Britbillsfan Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 No more so than turning a blind eye to the evils of islam and Arab society is. You can pretend it's a religion of peace all you want. All I know is there is no verse in the Bible that espouses rape. There is one in the Koran. 273709[/snapback] Mind you there is a passage in the Bible that says a rapist must pay a fine and then must MARRY his victim........about which I am sure she would be positively ecstatic If you want to go into each religious text in depth then there is plenty of evidence to 'prove' the barbarity of either religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Thankfully, Dan "I'd" Rather "Not" was not doing this story. Still, I do remember when this incident happened, and I cannot recall any major protests in the muslim community, well, anywhere over this killing. 273775[/snapback] Again, my point being, and you seem to be missing it, is this is a lying manipulating news station. What makes you think they are getting the "facts" correct in this story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Mind you there is a passage in the Bible that says a rapist must pay a fine and then must MARRY his victim........about which I am sure she would be positively ecstatic If you want to go into each religious text in depth then there is plenty of evidence to 'prove' the barbarity of either religion. 273778[/snapback] Key point of difference is that in any other religion, these barbaric practices and passages have been rendered pretty much irrelevant and are ignored. But in Islam, in many parts of the world, they are still accepted, practiced and condoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Well, if there were, 60 Minutes sure missed out on them. 273764[/snapback] Gee, you mean "60 Minutes" didn't tell the whole story? Instead they made it an emotional issue to spin people up? There's news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britbillsfan Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Well, if there were, 60 Minutes sure missed out on them. The question remains: A MP in Holland has to live under 24-hour guard because she speaks out against evils in Islamic religion. I ask the questiona gain: why should someone have to live in fear because they question a religion...especially in a secular Europe? My whole issue with allowing Islam to persist in open western societies is that Islam itself seems to be dead set against many principles of western-style democracy. How can you reconcile both? It is my opinion that the followers of this religion should conform to their surroundings or be asked to leave. You cannot allow a minority to assault the basic principles of a government, especially when their ideas are the antithesis of freedom. 273764[/snapback] 1. Yes - it is wrong that someone has to live in fear because members of a religion can not tolerate their views. Not exclusive to Islam although Moslem extremists are the most common malefactors in this regard at this point in time. 2. I can actually agree about the bit about if you are unwilling to integrate you should not emigrate to a Western country in the first place. However a lot of Muslims do integrate perfectly well - it is just the jerks that follow the more extreme fundamentalist forms that are the real problem. 3. US media is not exactly the best in the world, largely because of a tradition of isolationism and introspection that the media has never seemed to have thrown off. As a result it will fail in many areas of reporting and miss things that did happen. So do not feel bad if you missed the fact that there was opposition to the killing within the Dutch moslem community because 60 minutes failed to pick this up. All media screws up from time to time, just like in any other walk of life. 4. The last point I can also agree on. There is a but, however. With traditional post-reformation Christianity as defined by the 'Divine Right of Kings' you can argue that the various churches at the time were definitely anti-democratic also. Because democracy was born in the west due to a whole series of events Christianity itself has changed. Islam has a lot of catching up to do in this regard, but is no more irredeemable than Christianity was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 14, 2005 Author Share Posted March 14, 2005 Gee, you mean "60 Minutes" didn't tell the whole story? Instead they made it an emotional issue to spin people up? There's news. 273788[/snapback] You know, I've never been on the other end of the Darin smiley before. Frightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 14, 2005 Author Share Posted March 14, 2005 Again, my point being, and you seem to be missing it, is this is a lying manipulating news station. What makes you think they are getting the "facts" correct in this story? 273782[/snapback] Do you remember when this happened? I do, and again, never saw any serious upwelling of support in the Muslim world for Theo. But then again, maybe it's just the media. I do pull from a lot of sources, though. you would think that at least ONE of them would have picked up on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britbillsfan Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Key point of difference is that in any other religion, these barbaric practices and passages have been rendered pretty much irrelevant and are ignored. But in Islam, in many parts of the world, they are still accepted, practiced and condoned. 273786[/snapback] And in those parts of the world technology and society has remained pretty much unchanged for a lot longer than Islam and Christianity has been around. It is because of democracy and a greater understanding of the world through science that the west has turned away from the more barbaric principles that can be found in the bible, etc. There are places in the world that are Christian that still are barbaric in the way they live and in their beliefs and will still follow traditional cultural standards of life and use the Koran/Bible to justify these. The problem is not purely Islam, per se. But the fact that ignorance still abounds in many parts of the world and it takes time for this to change, and it will, gradually. It is just unfortunate that evil men will use religion to justify their evil and to keep their position in their society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britbillsfan Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Do you remember when this happened? I do, and again, never saw any serious upwelling of support in the Muslim world for Theo. But then again, maybe it's just the media. I do pull from a lot of sources, though. you would think that at least ONE of them would have picked up on this. 273808[/snapback] Well, as far as the Moslem world is concerned most of it will never have heard of Theo Van Gogh, let alone be able to condone or condemn it. As bad as western media can be at least it does exist. And I doubt very many Muslims would 'support' Theo, he was a caustic character, although most would have been against his murder. No numbers but a brief snippet of info from here : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3978787.stm About 20,000 people attended a memorial gathering for the 47-year-old film maker in Amsterdam on Tuesday. Among them were many Muslims, to demonstrate that they condemned the killing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Well, as far as the Moslem world is concerned most of it will never have heard of Theo Van Gogh, let alone be able to condone or condemn it. As bad as western media can be at least it does exist. And I doubt very many Muslims would 'support' Theo, he was a caustic character, although most would have been against his murder. No numbers but a brief snippet of info from here : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3978787.stm About 20,000 people attended a memorial gathering for the 47-year-old film maker in Amsterdam on Tuesday. Among them were many Muslims, to demonstrate that they condemned the killing. 273824[/snapback] Only 20K condem the murder? The population of the Netherlands is a little over 16 million (I owe GG $0.02), so there are going to be a lot of people deported if JSP had his way. Of course, we should probably just nuke them since such a high percentage of the population condones murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 14, 2005 Author Share Posted March 14, 2005 Only 20K condem the murder? The population of the Netherlands is a little over 16 million (I owe GG $0.02), so there are going to be a lot of people deported if JSP had his way. Of course, we should probably just nuke them since such a high percentage of the population condones murder. 273844[/snapback] Knucklehead. So your solution tot he issue is arrest those who are responsible and ignore the underlying problem? Band-aid, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Knucklehead. So your solution tot he issue is arrest those who are responsible and ignore the underlying problem? Band-aid, anyone? 273856[/snapback] I am just using your POV. Since only 20K showed up, that means that the remaining 16M condone murder. We either deport all 16M so that the 20K can live in peace and harmony, or just nuke the country to eliminate the 16M that condone murder. So, do you want one large bomb or several smaller ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 14, 2005 Author Share Posted March 14, 2005 I am just using your POV. Since only 20K showed up, that means that the remaining 16M condone murder. We either deport all 16M so that the 20K can live in peace and harmony, or just nuke the country to eliminate the 16M that condone murder. So, do you want one large bomb or several smaller ones? 273887[/snapback] Please find where I advocated bombing anyone. I don't think the impetus is on the non-muslim population to protest this sort of behavior. The outrage should come from within the muslim community, seeing as it was one of their own that committed the deed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 I am just using your POV. Since only 20K showed up, that means that the remaining 16M condone murder. We either deport all 16M so that the 20K can live in peace and harmony, or just nuke the country to eliminate the 16M that condone murder. So, do you want one large bomb or several smaller ones? 273887[/snapback] KRC, you have it backwards. They should deport the 20K since obviously the other 15.98 million support the killing by not being at the funeral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Please find where I advocated bombing anyone. I don't think the impetus is on the non-muslim population to protest this sort of behavior. The outrage should come from within the muslim community, seeing as it was one of their own that committed the deed. 273895[/snapback] Well, if you only deport them, they will just cause trouble for another country. You know how those Muslims are. So, several small nukes or just one big one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 14, 2005 Author Share Posted March 14, 2005 Well, if you only deport them, they will just cause trouble for another country. You know how those Muslims are. So, several small nukes or just one big one? 273905[/snapback] mmmkay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 KRC, you have it backwards. They should deport the 20K since obviously the other 15.98 million support the killing by not being at the funeral. 273901[/snapback] You should deport them before the bombing. Then you can nuke the country without having to worry about killing those who condem murder. You are only taking out the 16M who condone murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 mmmkay. 273909[/snapback] What? Too dramatic? Well, if you want something a little more subtle to get rid of those pesky Muslims, you could poison the drinking water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 14, 2005 Author Share Posted March 14, 2005 What? Too dramatic? Well, if you want something a little more subtle to get rid of those pesky Muslims, you could poison the drinking water. 273966[/snapback] Right. Thanks for the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Right. Thanks for the input. 273975[/snapback] Glad I could help you in your crusade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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