Dibs Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 This was my take on it: 1.) The kid is an idiot and had no idea how to handle himself in that situation. 2.) Those cops are overzealous !@#$s. They've got plenty of police there and should have easily been able to overpower him without tasering him 30,000 times. 840391[/snapback] Bingo 1 And the reason none of this matters is because he could have been screaming racist remarks to the cops for all I care...that does not permit excessive force. And tasering a goofy college student who is cuffed IS excessive force, IMO. Even if he is an @sshole. 840817[/snapback] Bingo 2 Why is everything always black & white to most people when the reality in most situations is a blend of grey? The kid was obviously a moron who has no sympathy from me what-so-ever. The police were obviously using excessive force once they had him handcuffed. These two statements are not mutually exclusive. The important difference is the police are supposedly trained to handle these sorts of situations where as the kid is just a dumb-ass. I expect dumb-asses to do dumb-ass things......I don't expect the police to taser people after they have been subdued & handcuffed. It's really very simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 And what happens when the 'acceptable punishment' is refused? This asswipe had ample opportunity to leave the library peacefully and instead chose to ignore the orders and make a scene. How else do you remove someone who refuses to budge? Why should the officers be forced to put themselves in harm's way by physically subduing him? Why risk creating further injury to the asswipe or other bystanders by having an unpredictable physical altercation? Isn't this the reason cops are giving tasers, pepper spray and the like? To avoid physical interaction? 840853[/snapback] But they tased him after they had handcuffed him. How does that work when you are dealing with a moron? ZZZZZAP handcuffs go on "Get up sir." "NO." ZZZZZAP "Get up sir." "NO." ZZZZZAP "Get up sir." "NO." ZZZZZAP "Get up sir." "NO." ZZZZZAP "Get up sir." "NO." ZZZZZAP "Get up sir." "NO." ZZZZZAP "Get up sir." "NO." How about two officers grabbing him under the armpits & dragging him to the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 It's something to think about, at what point would it be necessary to act in self-defense against the police/gov't. I wouldn't say that we're at "V for Vendetta", but it's closer than you think. The laws allowing this, allowing that, trickle down from the federal level such that paramilitary organizations are emboldened to do as they want. And then, the tone they set is ingrained in the entire population; to wit, small-scale crime is actually down, but violent crime (rape, murder, etc) has increased exponentially in this country --- by 400% in some areas. .... 840412[/snapback] I fully understand what it is you are getting at but I think you should look at the history of your country in regards to this sort of thing. The US laws have progressively gone away from that rather than 'trickling' towards it, as you stated. Pre WWII the USA was very close in political standing to the Germans. This was followed by the McCarthy era of anti-communist hysteria where the rights of US citizens could be ignored at (virtual) governmental whim. Into the 60's & 70's where the rights & freedoms for so many things were fought for by the people, usually peacefully, & often opposed with force by the authorities. America of today is radically different(& better) than the America of 40+ years ago. We all have to remain vigilant that things do not regress but never mistake the levels of rights & freedoms that you have..... and that many people of the past gave their time, energy, resources & sometimes lives for you to live in one of the freest countries in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachChuckDickerson Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 But they tased him after they had handcuffed him.How does that work when you are dealing with a moron? ZZZZZAP handcuffs go on "Get up sir." "NO." ZZZZZAP "Get up sir." "NO." ZZZZZAP "Get up sir." "NO." ZZZZZAP "Get up sir." "NO." ZZZZZAP "Get up sir." "NO." ZZZZZAP "Get up sir." "NO." ZZZZZAP "Get up sir." "NO." How about two officers grabbing him under the armpits & dragging him to the car? 847615[/snapback] Or it could have gone like this: "You don't have your student ID. I'm sorry but you need to leave." "My bad, I'll go get it." Instead: "!@#$ you, get your hands off me! I'M LEAVING!" Odd how things like this seem to happen to "the righteous" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Bills fan Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Post 911 USA = Police State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Post 911 USA = Police State. 848825[/snapback] Believe it or not, some cops were d!cks way before that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Post 911 USA = Police State. 848825[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 I dont think anyone has responded to Dibs remark on them not needing to tase the student after he was handcuffed. I didnt watch the vido, but if it is true that they tased him AFTER he was handcuffed, then thats just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted November 27, 2006 Author Share Posted November 27, 2006 I dont think anyone has responded to Dibs remark on them not needing to tase the student after he was handcuffed. I didnt watch the vido, but if it is true that they tased him AFTER he was handcuffed, then thats just ridiculous. 849212[/snapback] Why don't you just watch the video. The kid was still resisting arrest after he was handcuffed. I think getting tazed is better than getting rodney kinged or pepper sprayed. Did you see who this kid hired as his lawyer? Stephen Yagman, who was suspended from practicing law for ethical violations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Why don't you just watch the video. The kid was still resisting arrest after he was handcuffed. I think getting tazed is better than getting rodney kinged or pepper sprayed. Did you see who this kid hired as his lawyer? Stephen Yagman, who was suspended from practicing law for ethical violations. 849245[/snapback] OK. I watched the tape and this is what I believe: 1. I am no medical expert, but from reading a few med journals on tasers and hearing first hand experience from an officer who went through taser training (was in my mothers med office), it is very possible that the student may not have been ABLE to get up. 2. I heard one student say (not very far into the video) "officers we want your information" or something to that affect. While they may not have to give the person asking their information while they were in the middle of the rest, they do (by law) have to give the person asking their information before they leave the scene. I gave you multiple articles/laws/verdicts on this. Your friend decided to ignore them ... but hey. What can I do? I gave you the information. 3. I dont know if you have X-Ray eyes or something, but I could not actually see what was happening with the angle the camera was at. I could see a few officers and I could hear the screams/complaints on the student being tased. That is all. 4. Police Officers (even in situations like this) are not the supreme power of the universe. I have seen too many and read too many cases to know that this is NOT true. I dont know the follow-up to this story, but I wouldnt be suprised to see some sort of action coming towards theseofficers. Furthermore, if the student is smart he will hire a 'smart' attorney (I noticed your remark on who he hired) and they could really go after the police department over this. Tons, of witness's. Most of which (I would think) would be testifying in defense of the student. Medical reports coming out that defend the student (time it takes for him to be able to stand up ... etc). 5. I see a couple of students 3/4 of the way into the video talking to a few officers. Was this what we were talking about earlier when the officers told students to step back? 6. Lessons learned: You simple leave (before the police need to get involved) and this wouldnt be a problem. On the OTHER hand, the police department and these officers inparticular may just be in a bit of trouble. I would be very interested in seeing a follow-up on this story. P.S. Just looked it up and apparently the student is filing a lawsuit against the officers/department. Another follow-up to this story. The officer that pulled out and used the Taser (Officer Duran), according to about.com has "been accused of choking a student with a nightstick in 1990 and shooting a homeless man in 2003" ... apparently he got off of both of them, but his rap sheet isnt the best huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted November 28, 2006 Author Share Posted November 28, 2006 OK. I watched the tape and this is what I believe: 1. I am no medical expert, but from reading a few med journals on tasers and hearing first hand experience from an officer who went through taser training (was in my mothers med office), it is very possible that the student may not have been ABLE to get up. He couldn't get up but he had plenty of energy to scream nonsense about the patriot act. 2. I heard one student say (not very far into the video) "officers we want your information" or something to that affect. While they may not have to give the person asking their information while they were in the middle of the rest, they do (by law) have to give the person asking their information before they leave the scene. I gave you multiple articles/laws/verdicts on this. Your friend decided to ignore them ... but hey. What can I do? I gave you the information. You wanted a South Carolina police officer to interpret a Florida law, and apply it to something that happened in California. I told you what the law is here in South Carolina. 3. I dont know if you have X-Ray eyes or something, but I could not actually see what was happening with the angle the camera was at. I could see a few officers and I could hear the screams/complaints on the student being tased. That is all. Obviously he wasn't leaving the building as asked. 4. Police Officers (even in situations like this) are not the supreme power of the universe. I have seen too many and read too many cases to know that this is NOT true. Go ahead and start listing examples. I look forward to reading them. 5. I see a couple of students 3/4 of the way into the video talking to a few officers. Was this what we were talking about earlier when the officers told students to step back? The police told them to step back or they would get tased. They moved back and that was the end of it. 6. Lessons learned: You simple leave (before the police need to get involved) and this wouldnt be a problem. On the OTHER hand, the police department and these officers inparticular may just be in a bit of trouble. I would be very interested in seeing a follow-up on this story. This kid will settle out of court for millions of dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nixon Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Do Campus Police have silencers on their guns? I'm just sayin...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 He couldn't get up but he had plenty of energy to scream nonsense about the patriot act. Ok. I had my mother look at some of the responses on this thread and she was simply at awe at (as she said) the "ignorance" on this board about tasers. She is a certified neurological tech that works for a neurologist with electro-nerodiagnostic medicine. She conducts nerve conduction studies for medical agencies and patients throughout the country for over 25 years and she COMPLETELY agrees with the attorney from UCLA that said tasering someone even two to three times can cause permanent damage. She went on to say that tasering someone 5 or more times could (and has in the past) killed people ... in fact she went on to say that if I was right that the student got tasered atleast 5 times, she would be stunned that he would not have long term damage. Furthermore she said that the legal case he is entering may be incredibly easy to win (if it goes that far ... it may be settled outside of court) due to the ammount of medical professionals who will testify on his behalf. Just a little INFO. Go ahead and start listing examples. I look forward to reading them. Well I could start with the fact that you have the right to refuse to let an officer in your house without a warrant. Refuse to let them search your car unless he/she see's something visibly (plain sight law) that is unlawful (such as a blunt laying on the backseat), you have the right to refuse to talk to police until you speak to an attorney (a law that has had multiple testimonys thrown out and not admissable in court) ... there is a ton more. The police told them to step back or they would get tased. They moved back and that was the end of it. 850203[/snapback] Did you read what I wrote about the history of that fine police officer? Choking someone and shooting a homeless man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nixon Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Ok. I had my mother look at some of the responses on this thread and she was simply at awe at (as she said) the "ignorance" on this board about tasers. She is a certified neurological tech that works for a neurologist with electro-nerodiagnostic medicine. She conducts nerve conduction studies for medical agencies and patients throughout the country for over 25 years and she COMPLETELY agrees with the attorney from UCLA that said tasering someone even two to three times can cause permanent damage. She went on to say that tasering someone 5 or more times could (and has in the past) killed people ... in fact she went on to say that if I was right that the student got tasered atleast 5 times, she would be stunned that he would not have long term damage. Furthermore she said that the legal case he is entering may be incredibly easy to win (if it goes that far ... it may be settled outside of court) due to the ammount of medical professionals who will testify on his behalf. Just a little INFO.Well I could start with the fact that you have the right to refuse to let an officer in your house without a warrant. Refuse to let them search your car unless he/she see's something visibly (plain sight law) that is unlawful (such as a blunt laying on the backseat), you have the right to refuse to talk to police until you speak to an attorney (a law that has had multiple testimonys thrown out and not admissable in court) ... there is a ton more. Did you read what I wrote about the history of that fine police officer? Choking someone and shooting a homeless man. 850356[/snapback] Mama's boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Mama's boy. 850364[/snapback] I use people's knowledge ... and yes I love my mama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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