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Why Do People Think The Patriots Will Always Fade?

Buffalo Baumer

By Buffalo Baumer
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Prognastic Practice Squad

Prognastic

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Ah the eternal cry of the hopeless hanging on every possibility no matter how minute that the team that has OWNED them and the divsion for years might finally be slipping and that it might be their turn to sip from the golden chalice.

 

 

Keep dreaming, rumors of the Patriots imminent demise have been greatly exaggerated. (Mostly by you)

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ganesh All Pro

ganesh

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Why would the Patriots trade him?

 

Chill out man...you are getting too serious....Brady is not going anywhere.....

 

When it was rumored that Belichek is setting himself to go to NY in 2008, it is a bills fantasy for him to take Brady along with him to NY so that he is out of the AFC East.....

 

BTW, just for kicks if the Pats are offered 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder to get Brady, may be the Pats will take it.... :ph34r:

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Hollywood Donahoe Veteran

Hollywood Donahoe

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Chill out man...you are getting too serious....Brady is not going anywhere.....

 

When it was rumored that Belichek is setting himself to go to NY in 2008, it is a bills fantasy for him to take Brady along with him to NY so that he is out of the AFC East.....

You gave no indication that you were being anything other than serious. If you'd thrown a smilie or something in there, I'd have responded differently.

 

BTW, just for kicks if the Pats are offered 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder to get Brady, may be the Pats will take it.... :ph34r:

There ya go...now that's proper smilie use. :wallbash: :wallbash:

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MadBuffaloDisease All Pro

MadBuffaloDisease

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Not in 07, but wait until 08. I believe that Belichick will be head coach of the Giants in 08, the deal that was set up by the meeting between Belichick and the Giants, and the meeting between Paoli and the Giants. Belichick has wanted to be HC of the Giants since he was assistant there, and I hear that Belichick's future fiancee works for the Giant's front office. This is all hearsay, but from some good sources.

Interesting coincidence:

 

Patriots | Owner hopes Belichick is part of team's future

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 08:07:49 -0800

 

Mike Reiss and Ron Borges, of the Boston Globe, report New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft says he hopes head coach Bill Belichick, who is believed to be signed through next season with a team option for 2008, remains part of the organization's future. "Well, I hope so. You can't win without great players, and I don't think great players can win without a great coaching staff. We're privileged to have both," Kraft said.

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Prognastic Practice Squad

Prognastic

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LOL! It always ends eventually. See the Cowboys of the mid-90's. Same rhetoric from their fans.

 

And a major problem for the Pats is their track record of treating their players. The latest stuff by Ted Johnson doesn't help.

 

Of course, what goes up must come down eventually right? Thats about the only thing you can hang your hat on. The Ted Johnson stuff is mostly media driven. No one has questioned a single word of it? Funny how you believe the media when it suits your purposes.

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MadBuffaloDisease All Pro

MadBuffaloDisease

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Keep on fantasizing that things will remain as they are, Prognastic. We've heard it a million times. Hell, we were guilty of it in the early-mid 90's.

 

"All is well!"

 

As for believing the media, the media didn't make Ted Johnson make those claims against Belichick and co. They merely reported what he said. And again it's another thing for prospective FA's to look at, taken with their history of underpaying/respecting their players, and say "maybe not."

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Hollywood Donahoe Veteran

Hollywood Donahoe

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Keep on fantasizing...

Fantasizing? Given your now-disproven predictions of doom the last few years, you seem to be the one who's been fantasizing.

 

The Patriots have not yet altered the habits and tendencies that have led them to six consecutive winning seasons, as well as five AFC East titles and the three Super Bowl titles during that span. If the tendencies have not changed, than why should the results?

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JAMIEBUF12 Veteran

JAMIEBUF12

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well i always hope they will fade lol lol realistically they will not untill tom brady is retired from football.it is very hard to replace the great quarterbacks.just go ask the dolphins(dan marino) us(jim kelly)denver(john elway)niners(joe montana/steve young).when you get used to having a great quarterback you kinda get spoiled and take it for granted that you will always be winning and playoff bound.but i bet when tom brady is done playing football the patsies will have a 4 or 5 yers down period.go bills in"07

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MadBuffaloDisease All Pro

MadBuffaloDisease

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HD: My "predictions of doom" were regarding their chances of winning the SB again. So far I've been right the past 2 years; although admittedly it WAS close this year, what with Marty proving that he's nothing more than a great regular season coach and a playoff choker, and with the Pats building an 18-point lead against the Colts, only to suffer the biggest collpase in championship game history.

 

As I said, this off-season will tell a lot about the Pats. Will they open the checkbooks? Because if they don't, sure they might win the division again next year, but they won't win the SB.

 

And as it's looking, Belichick leaving after the 2007 season is a very distinct possibility. The Giants kept Coughlin, against the desires of their players and fans, for the upcoming season. Belichick can void the final year of his Pats contract (2008). Hmmmmm.

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ATBNG RFA

ATBNG

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Keep on fantasizing that things will remain as they are, Prognastic. We've heard it a million times. Hell, we were guilty of it in the early-mid 90's.

 

"All is well!"

 

You've been fantasizing about their decline for at least half the six year run. There are, of course, never any substantive reasons given by you when it comes to your (mis)analyzing the Pats.

 

All is well in Patriot land besides the bitter fact that they're not playing today. They're 30 million under the cap. They probably have the most talented defensive line in the league and they're all under 30. They have a young but effective offensive line that they're not spending umpteen dollars on. They have two first round picks next year. Their best two players are under contract through the rest of the decade.

 

You just throw out stuff like "it's all got to end sometime." It really doesn't. If you manage your finances well, draft and acquire good players for your system and coach and game plan effectively, you can be competitive every year. It isn't random like a roulette wheel.

 

The Dallas comparison is not very good either. The architect of Dallas's rise (Johnson) left the team; Belichick is still in place. They also implemented the salary cap during Dallas's run, which prevented them from keeping a lot of their players. The Patriots (Belichick) have shown that they understand how to manage a budget in the salary cap era as well as any team, and the rules aren't changing anytime soon.

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ATBNG RFA

ATBNG

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And as it's looking, Belichick leaving after the 2007 season is a very distinct possibility. The Giants kept Coughlin, against the desires of their players and fans, for the upcoming season. Belichick can void the final year of his Pats contract (2008). Hmmmmm.

 

:ph34r: You just posted the news item which said that Belichick currently has a contract with a team option for 2008. Belichick can't void his contract in 2008 if that is an accurate report; the team can.

 

Here's Belichick's own words, when asked about how he felt about the organization last week after the Indy loss.

 

"I like the people I'm working with, I like the situation I'm in," Belichick said. "First of all, it starts at the top. Mr. Kraft and his family have been tremendously supportive, giving us great support and facilities and everything that they can give to make a team competitive. I don't sit here and say, 'If we had this or had that, it would make a difference.' We pretty much have everything we need, the ability to use resources. That's No. 1 right there.

 

When you have those things, it's hard not to feel good about what you're doing, and it's not hard to keep doing it. I love football and I love the area. The players, the organization, the support we get. I have a great relationship with the two [people]most important to me, Mr. Kraft and [vice president of player personnel] Scott Pioli. I think all the way around, all three of us have a good relationship with each other, very workable, respectfully and complementary. It starts there."

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Hollywood Donahoe Veteran

Hollywood Donahoe

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HD: My "predictions of doom" were regarding their chances of winning the SB again...admittedly it WAS close this year...

That's the point. The Patriots were clearly a Super Bowl-caliber team this year, even though they fell just short. Anybody can pick a single team and say that they won't win the Super Bowl any time soon - and they'll likely be right. Your doom-and-gloom indicated that the Pats wouldn't even contend for titles anymore, and you were wrong.

 

As I said, this off-season will tell a lot about the Pats. Will they open the checkbooks? Because if they don't, sure they might win the division again next year, but they won't win the SB.

:wallbash:

 

Ah yes, the Patriots have always been reliant on big spending in the FA market to win Super Bowls. :ph34r:

 

Where do you come up with this crap?

 

And as it's looking, Belichick leaving after the 2007 season is a very distinct possibility. The Giants kept Coughlin, against the desires of their players and fans, for the upcoming season. Belichick can void the final year of his Pats contract (2008).

It should be interesting to see what happens. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that Belichick realizes how good a thing he's got going in Foxboro.

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MadBuffaloDisease All Pro

MadBuffaloDisease

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Ooops, missed the "team option" part, which makes no sense. Why would Belichick allow for a team option and not a personal one? It's not like he couldn't find work elsewhere.

 

And yes HD, the Pats won SB's without expensive players in the past. So you're expecting them to win one next year without signing anyone of importance? I mean, it's not like the guys they DID sign helped them win SB's the past 2 years. Say they lost Samuel and Graham, cut Dillon, Troy Brown retires, all of which are very real possibilities, without replacing them with players at least as good. You still as confident that they're a SB team?

 

Wait, what am I saying!

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Hollywood Donahoe Veteran

Hollywood Donahoe

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And yes HD, the Pats won SB's without expensive players in the past.

Quite right. Indeed, it has been their modus operandi during the Belichick era. For six years, they have drafted well, signed smart, inexpensive players who fit their system, and let other teams kill their caps in the high-priced FA market. They've been the best team in the NFL during that span.

 

So you're expecting them to win one next year without signing anyone of importance?

I never expect the Patriots to win the Super Bowl. Mathematically, there's always a far better chance that one of the other 31 teams will win it. That said, I do expect them to contend for a Super Bowl next year, and every year until they begin to feel the effects of Brady, Belichick, or Pioli leaving, should one of them eventually seek new employment.

 

I mean, it's not like the guys they DID sign helped them win SB's the past 2 years.

The guys they signed helped them contend for Super Bowls the past two years.

 

Say they lost Samuel and Graham, cut Dillon, Troy Brown retires, all of which are very real possibilities, without replacing them with players at least as good. You still as confident that they're a SB team?

First, the Pats are too smart to not franchise Samuel, meaning he stays or the Pats get a day one pick back for him.

 

Graham could go, and his loss would hurt, but the Pats aren't exactly thin at TE.

 

Dillon costs more to cut than he does to keep. No chance of him going anywhere.

 

Brown's versatility and leadership will be missed whenever he moves on, but his production at WR is easily replaceable.

 

Anyway, to get to the point, you're assuming that the only way to replace these guys, should they leave, is to dip into the high-priced FA market. This type of assumption is always foolish, but is even more so in the case of the Patriots. We're talking about a team that lost Deion Branch and David Givens, replaced them with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney, and improved significantly.

 

The Patriots have one of the smartest FOs in the league, and because of that, every player is replaceable (excluding, in all probability, Brady), and not necessarily with a marquee name.

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MadBuffaloDisease All Pro

MadBuffaloDisease

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I'm not saying "high-priced" FA market, I'm saying more than just a street FA.

 

And I'm skeptical of the Pats franchising Samuel, much less trading him for a pick given the average salary (and this starting point) for a franchised CB is around $8M (a year), and then you add a high draft pick on top of that. Whereas a guy like Clements is an UFA.

 

But like I said, this off-season will reveal a lot.

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Hollywood Donahoe Veteran

Hollywood Donahoe

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I'm not saying "high-priced" FA market, I'm saying more than just a street FA.

Well, the Patriots have historically been quite active in free agency, but have avoided players whose salary will outweigh their value.

 

And I'm skeptical of the Pats franchising Samuel, much less trading him for a pick given the average salary (and this starting point) for a franchised CB is around $8M (a year), and then you add a high draft pick on top of that. Whereas a guy like Clements is an UFA.

I'll consider him franchised and traded, then.

 

But like I said, this off-season will reveal a lot.

I just got déjà vu.

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Orton's Arm Veteran

Orton's Arm

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If you're solid at QB, OL, and DL, you have the chance to win every week. The Patriots are very strong and relatively young in all three areas. With their cap room and their reputation for winning, they are an attractive destination for free agents. Add to that their high quality of coaching and all those draft picks, and the Patriots have as good a chance as anyone of winning next year's Super Bowl.

 

We don't have to like it. But we can't blind ourselves to reality either. The fact of the matter is, there's an 800 pound gorilla living next door to the Bills. I hear people talk about how the gorilla may stop exercising well, or eating well, or whatever. But it's still an 800 pound gorilla.

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