MrLocke Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Assuming the Bills stay at #12 this player will get a pretty good salary. I'm just wondering if it is cap to cash with free agents and draft picks combined or if it cash to cap plus this years draft picks. Sorry if this is in another forum. What was the rookie cap for the team picking twelve last year and how much will it go up by? thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLuca1967 Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Assuming the Bills stay at #12 this player will get a pretty good salary. I'm just wondering if it is cap to cash with free agents and draft picks combined or if it cash to cap plus this years draft picks. Sorry if this is in another forum. What was the rookie cap for the team picking twelve last year and how much will it go up by? thanks. Did you have to bring up the #12 pick of last year? It was Haloti Ngata. He signed for $14 million over 5 years. According to the Bills new accounting system you have to figure about a 10% increase so a little over $15 million. Which should eat up half of the Bills 'Cash to the Cap'. Of course this is just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Assuming the Bills stay at #12 this player will get a pretty good salary. I'm just wondering if it is cap to cash with free agents and draft picks combined or if it cash to cap plus this years draft picks. Sorry if this is in another forum. What was the rookie cap for the team picking twelve last year and how much will it go up by? thanks. I do not think the rookie cap numbers are set yet as it is unclear how many draftees a team will actually need to sign. Cap to cash seems to refer to the entire salary cap for a team so this includes the part of that total cap which is set aside by the league for signing rookies. Specifically the rookie total is an enforceable rule set by the NFL by agreement under the CBA which assures that a team will not rob the vets to pay the rookies. However, the cap to cash # is not a league wide rule but is a choice made by an individual team about how they are gonna do their own accounting. The Bills and Ralph have decided to meet the cap rule by deciding to spend their money and account for it based on their real world outlays that year and have decided not to exceed the total cap amount (appx. $109 million dollars for this season) of outlays for this year. The Bills could actually achieve the cap to cash standard they are using for their own accounting and actually still also be in violation of the CBA requirement that teams must spend at least 85% of the cap total in a given year. Under the salary cap if a team pays out a bonus to a player, it actually is amortized over the life of the contract, Thus, lets say hypothetically that the Bills agree to a 4 year extension of MCs contract and give him a $16 million bonus (again this is hypothetical and my guess is the market will give NC very different numbers than these I chose for convenient math). Nate's actual cap hit for a given year will be the actual base salary paid him in a given year plus $4 million as the bonus is amortized over the length of the contract. Typically, contracts will be backloaded with a large base salary in the final year which in reality simply forces the team and the player to agree to a new deal or simply choose to cut the player rather than pay him an exorbitant final year salary. Thus a player like Champ Bailey may agree to a $60 million dollar contract but all he really sees is the huge bonus (which gets prorated over each year of the deal even though he gets all this money up front) plus a base salary each year which can be as small as the NFL vet minimum (and often is so that the team has more money to spend on building a team). A team may meet their cash to cap goals as they count the $16 million bonus paid to as part of the cash outlay goal of laying out no more than $109 million. However, if the team has enough long term deals where bonus money is actually pro-rated, they need to exercise care so that their actual cap hit for the year does not drop below the 85% mandated by the CBA (again for example the actual cash to cap outlay of the team for NC that season is the $16 million plus his annual salary that year, however their actual cap number is only diminished by $4 million plus his annual salary). This is the extreme case but one can see that it does not take too many deals such as this where a team may meet its self-chosen cash to cap standards but because $12 million of the Nate bonus does not even count against the cap they need to make sure they are in fact paying out 85% of the total cap number to the players each year ($92.65 million) in salaries to the players each year or they are in violation of the CBA. This issue can be easily avoided if the team chooses to do what MN did with Antoine Winfield and not pay him a bonus but give him all the money up front as base salary, In this case the entire $16 million outlay plus base salary would not only be their cash to cap allocation but as base salary is not pro-rated this entire amount counts against the cap. However, the team will be required the next season to once again get to 85% of the cap in salary expenditures and will ladle the money out the door in the appropriate way to meet this requirement. In the end, as the market adjusts to pay higher salaries as by agreement the players are entitled to 60.5% of the total gross income teams will run right up against the cap as they compete in the marketplace to buy the best talent. The cash to cap language simply describes a method a team chooses to do its accounting and management and it really is a different thing from the total salary cap number or the rookie pool within than cap number. Thanks for sitting through this recitation which I am making merely to remain facile in thinking and talking about the salary cap (within my family I am considered the familial source for cap info when these issues come up when we talk Bills stuff, though interestingly to me as we gathered for dinner before the latest play at Studio Arena- a nice rendition of Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men BTW- we talked salary cap a little bit when the conversation turned to a Sabres discussion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Did you have to bring up the #12 pick of last year? It was Haloti Ngata. He signed for $14 million over 5 years. According to the Bills new accounting system you have to figure about a 10% increase so a little over $15 million. Which should eat up half of the Bills 'Cash to the Cap'. Of course this is just my opinion. Which, as always, is wrong. Ngata signed a contract for 11.9 mil that could be worth as much as 14 mil. He got surprisingly little money in cash when he signed, as for some reason the first year he got a roster bonus of 1.6 mil and the second year, this year, 2007, he gets a guaranteed roster bonus of 6+ million. Which wouldn't count in the Bills "cash to the cap" policy (if only because they wouldn't do it this way). Cash means cash this year. http://ravens.scout.com/2/550951.html By the way, could you please do me a huge favor? Please post which teams you think will cover the spread every game next year? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Assuming the Bills stay at #12 this player will get a pretty good salary. I'm just wondering if it is cap to cash with free agents and draft picks combined or if it cash to cap plus this years draft picks. Sorry if this is in another forum. What was the rookie cap for the team picking twelve last year and how much will it go up by? thanks. According to Mark Gaughan of the Buffalo News, the number already accounts for the Bills' draft picks but not the RFAs they intend to tender: "A Bills source said Friday the team has about $30 million in cap space, counting the money they will pay their 2007 draft choices. The cap is $109 million. The Bills probably will spend about $3.5 million on offers to restricted free agents. That puts them at about $26.5 million in space." http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20070...?tbd1013430.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLuca1967 Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Which, as always, is wrong. Ngata signed a contract for 11.9 mil that could be worth as much as 14 mil. He got surprisingly little money in cash when he signed, as for some reason the first year he got a roster bonus of 1.6 mil and the second year, this year, 2007, he gets a guaranteed roster bonus of 6+ million. Which wouldn't count in the Bills "cash to the cap" policy (if only because they wouldn't do it this way). Cash means cash this year. http://ravens.scout.com/2/550951.html By the way, could you please do me a huge favor? Please post which teams you think will cover the spread every game next year? Thanks in advance. Actually I'm dead on. I wouldn't expect whoever the Bills to draft at #12 twelve to accept roster bonuses instead of a signing bonus. Ngata's agent screwed him over. The Bills can't count on being so lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Actually I'm dead on. I wouldn't expect whoever the Bills to draft at #12 twelve to accept roster bonuses instead of a signing bonus. Ngata's agent screwed him over. The Bills can't count on being so lucky. So by saying that the Bills #12 player will sign a contract like Ngata signed, being shown the contract that Ngata signed, and then admitting that the Bills player won't sign a contract anything like Ngata signed, you're "dead on"? Thems some good thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLuca1967 Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 So by saying that the Bills #12 player will sign a contract like Ngata signed and then admitting that the Bills player won't sign a contract anything like Ngata signed you're "dead on"? Thems some good thinks. Value yes. Structure is off no importance to the conversation. Negotiation's for draft picks usually are a combination of what was paid the year before and what the picks that sandwich the #12 pick sign for. The $14- $15 million was an estimate based on the numbers before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Value yes. Structure is off no importance to the conversation. Negotiation's for draft picks usually are a combination of what was paid the year before and what the picks that sandwich the #12 pick sign for. The $14- $15 million was an estimate based on the numbers before. But the cash to cap figures the Bills use count the bonus and the salary for this year only, not the total package of the deal. You're applying 15 million when the actual figure will be closer to half that. His signing or roster bonus and first year salary. And structure is a huge part of the conversation because when the Bills pay the cash is what the "cash to the cap" deal is all about. If the cash is next year, it's next year's cash to the cap. So you're wrong twice, as always. So could you please just post who you think is going to win each week, I'd like to buy a new house next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLuca1967 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 But the cash to cap figures the Bills use count the bonus and the salary for this year only, not the total package of the deal. You're applying 15 million when the actual figure will be closer to half that. His signing or roster bonus and first year salary. And structure is a huge part of the conversation because when the Bills pay the cash is what the "cash to the cap" deal is all about. If the cash is next year, it's next year's cash to the cap. So you're wrong twice, as always. So could you please just post who you think is going to win each week, I'd like to buy a new house next year. Why are you trying tell me stuff I already know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Why are you trying tell me stuff I already know? SDS, can we pin this thread? It's amazing. Even by well established and documented tard standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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