RkFast Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 "Conservative and radical clerics" take the view that the Koran only distinguishes between believers and unbelievers, not civilians and soldiers. The original post says quite clearly that he's recruiting for operations against "enemies of Islam", which would typically mean anyone perceived as an "enemy of Islam", regardless of the western distinction of "soldier" and "civilian". Frankly, I don't see how he's advocating anything else. "martyrdom operations against the enemies of Islam" is pretty damned unambiguous. 391370[/snapback] I believe some dude named Osama made a similar statement a few years back. So it's pretty safe to assume this kook is recruiting for terrorist operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 "Conservative and radical clerics" take the view that the Koran only distinguishes between believers and unbelievers, not civilians and soldiers. The original post says quite clearly that he's recruiting for operations against "enemies of Islam", which would typically mean anyone perceived as an "enemy of Islam", regardless of the western distinction of "soldier" and "civilian". Frankly, I don't see how he's advocating anything else. "martyrdom operations against the enemies of Islam" is pretty damned unambiguous. 391370[/snapback] "Enemies of Islam" is pretty standard mullah speech which could mean several things. Does he mean all enemies of Islam?. Some enemies of Islam?Selected enemies of Islam? The statement talks of "all-out readiness" which implies that these operations are not to be carried out now but at some future time (an invasion of Iran, perhaps?). Why wait? Are there not already "enemies of Islam" (in his view) in the world? If he was incapable of making judgements (as you seem to be suggesting) as to which enemies of Islam are to be attacked, why shouldn't he be advocating attacks against them right now? Also, where are these "martyrdom operations" to be carried out? In Iran? Abroad? If the latter, it seems a strange policy to forewarn western nations by publicly announcing his intentions in this way. Again, you may be right that he is indeed advocating terrorist attacks against civilians but I don't think the snippet provided makes that clear by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 "Enemies of Islam" is pretty standard mullah speech which could mean several things. Does he mean all enemies of Islam?. Some enemies of Islam?Selected enemies of Islam? The statement talks of "all-out readiness" which implies that these operations are not to be carried out now but at some future time (an invasion of Iran, perhaps?). Why wait? Are there not already "enemies of Islam" (in his view) in the world? If he was incapable of making judgements (as you seem to be suggesting) as to which enemies of Islam are to be attacked, why shouldn't he be advocating attacks against them right now? Also, where are these "martyrdom operations" to be carried out? In Iran? Abroad? If the latter, it seems a strange policy to forewarn western nations by publicly announcing his intentions in this way. Again, you may be right that he is indeed advocating terrorist attacks against civilians but I don't think the snippet provided makes that clear by any means. 392058[/snapback] You've GOT to be kidding me. Post of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 You've GOT to be kidding me. Post of the year. 392073[/snapback] Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 "Enemies of Islam" is pretty standard mullah speech which could mean several things. Does he mean all enemies of Islam?. Some enemies of Islam?Selected enemies of Islam? The statement talks of "all-out readiness" which implies that these operations are not to be carried out now but at some future time (an invasion of Iran, perhaps?). Why wait? Are there not already "enemies of Islam" (in his view) in the world? If he was incapable of making judgements (as you seem to be suggesting) as to which enemies of Islam are to be attacked, why shouldn't he be advocating attacks against them right now? Also, where are these "martyrdom operations" to be carried out? In Iran? Abroad? If the latter, it seems a strange policy to forewarn western nations by publicly announcing his intentions in this way. Again, you may be right that he is indeed advocating terrorist attacks against civilians but I don't think the snippet provided makes that clear by any means. 392058[/snapback] This is the most stunning piece of double-talk I have ever read. For twenty years, "martyrdom" in "attacking the enemies of Islam" has meant terrorist attacks against Western, primarily civilian, targets in Western countries. And suddenly, it means something completely different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 This is the most stunning piece of double-talk I have ever read. For twenty years, "martyrdom" in "attacking the enemies of Islam" has meant terrorist attacks against Western, primarily civilian, targets in Western countries. And suddenly, it means something completely different? 392100[/snapback] Given that there is plenty of speculation about an attack on Iran at the moment, I don't think it is at all out of the question that it could just as easily refer to attacks on an invading army. They would still be "martyrdom operations" and a US force invading Iran would certainly be seen as "enemies of Islam and the Islamic republic of Iran". BTW the BBC spin on it is that it's a load of hot air: BBC Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 This is the most stunning piece of double-talk I have ever read. For twenty years, "martyrdom" in "attacking the enemies of Islam" has meant terrorist attacks against Western, primarily civilian, targets in Western countries. And suddenly, it means something completely different? 392100[/snapback] There have also been suicide bombings against US troops in Iraq (as well as those targetting civilians). Care to hazard a guess as to how the groups that have carried out those attacks would describe them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 There have also been suicide bombings against US troops in Iraq (as well as those targetting civilians). Care to hazard a guess as to how the groups that have carried out those attacks would describe them? 392116[/snapback] The same way they characterize 9/11. "Defense" against "enemies of Islam". WHICH WAS PRECISELY MY POINT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 The same way they characterize 9/11. "Defense" against "enemies of Islam". WHICH WAS PRECISELY MY POINT. 392248[/snapback] So in other words, "martyrdom operations against enemies of Islam" can mean attacks on military targets as well as attacks on civilians, which was precisely my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 So in other words, "martyrdom operations against enemies of Islam" can mean attacks on military targets as well as attacks on civilians, which was precisely my point. 392270[/snapback] You guys just seem to agree funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I heard part of an interesting article on NPR this morning from a gentleman in the Middle East who's been monitoring the Islamic reaction to terror over a period of time. Here's the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 So in other words, "martyrdom operations against enemies of Islam" can mean attacks on military targets as well as attacks on civilians, which was precisely my point. 392270[/snapback] No, actually you'd said it doesn't mean attacks on civilians. But then, it makes it much easier to win the argument when you change your words in mid-stream, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemur King Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 No, actually you'd said it doesn't mean attacks on civilians. But then, it makes it much easier to win the argument when you change your words in mid-stream, doesn't it? 392419[/snapback] Can't you two just disagree to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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