X. Benedict Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Not according to the president of Iran. He says it never happened.He never lies. 548950[/snapback] That and he has something else in mind other than the current Mercador and Political projections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Religion is a ready made key that opens the door for a person to be manipulated into believing just about anything. If you have a guy who has been raised since birth to believe in an underworld governed by a 10 headed goat and believes it well into adulthood, how hard would he be to convince him that this unseen 10 headed goat wants him to blow up heretics who believe that the underworld is run by a 5 headed goat? Add in that the guy is mired in endless poverty and the 5 headed goat believers are rich beyond his imagining and then add that these heretics are also good friends with a hated and feared neighbor of his that beleive, of all things, that the underworld is ruled by a 3 headed newt and it gets even easier. This is my entry for strangest metaphor of 2006. I'm trying to set the bar high from the git-go for all you challengers to have something to shoot for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdh1 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Religion is a ready made key that opens the door for a person to be manipulated into believing just about anything. If you have a guy who has been raised since birth to believe in an underworld governed by a 10 headed goat and believes it well into adulthood, how hard would he be to convince him that this unseen 10 headed goat wants him to blow up heretics who believe that the underworld is run by a 5 headed goat? Add in that the guy is mired in endless poverty and the 5 headed goat believers are rich beyond his imagining and then add that these heretics are also good friends with a hated and feared neighbor of his that beleive, of all things, that the underworld is ruled by a 3 headed newt and it gets even easier. This is my entry for strangest metaphor of 2006. I'm trying to set the bar high from the git-go for all you challengers to have something to shoot for. 550167[/snapback] The endless poverty argument again? The "magnificent 19" (as they are know in the middle east) where all well-educated and came from an upper-middle class background. The London bombers were college educated, and one was even receiving government assistance on the back of the tax payers for some twenty odd years to help support him and his 4 kids. Osama and his right hand man are both rich. And a certain Jordanian causing lots of problems in Iraq and blowing up hotels in Jordan comes from a well to do family. The rioters in France complained about the lack of jobs, but I ask you: If you refused to work for a woman or some who is jewish, wouldn't that be narrowing you options a bit? I am waiting for the day someone rationalizes the mentality of the KKK on being poor and desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 The endless poverty argument again? The "magnificent 19" (as they are know in the middle east) where all well-educated and came from an upper-middle class background. The London bombers were college educated, and one was even receiving government assistance on the back of the tax payers for some twenty odd years to help support him and his 4 kids. Osama and his right hand man are both rich. And a certain Jordanian causing lots of problems in Iraq and blowing up hotels in Jordan comes from a well to do family. The rioters in France complained about the lack of jobs, but I ask you: If you refused to work for a woman or some who is jewish, wouldn't that be narrowing you options a bit? I am waiting for the day someone rationalizes the mentality of the KKK on being poor and desperate. 552225[/snapback] Actually, the argument was that religion can be used as a key to get people to do anything, even strap on bombs. Adding in other factors, be it poverty, ethnic or religious conflict, etc., etc,. just makes it even easier to pick that lock. Would suicide bombing be as easy to sell if their belief in their faith didn't already convince them that paradise awaits, that their death is not really death but just a ticket to the afterlife? Besides, isn't it possible that well educated and well off persons in the middle east, seeing the poverty of their countrymen around them, the refugees, the wasted lives, might actually care about them? Isn't it possible that they, already programmed to beleive just about anything, having been raised since birth to believe passionately in their faith, could be convinced, using their faith as the key, that the way to save their people is to blow up other people? How hard would it be to combine their sympathy for their fellow muslims, their ethnic loyalties, their faith and easy to paint as anti-muslim actions of western nations and come up with a guy who hates the west enough to become a suicide bomber? Please stop spinning every attempt to understand suicide bombing as a justification for same or a demonstration of sympathy for them. I lost a friend on 9-11 and I don't want to lose another. Seems to me that one way to achieve that is to try and understand the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdh1 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Actually, the argument was that religion can be used as a key to get people to do anything, even strap on bombs. Adding in other factors, be it poverty, ethnic or religious conflict, etc., etc,. just makes it even easier to pick that lock. Would suicide bombing be as easy to sell if their belief in their faith didn't already convince them that paradise awaits, that their death is not really death but just a ticket to the afterlife?Besides, isn't it possible that well educated and well off persons in the middle east, seeing the poverty of their countrymen around them, the refugees, the wasted lives, might actually care about them? Isn't it possible that they, already programmed to beleive just about anything, having been raised since birth to believe passionately in their faith, could be convinced, using their faith as the key, that the way to save their people is to blow up other people? How hard would it be to combine their sympathy for their fellow muslims, their ethnic loyalties, their faith and easy to paint as anti-muslim actions of western nations and come up with a guy who hates the west enough to become a suicide bomber? Please stop spinning every attempt to understand suicide bombing as a justification for same or a demonstration of sympathy for them. I lost a friend on 9-11 and I don't want to lose another. Seems to me that one way to achieve that is to try and understand the enemy. 552483[/snapback] Again, the analogy should be hatred of others different from you, not "the poverty of their countrymen around them, the refugees, the wasted lives" Why do they feel such anger at the actions of Israel and the US against their fellow Muslims, but don't give two farts about even worse acts committed against them by their fellow Muslims?Andy one recall Jordan killing over 20,000 Palestinians in the 70's? Saddam's mass graves? Case in Point: You saw large protests all over the Muslim world when reports came out the some american dropped a Koran, and that woman actually touched a copy. But in Iraq, Afghanistan, and even Turkey, you have Muslims walking in to Mosques full of people from a different sect, and blowing them all up. Seems to me that is a lot worse.... In on specific incident in Afghanistan, and Arab Sunni Muslim walked into a Shiite Mosque, and blew up over 30 people. After the explosion, and angry mob formed, and they proceeded to destroy a Kentucky Fried Chicken Restaurant while chanting "Death to America" Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Again, the analogy should be hatred of others different from you, not "the poverty of their countrymen around them, the refugees, the wasted lives" Why do they feel such anger at the actions of Israel and the US against their fellow Muslims, but don't give two farts about even worse acts committed against them by their fellow Muslims?Andy one recall Jordan killing over 20,000 Palestinians in the 70's? Saddam's mass graves? Case in Point: You saw large protests all over the Muslim world when reports came out the some american dropped a Koran, and that woman actually touched a copy. But in Iraq, Afghanistan, and even Turkey, you have Muslims walking in to Mosques full of people from a different sect, and blowing them all up. Seems to me that is a lot worse.... In on specific incident in Afghanistan, and Arab Sunni Muslim walked into a Shiite Mosque, and blew up over 30 people. After the explosion, and angry mob formed, and they proceeded to destroy a Kentucky Fried Chicken Restaurant while chanting "Death to America" Go figure. 552755[/snapback] Is your point that we should pay more attention to Muslims blowing each other up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdh1 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Is your point that we should pay more attention to Muslims blowing each other up? 552787[/snapback] Nope. They should. Good old selective outrage. Like a fellow Bills fan could screw you wife, and you don't get mad, because he likes the bills. A dolphins fan steals your sunday paper, and you go punch his lights, because he is dolphins fans and shouldn't do anything that might offend you. And the fellow Bills fan starts stealing your money and wrecking your property. But you are still more mad at the dolphins fan, because you hate the dolphins that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Again, the analogy should be hatred of others different from you, not "the poverty of their countrymen around them, the refugees, the wasted lives" Why do they feel such anger at the actions of Israel and the US against their fellow Muslims, but don't give two farts about even worse acts committed against them by their fellow Muslims?Andy one recall Jordan killing over 20,000 Palestinians in the 70's? Saddam's mass graves? Case in Point: You saw large protests all over the Muslim world when reports came out the some american dropped a Koran, and that woman actually touched a copy. But in Iraq, Afghanistan, and even Turkey, you have Muslims walking in to Mosques full of people from a different sect, and blowing them all up. Seems to me that is a lot worse.... In on specific incident in Afghanistan, and Arab Sunni Muslim walked into a Shiite Mosque, and blew up over 30 people. After the explosion, and angry mob formed, and they proceeded to destroy a Kentucky Fried Chicken Restaurant while chanting "Death to America" Go figure. 552755[/snapback] I am not sure where you are trying to go here. My point is that religion makes it easier to convince people to do and believe in crazy shite. What you are talking about shows just that. Adding in other factors that are bound to be persuasive such as poverty and ethnic conflicts, etc, etc, makes it just that much easier to get them to do crazy things like blowing up buildings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Nope. They should. Good old selective outrage. Like a fellow Bills fan could screw you wife, and you don't get mad, because he likes the bills. A dolphins fan steals your sunday paper, and you go punch his lights, because he is dolphins fans and shouldn't do anything that might offend you. And the fellow Bills fan starts stealing your money and wrecking your property. But you are still more mad at the dolphins fan, because you hate the dolphins that much. 553191[/snapback] Did you ever ask them what they think? How many Islamic editorial pages do you read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philburger1 Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 Did you ever ask them what they think? How many Islamic editorial pages do you read? 553663[/snapback] How many mass protests have you every seen against anyone else who is a muslim against other muslims for bombing their own holy sites and killing their own people? Zero It is much easier to blame others for your misery. But the "blame others" cop-out only applies when is from western, white christians, I guess. Everyone else is a victim, and their are desperate, and poor, and blah friggin blah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 How many mass protests have you every seen against anyone else who is a muslim against other muslims for bombing their own holy sites and killing their own people? Zero 554406[/snapback] Maybe you've seen precisely zero. But then...where are you looking? Nowhere, I'd wager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philburger1 Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 Maybe you've seen precisely zero. But then...where are you looking? Nowhere, I'd wager. 554549[/snapback] Here is a story hot of the news wire. Now all day I will look at the Al-Justterrorisst news site, and see how much outrage there is. I will also watch the BBC, and CNN international for coverage of the giant protests this causes: KARBALA, Iraq -- A suicide bomber set off explosives near one of Shiite Islam's holiest shrines Thursday, killing almost 50 people, officials said. The blast near the Imam Hussein shrine in central Karbala, 50 miles south of Baghdad, killed 49 people and injured 52, said Karbala police Col. Razaq al-Taie. The site was a scene of chaos afterward with men ferrying the wounded in push carts and pools of blood on the ground. The bomber appeared to have set off the explosion only about 30 yards from the shrine in a busy shopping area. The bomber detonated about 17 pounds of explosives and several hand grenades, Al-Taie said. Al-Khazraji blamed the attack on "takfiris and Saddamists." The takfiri ideology is followed by extremist Sunni Muslims bent on killing anyone considered to be an infidel, even fellow Muslims who disagree with their doctrine. Al-Qaida in Iraq leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is a takfiri. Thursday's attack follows a heavy day of violence Wednesday, when at least 53 people were killed around Iraq, including 32 killed by a suicide bomber at a Shiite funeral east of Baqouba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Nope. They should. Good old selective outrage. Like a fellow Bills fan could screw you wife, and you don't get mad, because he likes the bills. A dolphins fan steals your sunday paper, and you go punch his lights, because he is dolphins fans and shouldn't do anything that might offend you. And the fellow Bills fan starts stealing your money and wrecking your property. But you are still more mad at the dolphins fan, because you hate the dolphins that much. 553191[/snapback] Weren't there massive protests in Jordan after the wedding bombings, and enormous protests in Lebanon after the Syrian assasination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdh1 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Weren't there massive protests in Jordan after the wedding bombings, and enormous protests in Lebanon after the Syrian assasination? 554948[/snapback] HA! Yes, mainly by Christians, who, after all, are the target of many of the bombings in Lebanon. FROM WIKIPEDIA: "The 2005 Lebanon bombings were a series of bombings that occurred mainly in Beirut, Lebanon and its suburbs. While the current wave of bombings began in October 2004, the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri on February 14, 2005, touched off the Cedar revolution and the withdrawal of Syrian troops. After the massive protests following Hariri's killing, several more bombings hit Lebanon, following a similar pattern: most of them occurred at night, in Christian areas of the country, and often on Fridays. Though the perpetrators behind the bombings are unknown, suspicion by some within Lebanon and the international community has fallen on Syria or its supporters" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 HA! Yes, mainly by Christians, who, after all, are the target of many of the bombings in Lebanon. FROM WIKIPEDIA: "The 2005 Lebanon bombings were a series of bombings that occurred mainly in Beirut, Lebanon and its suburbs. While the current wave of bombings began in October 2004, the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri on February 14, 2005, touched off the Cedar revolution and the withdrawal of Syrian troops. After the massive protests following Hariri's killing, several more bombings hit Lebanon, following a similar pattern: most of them occurred at night, in Christian areas of the country, and often on Fridays. Though the perpetrators behind the bombings are unknown, suspicion by some within Lebanon and the international community has fallen on Syria or its supporters" 555049[/snapback] Read his post again. He was talking about protests in Jordan, not Lebanon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Read his post again. He was talking about protests in Jordan, not Lebanon. 555066[/snapback] Actually, you may want to re-read XB's post, since he specifically mentioned protests in Lebanon as well as Jordan. Weren't there massive protests in Jordan after the wedding bombings, and enormous protests in Lebanon after the Syrian assasination? phd1 failed to address the first part of XB's post and only focused on the second part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Actually, you may want to re-read XB's post, since he specifically mentioned protests in Lebanon as well as Jordan. phd1 failed to address the first part of XB's post and only focused on the second part. 555088[/snapback] No where in pdh1's post does he back up his assertion that the Lebanese protesters were mostly Christian. The original assertion was that muslims have never protested other muslims, which is clearly refuted by the Jordanian protests at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 No where in pdh1's post does he back up his assertion that the Lebanese protesters were mostly Christian. The original assertion was that muslims have never protested other muslims, which is clearly refuted by the Jordanian protests at the very least. 555138[/snapback] I never said he proved his point, I just said that he addressed it. You can still address something with a poor rebuttal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Weren't there massive protests in Jordan after the wedding bombings, and enormous protests in Lebanon after the Syrian assasination? 554948[/snapback] Yep. Indonesian Islamic groups condemned the Bali bombings, as well, and frequently guard and protect Christian sites against Islamic terrorists. And I believe there was general condemnation by Egyptians of the last terrorist attacks in Egypt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I never said he proved his point, I just said that he addressed it. You can still address something with a poor rebuttal. 555143[/snapback] By failing to address Jordan, I think the failed to address the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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