. Seems that the front line and LB corps are supposed to put so much pressure on the QB, that the CB job is just not to get beat deep. So, who is the most athletic LB out there?

 

Safety is a very important position in this defense, we got ours last year. Marv spent a high pick on DT last year. Seems like this year ML needs to pick his athletic LB this year, to complete his defense.

 

Comments?

 

Easy, the LB's. DB's who play in this scheme play zone most of the time and not 1 on 1. The backers need to cover alot more than the secondary and have many more assignments to ponder.

[Oneonta Buffalo Fan]

Easy, the LB's. DB's who play in this scheme play zone most of the time and not 1 on 1. The backers need to cover alot more than the secondary and have many more assignments to ponder.

 

LB too.

[Pyrite Gal]

Patrick Willis would be a dream come true for the Bills. He's fast enough to cover the middle of the field and he flows to the ball and loves to hit people.

 

Not in his rookie year.

 

If the Bills draft Willis with the idea of starting him at MLB we likely will see a drop off in production compared to F-B playing this role simply because Fletch brought a decade of seeing NFL plays develop to the position, while Willis though a better natural tackler than F-B and probably able to run the field better will simply have to go through what is likely to be a painful learning process for a while.

 

This appears even more likely after watching Willis struggle in pass coverage against premier college talent in the Senior Bowl.

 

I think Willis is a very good player (he won the Butkus trophy as the best LB in college football) and likely will solidify the MLB slot for years. However, folks are simply fooling themselves if they do not think that opposing OCs will be salivating at the possibilities of facing a rookie MLB in the Tampa 2 scheme.

 

If they get his to misread a run and get him to take his first step backward then there may be a first down in the offing and if they get him to take a first step in with a speedy WR running a post pattern then it may well be seven for the other team.

 

Sliding Crowell over to MLB (his natural position he was drafted to play) as Marv talked about and then taking a player like Timmons (who is higher rated than Willis in most mock drafts) wou;d seem to make a lot more sense than picking Willis.

[In space no one can hear]

Not in his rookie year.

 

If the Bills draft Willis with the idea of starting him at MLB we likely will see a drop off in production compared to F-B playing this role simply because Fletch brought a decade of seeing NFL plays develop to the position, while Willis though a better natural tackler than F-B and probably able to run the field better will simply have to go through what is likely to be a painful learning process for a while.

 

This appears even more likely after watching Willis struggle in pass coverage against premier college talent in the Senior Bowl.

 

I think Willis is a very good player (he won the Butkus trophy as the best LB in college football) and likely will solidify the MLB slot for years. However, folks are simply fooling themselves if they do not think that opposing OCs will be salivating at the possibilities of facing a rookie MLB in the Tampa 2 scheme.

 

If they get his to misread a run and get him to take his first step backward then there may be a first down in the offing and if they get him to take a first step in with a speedy WR running a post pattern then it may well be seven for the other team.

 

Sliding Crowell over to MLB (his natural position he was drafted to play) as Marv talked about and then taking a player like Timmons (who is higher rated than Willis in most mock drafts) wou;d seem to make a lot more sense than picking Willis.

 

 

Pytite Gal you surprise me.

 

Willis is by far a superior player to your suggestion of Timmons.

 

As far as mock drafts...most of them are made by sheep.

 

I hope we at least have the option of taking Willis...his outstanding combine might have solidified a top ten status for him.

 

Timmons will probably not be picked in the top 20....and is a late first rounder.

[BuffBills#1]

Timmons? The guy isn't even in the same class as Willis. Willis is a proven contributer while Timmons is all talent with upside. I feel like Willis could come in and have the kind of impact that J. Vilma had for the Jets his rookie year. Trying to guess who Marv is going to take in the draft is so worthless though, because when it comes time for the Bills to select we'll hear a name no one thought we'de want.

[Brandon]

I don't think Patrick Willis is even going to be available for the Bills to pick at 12. He's very likely going to go 11th to San Francisco.

 

The 49ers have a need at ILB and should have the chance to select the best MLB prospect in the draft. But there's also another factor to consider. The 49ers coaching staff is in a position to know more about Patrick Willis than any other staff in the NFL. Why? They coached him for a week at the Senior Bowl and his position coach was none other than Mike Singletary, one of the best MLBs in NFL history. They should know better than anyone what kind of player he is. If they believe he's worth a pick in the top half of R1, I'd be very suprised if they pass over him.

 

Of course, it should perhaps raise a few questions if they pass over him at that slot as well.

[I 90]

There are certainly a lot of Ole Miss fans on the board these days. Lets just say that whoever Marv picks is going to be a talented athlete with upside. No slam dunks among this linebacker class.

[Dawgg]

Agree, although I think Willis will be taken ahead of Timmons. With that being said, a smart move would be to trade down to #20 or 21, pick up an extra 2nd rounder and draft Timmons.

 

Sliding Crowell over to MLB (his natural position he was drafted to play) as Marv talked about and then taking a player like Timmons (who is higher rated than Willis in most mock drafts) wou;d seem to make a lot more sense than picking Willis.

[Pyrite Gal]

Fine, Willis gets picked a head of Timmons.

 

The key factor for the Bills however is that if they pick Willis to start at MLB do folks think that this rookie will be a vet (and if so why) and do folks see that making reads as like you have been watching pro plays develop is going to be a big key for the our MLB playing in our Cover 2.

 

I also think Willis will likely start for years as MLB for the Bills, but even Willis boosters cannot be so blind that they cannot see that him learning to become a vet is simply going to involve some very likely painful mistakes.

 

In addition, it appears pretty clear judging from how all the professional who are simply paid a ton to watch this game see this as a pretty thin LB class (zero players ranked in the top 10).

 

In addition, there have been few submissions describing how the Bills are going to deal with defensive signal calling with the MLB being a rookie and both safeties being second year players.

 

The implications of drafting Willis even though i agree he is among the best if not the best LB in this draft seem to be a clear indicator that 2007 is seen by the Bills hierarchy as yet another development year with little chance for the playoffs,

[LynchMob23]

LB - while the CB must have enough FBI (Football Intelligence) to read the "keys" (say the second receiver (TE) or in the case of the the LB the running back or a pulling lineman) and then play either the flat or the receiver going deep, the linebackers get everything going over the middle, intermediate and long.

 

In fact, for those that want to see what they mean when they refer to the keys for the cb, Here are a few examples in Powerpoint format

 

And Pyrite, while you are correct in that having Willis on the team may be a detriment should he play MLB, some players come into the NFL ready to take on such a task. For example, Vilma in his rookie season from Training Camp on called the defense for the cover 2 the Jets ran under Edwards. However, should he not be up to the task, he is versatile enough to play all three LB positions. So we could live with Crowell at Mike for a few games while we wait for Willis' development.

 

Last year, Donte was also allowed to make defensive adjustments (most notably, having someone cover Watson I believe in the first game) so while he's a 2nd year player, he's not incapable of making the calls.

 

Just didn't want the idea of Willis (a great player, along with Timmons, Beason, Siler and co.) to be seen as a step back.

[Pyrite Gal]

Just didn't want the idea of Willis (a great player, along with Timmons, Beason, Siler and co.) to be seen as a step back.

 

It will be interesting on the question of taking a step back with Willis as it will go directly to comparing his play to what F-B produced.

 

If we should happen to take Willis, then the expectations in terms of statistical achievements (an indicator though far from a conclusive statement of his play) is that like Fletch he will lead LBs in the league in INTs (and the team as well), lead the team in tackles to his credit (with about a 2:1 majority being solo) and also produce sacks at a noticeable level.

 

As a Bills' worshipper I will be rooting for Willis to do well like anyone else. However, I will not create the expectation that others seem quite willing to make in their advocacy of Willis as the answer to all complaints that we will see him achieve these numbers reflecting a level of play at even F-B levels.

 

Will you judge Willis as being a step back unless he does lead the LBs in the league and the team in INTS? Do you expect him to produce 2 touchdowns for the team as F-B did? Do you also expect him to so master the D that he will be able to call signals and make adjustments at a level where he can be counted upon to tell Crowell, TKO (assuming he is here). Schobel, et al. what to do and where to play? And overall do you expect him to do all this (or at least make a credible case that he has replaced F-B equally and in fact better even if he does not produce the indicative #s) and also to achieve what Marv said and be an attacking LB?

 

Yeah right.

 

It all seems set up to me for this rookie to be a step back at least initially for the Bills if he is our starter rather than a recovered Crowell at MLB.

 

If folks want to simply site his play in college an say he is so good that we will not take a step back, the most recent indcator was him struggling and getting burned for a couple of big passes at the Senior Bowl.

 

Even if one buys into the concept that yes a rookie can master all of this, there seems to be no rational indicator and only typical fan statements that he is great that bolster the concept that he is even going to be an equal performer to F-B.

 

When one adds to that the sense of I and also others that a lot of the run performance starts with substandard DT play and we would improve alot if a player like Okoye or Branch plugged the trenches, or the demands of many posters that we find a replacement for NC (folks like Badol clearly site his loss as a key missing link for the Bills before they mention MLB) or the loud calls for us to pick Lynch or trade up for Peterson, it seems pretty doubtful that we will even go with Willis or that if we do we will not see some fairly clear indicators of a step back.

[obie_wan]

Not in his rookie year.

 

If the Bills draft Willis with the idea of starting him at MLB we likely will see a drop off in production compared to F-B playing this role simply because Fletch brought a decade of seeing NFL plays develop to the position, while Willis though a better natural tackler than F-B and probably able to run the field better will simply have to go through what is likely to be a painful learning process for a while.

 

This appears even more likely after watching Willis struggle in pass coverage against premier college talent in the Senior Bowl.

 

I think Willis is a very good player (he won the Butkus trophy as the best LB in college football) and likely will solidify the MLB slot for years. However, folks are simply fooling themselves if they do not think that opposing OCs will be salivating at the possibilities of facing a rookie MLB in the Tampa 2 scheme.

 

If they get his to misread a run and get him to take his first step backward then there may be a first down in the offing and if they get him to take a first step in with a speedy WR running a post pattern then it may well be seven for the other team.

 

Sliding Crowell over to MLB (his natural position he was drafted to play) as Marv talked about and then taking a player like Timmons (who is higher rated than Willis in most mock drafts) wou;d seem to make a lot more sense than picking Willis.

 

 

Despite the impossibility of starting a rookie at MLB, I believe the Bears drafted Urlacher as a safety, changed his position to MLB and started him in the cover- 2 in his rookie year.

 

Pure blasphemy

 

You obtain your studs in the draft.

 

If Willis is a stud in the making, they draft him with the intent to start him. If he can't hack MLB as a rookie (which I doubt), they start him at Spikes spot.

[The Dean]

Whatever we do at MLB, I think we will miss London this year. IMO, he's the biggest loss for the Bills this offseason. He called the plays, set the tempo and made the tackles.

 

I can live with losing Nate...too much $$ for the Bills. I think the Wills trade will help the Bills. I just think we could have re-signed Fletcher for the $$ he got in DC.

 

But...I'm trusting in Marv.

[obie_wan]

Whatever we do at MLB, I think we will miss London this year. IMO, he's the biggest loss for the Bills this offseason. He called the plays, set the tempo and made the tackles.

 

I can live with losing Nate...too much $$ for the Bills. I think the Wills trade will help the Bills. I just think we could have re-signed Fletcher for the $$ he got in DC.

 

But...I'm trusting in Marv.

 

sure we could have re-signed him.

 

and we would have another year of poor run support from the MLB.

 

we will get better run support for less money without him.

[The Dean]

sure we could have re-signed him.

 

and we would have another year of poor run support from the MLB.

 

we will get better run support for less money without him.

 

 

I assume you mean run stopping support. The best way to stop the run is to make the tackle. Despite injuries London was #3 in the NFL in tackles last year:

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sortableStats...;dir=descending

 

Yeah, that will be easy to replace.

 

The perceived weakness of London by some is foolish, IMO. As the Bills did not have the huge DTs, he regularly took on big O Lineman and STILL made the tackles. Fletch was relentless in pursuit and almost always around the ball.

[ndirish1978]

Mock drafts are NOT made on a thoughtful consideration of ateams need. They look at a list of defensive positions that need to be filled, look at the list for prospects and match the highest rated need with the highest rated player. For positions like DT that doesnt make sense because of the difference between the 2 kinds of DTs. I tihnk Brankch would be a good fit for us while Okoye might not be. People don't look at the system you play in as much as the "rankings"

[Gotta Dream]

Despite the impossibility of starting a rookie at MLB, I believe the Bears drafted Urlacher as a safety, changed his position to MLB and started him in the cover- 2 in his rookie year.

 

Pure blasphemy

 

You obtain your studs in the draft.

 

If Willis is a stud in the making, they draft him with the intent to start him. If he can't hack MLB as a rookie (which I doubt), they start him at Spikes spot.

 

That's what I thought. Urlacher was just an athletic freak, turned LB. How did Coy Wire do at the end of the season? I'm hoping his athletic abilities can make him fit in nicely while we wait for a LB to mature. London was a great tackler and leader while he was here. But he was not an attacker - more of a defensive LB. In other words, he would wait and react, instead of attack and react.

[JinWPB]

I have to agree with Pyrite Gal .

We have to Billieve that if Crowell whom is a very good mlb get all the reps at #1 this preseason, is teamed with a hopefully 90% TKO and the likes of Timmons (which some mocks have going before Willis) we well have an improved corp over last year.