What should the Bills have done at QB

[Orton's Arm]

What in the world!

 

Are you serious?

 

I'm not a huge fan of Big Ben,  but there is no way...

606693[/snapback]

I looked at their numbers. Ben Roethlisberger had a rating of 98.1 his first year, 98.6 his second year. Matt Shaub had a rating of only 42.0 his first year, but climbed to an impressive 98.1 his second year. Keep in mind that since Shaub was a backup, he had about 1/5 the attempts as Roethlisberger in each of his two years.

 

Both players enjoyed good OLs, good running games, and good TEs. Bottom line, Roethlisberger has proven more than Shaub, because Roethlisberger has played well for two regular seasons, and one set of playoff games. (He did badly in the Super Bowl and in last year's playoff games though.)

 

Still, Shaub has done quite well with the opportunities he's been given, at least in his second year. Assuming he can keep that kind of production up, he'll have been a ridiculously good value for that third round pick.

[The Dean]

I looked at their numbers. Ben Roethlisberger had a rating of 98.1 his first year, 98.6 his second year. Matt Shaub had a rating of only 42.0 his first year, but climbed to an impressive 98.1 his second year. Keep in mind that since Shaub was a backup, he had about 1/5 the attempts as Roethlisberger in each of his two years.

 

Both players enjoyed good OLs, good running games, and good TEs. Bottom line, Roethlisberger has proven more than Shaub, because Roethlisberger has played well for two regular seasons, and one set of playoff games. (He did badly in the Super Bowl and in last year's playoff games though.)

 

Still, Shaub has done quite well with the opportunities he's been given, at least in his second year. Assuming he can keep that kind of production up, he'll have been a ridiculously good value for that third round pick.

606776[/snapback]

 

 

You really cling to that QB rating, dontcha?

[Orton's Arm]

You really cling to that QB rating, dontcha?

606844[/snapback]

I know you're never one to pass up the chance to hurl an insult my way, but this is stretching things even for you.

[drnykterstein]

You really cling to that QB rating, dontcha?

606844[/snapback]

Well, how about if I state that Pitts O-line is better than Atlanta's.

.. and I state that Pitts Wided Recievers are better than Atlanta's.

 

Thus Shaub has done well despite a worse line and lesser targets than Big Ben has.

 

 

or are you going to argue at me how awesome Atlanta's offensive line is?

[Orton's Arm]

Well, how about if I state that Pitts O-line is better than Atlanta's.

.. and I state that Pitts Wided Recievers are better than Atlanta's.

 

Thus Shaub has done well despite a worse line and lesser targets than Big Ben has.

or are you going to argue at me how awesome Atlanta's offensive line is?

607404[/snapback]

I'm not going to disagree with anything in this post. But I still maintain that Roethlisberger has proven more than Shaub. Consider Rob Johnson's stellar performance in a regular season game with the Jaguars. On the basis of that performance, the Bills traded for Johnson; annointing him the QB of the future. I'm not saying that every QB who has a good game or two will become the next Rob Johnson. But you have to bear in mind that it's a possibility.

[sfladave]

I'm not going to disagree with anything in this post. But I still maintain that Roethlisberger has proven more than Shaub. Consider Rob Johnson's stellar performance in a regular season game with the Jaguars. On the basis of that performance, the Bills traded for Johnson; annointing him the QB of the future. I'm not saying that every QB who has a good game or two will become the next Rob Johnson. But you have to bear in mind that it's a possibility.

607486[/snapback]

The funny thing is that is exactly what people say about Kelly Holcomb.

 

You have to bear in mind that it's a possibility.

[Kelly the Dog]

You really cling to that QB rating, dontcha?

606844[/snapback]

Of course The Rag does. It's the one thing that distorts Holcomb's numbers enough. And of course, it is also the only thing in the world that rewards failure like throwing 4 yard passes on 3rd and 5.

[Orton's Arm]

The funny thing is that is exactly what people say about Kelly Holcomb.

 

You have to bear in mind that it's a possibility.

607490[/snapback]

This post would actually be relevant if Holcomb had had only one or two good performances. But in addition to several outstanding games, he's shown weekly consistency with the Bills. Never, in a game which Holcomb played start to finish, have the Bills walked away with less than 16 points. Care to know what the Patriots' lowest score for the year was? You guessed it: 16 points.

[Orton's Arm]

Of course The Rag does. It's the one thing that distorts Holcomb's numbers enough. And of course, it is also the only thing in the world that rewards failure like throwing 4 yard passes on 3rd and 5.

607503[/snapback]

Between you and Al Franken, it seems everyone who claims to be "fair and balanced" has proven the opposite.

 

Rob Johnson played behind a lousy line. People just like you criticized him for taking too many sacks. Holcomb plays behind an even worse line, and your panties are all tangled up because he takes the dump-off instead of the sack.

[The Dean]

This post would actually be relevant if Holcomb had had only one or two good performances. But in addition to several outstanding games, he's shown weekly consistency with the Bills. Never, in a game which Holcomb played start to finish, have the Bills walked away with less than 16 points. Care to know what the Patriots' lowest score for the year was? You guessed it: 16 points.

607513[/snapback]

 

 

[Orton's Arm]

   

607515[/snapback]

Your failure to understand one of my posts is hardly anything new. But which part, may I ask, did you fail to get? The part about Holcomb having several outstanding performaces? He threw for over 400 yards twice while with Cleveland, had another near-400 yard performance with them too, and had an outstanding performance against the Bengals while with the Bills.

 

Or maybe you're confused about the whole points per game thing. If it would make things simpler for you, I can use QB rating instead. But looking at the number of points a team produces per game gives you a very rough gauge for how well the QB has managed the offense. It's not like the Bills had an outstanding running game or a great defense, so whatever points the Bills walked away with usually involved the passing game.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Other. Run the wishbone, man.

[Kelly the Dog]

Between you and Al Franken, it seems everyone who claims to be "fair and balanced" has proven the opposite.

 

Rob Johnson played behind a lousy line. People just like you criticized him for taking too many sacks. Holcomb plays behind an even worse line, and your panties are all tangled up because he takes the dump-off instead of the sack.

607514[/snapback]

No. Completely wrong. He takes the dump off knowing there is very little chance that the first down will be had. And his rating is rewarded for it, which makes it misleading. On the other hand, other quarterbacks, including JP, will try to make a play. And hence, his QB rating often goes down when Holcomb's goes up. The QB rating is extremely misleading at times. It doesnt count fumbles and sacks and again, it rewards things that are often bad plays. And I happen to like Holcomb. A lot. As a back-up.

[sfladave]

This post would actually be relevant if Holcomb had had only one or two good performances. But in addition to several outstanding games, he's shown weekly consistency with the Bills. Never, in a game which Holcomb played start to finish, have the Bills walked away with less than 16 points. Care to know what the Patriots' lowest score for the year was? You guessed it: 16 points.

607513[/snapback]

Let's compare Rob Johnson and Kelly Holcomb then. The bold indicates the better between the two.

 

Career games started/games played/years in league:

RJ - 29/48/10

KH - 21/34/10

 

Career QB rating:

RJ - 83.6

KH - 79.9

 

Career Completion %:

RJ - 61.3

KH - 64.6

 

Career passing yards:

RJ - 5795

KH - 5401

 

Career rushing yards:

RJ - 877

KH - 30

 

Career total yards:

RJ - 6672

KH - 5431

 

Career total yards per play:

RJ - 7.05

KH - 6.36

 

Career TD/INT:

RJ - 30/23

KH - 37/37

 

Career fumbles:

RJ - 14

KH - 24

 

Career YPC:

RJ - 7.19

KH - 6.67

 

Career 20+ yard completions:

RJ - 76

KH - 54

 

Career 40+ yard completions:

RJ - 14

KH - 9

 

Career seaons with 100+ QB rating:

RJ - 3 (total 15 games played)

KH - 1 (total 1 game played)

 

Now explain to me why we should think Holcomb is anything more than an OK back up. He doesn't even beat Rob Johnson on 12/13 categories.

[Sisyphean Bills]

No. Completely wrong. He takes the dump off knowing there is very little chance that the first down will be had. And his rating is rewarded for it, which makes it misleading. On the other hand, other quarterbacks, including JP, will try to make a play. And hence, his QB rating often goes down when Holcomb's goes up. The QB rating is extremely misleading at times. It doesnt count fumbles and sacks and again, it rewards things that are often bad plays. And I happen to like Holcomb. A lot. As a back-up.

607549[/snapback]

 

Rob Johnson was a disastard. Never could get it through his thick skull to get rid of the ball.

[Kelly the Dog]

Rob Johnson was a disastard.  Never could get it through his thick skull to get rid of the ball.

607551[/snapback]

But he had a pretty good QB rating so he must be pretty good.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Let's compare Rob Johnson and Kelly Holcomb then. The bold indicates the better between the two.

 

Career games started/games played/years in league:

RJ - 29/48/10

KH - 21/34/10

 

Career QB rating:

RJ - 83.6

KH - 79.9

 

Career Completion %:

RJ - 61.3

KH - 64.6

 

Career passing yards:

RJ - 5795

KH - 5401

 

Career rushing yards:

RJ - 877

KH - 30

 

Career total yards:

RJ - 6672

KH - 5431

 

Career total yards per play:

RJ - 7.05

KH - 6.36

 

Career TD/INT:

RJ - 30/23

KH - 37/37

 

Career fumbles:

RJ - 14

KH - 24

 

Career YPC:

RJ - 7.19

KH - 6.67

 

Career 20+ yard completions:

RJ - 76

KH - 54

 

Career 40+ yard completions:

RJ - 14

KH - 9

 

Career seaons with 100+ QB rating:

RJ - 3 (total 15 games played)

KH - 1 (total 1 game played)

 

Now explain to me why we should think Holcomb is anything more than an OK back up. He doesn't even beat Rob Johnson on 12/13 categories.

607550[/snapback]

 

Yep. Holcomb will take a team exactly nowhere.

[Sisyphean Bills]

We really need JP to start playing like someone with a thimble of talent. Or maybe this Tory chick. Maybe we'll catch a break and she can play.

 

Holcomb?! Do we just suck or what? Holcomb. Damn, man.

[sfladave]

We really need JP to start playing like someone with a thimble of talent.  Or maybe this Tory chick.  Maybe we'll catch a break and she can play.

 

Holcomb?!  Do we just suck or what?  Holcomb.  Damn, man. 

607556[/snapback]

Holcomb has as much a chance of taking us to the SB as Willis has a chance of being God.

 

edit: Unfortunately JP has not shown us that he can take us to the SB either. We do know Holcomb won't, there is still hope JP can. JP did improve dramatically last year as the year progressed, hopefully that progression will continue.

[drnykterstein]

Let's compare Rob Johnson and Kelly Holcomb then. The bold indicates the better between the two.

607550[/snapback]

wow, sfldave...

I was never ever pro-holcomb, but never really anti holcomb either. I was of the "coaches know best" mindset. btu after this post I have to say that I might just be anti-holcomb now.