BillsNYC Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 He (Green) may very well be thinking along these lines but then are you sure that this makes the Henry for Shelton deal LESS likely? The scuttlebutt is that the Cards want Travis to sign a long term deal and w/o it won't make the trade. But, if the Cards plan to draft a RB in round 1, then wouldn't they prefer the one-year Travis Henry loan (the "payment" being the dumping of Shelton and his $3 mil salary) while the new RB gets his NFL legs? If Travis plays well, then they can neg. a new deal OR use the new RB. whatever. Remember , Travis is C-H-E-A-P. A $1.25 mil backup RB is reasonable if the guy is any good at all - Henry is a one time pro bowler yada yada. Green MUST get rid of Shelton. The question is, what can he get for him? IS a 4th or worse pick in 2005 better than Travis straight up? Of course not. 270659[/snapback] You're assuming too much, If travis is traded without a contract extension, he is likely to sit out for a season and avoid injury. Cardinals aren't going to have that. He wants and needs to get an extension to be moved. You can say that TD can do what he wants because he owns TH, which I believe you are saying, but its not that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 I do think that he will come cheaper then both and that is why TD is targetting him -- he's a 2nd rate talent at 2nd rate dollars..... it is not "spamming" or "crusading" when i state an opinion on a player i have never commented on before....... 270676[/snapback] OK. So let's take a look at statement number one. Take a reeeeeal good look at it. Yes, you may not have commented SPECIFICALLY on Womack, but you have MORE THAN ENOUGH stated your OPINION that TD is CHEAP. Kind of obviates the need for statement two, doesn't it? Oh, and as far as not refuting your point goes, have you completely forgotten the round-and-round we had last week? Because we can always go there again, I'm game. TD is NOT going to mortgage the future of this franchise for one player. it's not going to happen. JJ didn't get paid "market value", he got OVER-PAID. Same with PW, who was old and not worth the dollars thown at him at age 32-33. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 OK. So let's take a look at statement number one. Take a reeeeeal good look at it. Yes, you may not have commented SPECIFICALLY on Womack, but you have MORE THAN ENOUGH stated your OPINION that TD is CHEAP. Kind of obviates the need for statement two, doesn't it? Oh, and as far as not refuting your point goes, have you completely forgotten the round-and-round we had last week? Because we can always go there again, I'm game. TD is NOT going to mortgage the future of this franchise for one player. it's not going to happen. JJ didn't get paid "market value", he got OVER-PAID. Same with PW, who was old and not worth the dollars thown at him at age 32-33. 270703[/snapback] look back over the past few weeks -- i have advocated the signing of kenrick vincent time and time again to be our starting LG.........he came CHEAP, yet i would have been very pleased if we did ink the guy........that goes to show you that just because we get a bargain does not mean i would disagree with the move......... in the case of womack, i don't like the idea of signing him over better available options.......in the case of vincent, i did like the idea of signing him over better available options........see how it's not all about the dollars? it's not all about TD being cheap? it's a valid opinion on womack and TD's intentions with the move........ like i said, if me posting an opinion on TD's moves bothers you so much just put me on ignore.........your wasting my time with your blind agreeance with every move he makes and i don't need to hear your "crusade".......the fact is he doesn't always do everything right and i'm well within my rights to call him out when he screws something up.......just like i did last year when he ignored the LG position and we suffered for it.......and i'll call him out again if he signs a career backup like womack over better available options.......why? because he's being cheap.......deal with it.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 You're assuming too much, If travis is traded without a contract extension, he is likely to sit out for a season and avoid injury. Cardinals aren't going to have that. He wants and needs to get an extension to be moved. You can say that TD can do what he wants because he owns TH, which I believe you are saying, but its not that simple. 270679[/snapback] Ahh! That would be a perfectly reasonable scenario for any RB of Travis' talent except you are forgetting one thing; Travis is rather - how shall put it? - "undisciplined" with his finances. - he can't afford to sit out. He signed the extension because he was in deep debt and needed more money. The extension was such a bargain I almost fainted when I first heard about it. Travis is trying to play hard ball with TD and Green but I am willing to betcha he's scared out of his mind that someone will call his bet. And guess what? TD (and Green too probably) know that Travis can't afford to sit out. He's holding a losing hand. Travis will play wherever he's sent (or not sent). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 look back over the past few weeks -- i have advocated the signing of kenrick vincent time and time again to be our starting LG.........he came CHEAP, yet i would have been very pleased if we did ink the guy........that goes to show you that just because we get a bargain does not mean i would disagree with the move......... in the case of womack, i don't like the idea of signing him over better available options.......in the case of vincent, i did like the idea of signing him over better available options........see how it's not all about the dollars? it's not all about TD being cheap? it's a valid opinion on womack and TD's intentions with the move........ like i said, if me posting an opinion on TD's moves bothers you so much just put me on ignore.........your wasting my time with your blind agreeance with every move he makes and i don't need to hear your "crusade".......the fact is he doesn't always do everything right and i'm well within my rights to call him out when he screws something up.......just like i did last year when he ignored the LG position and we suffered for it.......and i'll call him out again if he signs a career backup like womack over better available options.......why? because he's being cheap.......deal with it.......... 270719[/snapback] Q: have you watched film on Vincent and Womack? Can you say for sure that one is a better player than another? Can you say with 100% certainty that Vincent would have worked out better than Womack might? Or would it be wiser to leave that decision to the people who know what they're talking about? All your vetching and wailing about TD being cheap isn't going to change the FACT that he isn't. He's spent a king's ransom on making this defense what it is today. He threw bling at Bledsoe. He kept Moulds and Schoebel. Yes, you're well within your right to call him out. But at least try to be RIGHT when you do it. Throwing aroudn the accusation that he's cheap is just flat our wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsNYC Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Ahh! That would be a perfectly reasonable scenario for any RB of Travis' talent except you are forgetting one thing; Travis is rather - how shall put it? - "undisciplined" with his finances. - he can't afford to sit out. He signed the extension because he was in deep debt and needed more money. The extension was such a bargain I almost fainted when I first heard about it. Travis is trying to play hard ball with TD and Green but I am willing to betcha he's scared out of his mind that someone will call his bet. And guess what? TD (and Green too probably) know that Travis can't afford to sit out. He's holding a losing hand. Travis will play wherever he's sent (or not sent). 270722[/snapback] again..you're assuming too much. How do you know he hasn't properly invested after that? If not, why would travis play one more year at a low salary with the risk of injury on a poor team when he can hold out for much more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Q: have you watched film on Vincent and Womack? Can you say for sure that one is a better player than another? Can you say with 100% certainty that Vincent would have worked out better than Womack might? yes, i have watched vincent and womack play.........yes, if we are looking at a guard for our power running offense i can say that vincent would be a better fit then womack, and is certainly an upgrade over tucker/smith........yes, i can say with 100% certainty that vincent is the ideal guard for our system and would have been a great fit, much better then womack....... Or would it be wiser to leave that decision to the people who know what they're talking about? here we go again with the "don't question the managment" mantra and "they are never wrong" attitude........fact is they are wrong sometimes and i am allowed to disagree with what they do........i disagreed with ignoring the LG position last off-season, and who was right about that? TD or me?......if you want to be a sheep, go ahead, but i'm not and i'll voice that opinion........ All your vetching and wailing about TD being cheap isn't going to change the FACT that he isn't. He's spent a king's ransom on making this defense what it is today. He threw bling at Bledsoe. He kept Moulds and Schoebel. so why didn't we sign wahle? why didn't we sign rivera? why didn't we sign mayberry? why didn't we even look at any of them? do you honestly feel that womack is equal or better in talent to those 3? Yes, you're well within your right to call him out. But at least try to be RIGHT when you do it. Throwing aroudn the accusation that he's cheap is just flat our wrong. if he wasn't cheap he wouldn't be trying to get by with 2nd rate talent and "versitile" players who will battle it out in spring camp for starting positions.......he would be signing starters to man the position.......he is trying to do it the discount method and i don't agree........you do, but i'm hardly surprised at that.........he was cheap when it came to LG last year, and he's being cheap again.......sorry you hate to hear it, but it's the truth....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 yes, i have watched vincent and womack play.........yes, if we are looking at a guard for our power running offense i can say that vincent would be a better fit then womack, and is certainly an upgrade over tucker/smith........yes, i can say with 100% certainty that vincent is the ideal guard for our system and would have been a great fit, much better then womack....... Well then, I suggest you go straight to OBD and apply for the OL coaching position. </sarcasm> here we go again with the "don't question the managment" mantra and "they are never wrong" attitude........fact is they are wrong sometimes and i am allowed to disagree with what they do........i disagreed with ignoring the LG position last off-season, and who was right about that? TD or me?......if you want to be a sheep, go ahead, but i'm not and i'll voice that opinion........ Again, when I have I said TD was perfect? I hated the Drew Bledsoe acquisition and the GW coaching debacle. so why didn't we sign wahle? why didn't we sign rivera? why didn't we sign mayberry? why didn't we even look at any of them? do you honestly feel that womack is equal or better in talent to those 3? Mayberry is over 30. NEVER pay money for over 30 players, it's just stupid. And yes, that means Milloy and Troy Vincent, too. Didn't agree with those. But at the same time you can't overpay any one position, so AW had to go. if he wasn't cheap he wouldn't be trying to get by with 2nd rate talent and "versitile" players who will battle it out in spring camp for starting positions.............sorry you hate to hear it, but it's the truth....... You mean like the Paytoilets do with their OL of no one being higher than a 4th rounder are doing ti the "wrong" and "cheap" way? Right. Well, if you know more than Belichick, I suggest you fire up the old coaching resume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsNYC Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 FIGHT FIGHT!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 again..you're assuming too much. How do you know he hasn't properly invested after that? If not, why would travis play one more year at a low salary with the risk of injury on a poor team when he can hold out for much more? 270743[/snapback] Well, we are going to have to just agree to disagree You may be right but from what i have heard/observed I am of the opinion of if it walks like a duck...blah blah IF Travis hold out - then you will be proven right. If he plays under the current agreement then I get the swing If he signs a new Long Term contract for LOTS of money - you win again. If for low money ..me and if for medium money. Then we shake hands huh? -RnJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsNYC Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Well, we are going to have to just agree to disagree You may be right but from what i have heard/observed I am of the opinion of if it walks like a duck...blah blah IF Travis hold out - then you will be proven right. If he plays under the current agreement then I get the swing If he signs a new Long Term contract for LOTS of money - you win again. If for low money ..me and if for medium money. Then we shake hands huh? -RnJ 270767[/snapback] Cool... In the end I hope you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 You mean like the Paytoilets do with their OL of no one being higher than a 4th rounder are doing ti the "wrong" and "cheap" way? Right. Well, if you know more than Belichick, I suggest you fire up the old coaching resume. 270765[/snapback] the patriots.........the team that identified their good, young LT and locked him up on a long-term deal well in advance of his free agency...........defantiely not the "cheap" option, but they wanted to maintain continuity on their OL and did not want to lose a LT, so they hammered out a deal to keep him around........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 RNJ, My thoughts exactly. I said last week that if this deal with Arizona gets done, I am willing to bet TD gets a pick out of them instead of giving it to them. TD is def. in the driver's seat here (isn't he always ?) 270611[/snapback] yeah - TD drove that bus right over the cliff when he extended Drew last year to ride shot gun for him (too bad he couldn't run the shotgun). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Cool... In the end I hope you're right. 270773[/snapback] TSW - Kinder and Gentler Ver. 2.1 Now available everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 I don't see how a guy who got hurt the prior year and didn't play much, who's been hurt in most other years, who is not known for being a rocket scientist, who has a history of fumbling; can afford to sit out a year AND expect to get big $$ as a free agent. He needs to play to prove he's worth the bib bucks! You're assuming too much, If travis is traded without a contract extension, he is likely to sit out for a season and avoid injury. Cardinals aren't going to have that. He wants and needs to get an extension to be moved. You can say that TD can do what he wants because he owns TH, which I believe you are saying, but its not that simple. 270679[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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