FireChan Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) "Based around a QB" is the assumption you're making. The meetings were "based around finding a new HC", during those interviews it only makes sense you'd ask the candidates how they'd fix or develop the only QB on the roster at the time. This whole narrative about Whaley pushing EJ on people is false and completely lacking in context. "According to The Buffalo News, Whaley mentioned Manuel in recent coaching interviews and told candidates that progress had to be made in developing the young quarterback." He's not asking how, he's saying that they need to develop him. As in, it's a requirement. That's the definition of "pushing EJ on people (the HC candidates). Another quote. "Additionally, Whaley’s reportedly “made it clear” that he wants the team’s next coach to do more to develop Manuel." Continue to stick your heads in the sand. Whaley may see the light now, but he was hitching his wagon to EJ again after 2014. Edited December 9, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 "According to The Buffalo News, Whaley mentioned Manuel in recent coaching interviews and told candidates that progress had to be made in developing the young quarterback." He's not asking how, he's saying that they need to develop him. As in, it's a requirement. That's the definition of "pushing EJ on people (the HC candidates). ...Because at the time EJ was the only QB on the roster at that time. Did you expect him to push for developing a QB playing on another roster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) ...Because at the time EJ was the only QB on the roster at that time. Did you expect him to push for developing a QB playing on another roster? I wouldn't expect him to push for a QB who lost his job to a half retired Kyle Orton. That makes you a moron. We were probably saved by Rex Ryan becoming HC. Otherwise, we may have seen a sham Cassel vs. EJ camp fight, where EJ got the nod again until we went 1-5. The Bucs didn't push for "developing" Glennon when they hired Lovie. The VIkes didn't push for "developing" Ponder. Oakland didn't push for "developing" McGloin. Only the Bills made their sucky QB magically becoming good a job requirement. Edited December 9, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Whaley ran his HC interviews by talking to coaches about reclaiming EJM. See above. He did - there are accounts of that. Where are the accounts that he wanted EJ on the field when the coaches didn't because that was the claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I wouldn't expect him to push for a QB who lost his job to a half retired Kyle Orton. That makes you a moron. We were probably saved by Rex Ryan becoming HC. Otherwise, we may have seen a sham Cassel vs. EJ camp fight, where EJ got the nod again until we went 1-5. The Bucs didn't push for "developing" Glennon when they hired Lovie. The VIkes didn't push for "developing" Ponder. Oakland didn't push for "developing" McGloin. Only the Bills made their sucky QB magically becoming good a job requirement. "Push for a QB who lost his job to a half retired Kyle Orton" is different (and I argue didn't happen in the first place) than talking to head coaching candidates about how they'd develop and fix the only QB on the roster. To not talk about the ways in which said candidates would develop EJ, especially when he's the only guy at the position on the roster and the team had no first round pick in a year where the UFA class of QBs was supposedly weak, would be negligent. No one expected the Bills to find anyone better at the position as they headed into this past off season, figuring out a way to get more from EJ was at the time the most expedient way to get better overall as a team. Don't get spun, and spin is all there is on this subject. Context matters. Timing matters. And of course, remembering that you're getting all your info third hand from reporters. If Whaley were truly all in on EJ come Hell or highwater, there's zero chance they trade for Meh and bring in Taylor -- let alone run an open training camp competition. Whaley, if he was so invested in EJ (a guy he loved so much they traded down instead of picking him), would have stacked the QB competition deck in favor of EJ by bringing in a bunch of JAGs. But he didn't. Because Whaley isn't myopic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) "Push for a QB who lost his job to a half retired Kyle Orton" is different (and I argue didn't happen in the first place) than talking to head coaching candidates about how they'd develop and fix the only QB on the roster. To not talk about the ways in which said candidates would develop EJ, especially when he's the only guy at the position on the roster and the team had no first round pick in a year where the UFA class of QBs was supposedly weak, would be negligent. No one expected the Bills to find anyone better at the position as they headed into this past off season, figuring out a way to get more from EJ was at the time the most expedient way to get better overall as a team. Don't get spun, and spin is all there is on this subject. Context matters. Timing matters. And of course, remembering that you're getting all your info third hand from reporters. If Whaley were truly all in on EJ come Hell or highwater, there's zero chance they trade for Meh and bring in Taylor -- let alone run an open training camp competition. Whaley, if he was so invested in EJ (a guy he loved so much they traded down instead of picking him), would have stacked the QB competition deck in favor of EJ by bringing in a bunch of JAGs. But he didn't. Because Whaley isn't myopic. I mean, if we're gonna pretend that the reports from 3 different news sources are all wrong, why don't we just pretend that EJ won the job and looked great in camp? I don't think Whaley said that "EJ is for sure our starter and you're not hired if you don't think he's great." Don't lump me into the extreme of another side. I just don't see drafting a guy in the first round, believing he can be the future of the franchise, and then flip-flopping 2 years later and not caring who wins the job. Whaley isn't a robot, and is as prone to biases as any other human. To claim he has no attachment to EJ Manuel is as unlikely to me as claiming that Whaley is hell-bent on EJ working out. I believe Whaley would and could absolutely trade for the best possible back-up, and sign a throwaway guy (who TT was at the time), and still be thinking/hoping EJ would be the starter. The open QB competition is the coaches decision, not the GM's, no? 90 man vs 53 man and all that? Edited December 9, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I believe Whaley would and could absolutely trade for the best possible back-up, and sign a throwaway guy (who TT was at the time), and still be thinking/hoping EJ would be the starter. The open QB competition is the coaches decision, not the GM's, no? 90 man vs 53 man and all that? But you accept that is a leap from what we know to what you believe? We know Whaley talked to HC candidates about EJ but we don't know he wanted him on the field when the coaches didn't. If you had asked Whaley before OTAs "ideal world - who wins the job?" I think he'd have said EJ. But once the battle commenced I believe he just wanted whoever performed the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 But you accept that is a leap from what we know to what you believe? We know Whaley talked to HC candidates about EJ but we don't know he wanted him on the field when the coaches didn't. If you had asked Whaley before OTAs "ideal world - who wins the job?" I think he'd have said EJ. But once the battle commenced I believe he just wanted whoever performed the best. http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/08/17/as-bills-search-for-a-quarterback-tyrod-taylor-fever-is-spreading/ PITTSFORD — Excitement has been officially rebooted at the quarterback position at St. John Fisher College in the form of a 6-foot-1, 215-pound wild card. The moment he stepped through the tunnel on Monday, fans shouted his name. When practice ended, they shouted some more. Tyrod Taylor Fever is spreading — even the Buffalo Bills’ general manager is catching it. General manager Doug Whaley was a happy camper on Monday. “It’s a production-based business,” Whaley said. “He produced with the twos so we’re excited for him to get in there Thursday with the ones to see what he can do. Everybody knows what he can do with his feet. But I’m impressed with a couple of his throws. “He’s got everything you’re looking for. We just have to make sure he can produce when his time’s called.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I mean, if we're gonna pretend that the reports from 3 different news sources are all wrong, why don't we just pretend that EJ won the job and looked great in camp? I don't think Whaley said that "EJ is for sure our starter and you're not hired if you don't think he's great." Don't lump me into the extreme of another side. I just don't see drafting a guy in the first round, believing he can be the future of the franchise, and then flip-flopping 2 years later and not caring who wins the job. Whaley isn't a robot, and is as prone to biases as any other human. To claim he has no attachment to EJ Manuel is as unlikely to me as claiming that Whaley is hell-bent on EJ working out. I believe Whaley would and could absolutely trade for the best possible back-up, and sign a throwaway guy (who TT was at the time), and still be thinking/hoping EJ would be the starter. The open QB competition is the coaches decision, not the GM's, no? 90 man vs 53 man and all that? I'm not saying the reports were wrong, I'm saying they were spun. Including the two letters "EJ" in your copy is/was the quickest way to gin up interest and clicks on your story. Who was more controversial than the team's first round QB who had fallen on his face in back-to-back years? What better way to stir up the fans' interest/blood pressure than to mention Whaley wants a HC who can develop EJ? None of the reports say he was married to EJ or that EJ was the only QB Whaley was interested in developing/working with (and I'm not trying to argue that's your belief either) -- because that just isn't true. And, in order for the narrative that "Whaley pushed EJ on all the HC candidates" to be accurate that would have to be true. No question ego plays a role in every personnel decision made by any NFL GM. These guys are all competitive, they all want to win and be the best GM in the league. There's also no question that it would have been far easier/better for Whaley had EJ developed into a bonafide NFL starter this season. But I'll restate this again because it often gets forgotten: setting aside the fact Whaley wasn't in the big boy chair when the EJ pick was made, if Whaley was so certain EJ was the guy why would he trade down in round one and risk losing out on EJ in the first place? That single move showed me that the scouts at OBD didn't have EJ in the "can't miss" category. Using your own logic, why would that feeling suddenly change for Whaley? Why would he be convinced in '15 that EJ is now a can't miss guy when he didn't feel that way on draft day? His first two seasons in the league couldn't have bolstered EJ's stock, right? So there's no reason for Whaley to think that, let alone run the team like that. Whaley knows that the only way to secure his job is to win. That's it. He's shown a willingness to be aggressive when it makes the team better, I have seen no evidence from his personnel moves that he'd allow ego to trump putting the best roster together than he possibly can. EJ included. I find it much more likely that a small portion of the interview process -- namely talking about how to improve the only QB on the roster at the time -- was blown out of proportion by the press hungry for clicks and the fans ate it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I'm not saying the reports were wrong, I'm saying they were spun. Including the two letters "EJ" in your copy is/was the quickest way to gin up interest and clicks on your story. Who was more controversial than the team's first round QB who had fallen on his face in back-to-back years? What better way to stir up the fans' interest/blood pressure than to mention Whaley wants a HC who can develop EJ? None of the reports say he was married to EJ or that EJ was the only QB Whaley was interested in developing/working with (and I'm not trying to argue that's your belief either) -- because that just isn't true. And, in order for the narrative that "Whaley pushed EJ on all the HC candidates" to be accurate that would have to be true. No question ego plays a role in every personnel decision made by any NFL GM. These guys are all competitive, they all want to win and be the best GM in the league. There's also no question that it would have been far easier/better for Whaley had EJ developed into a bonafide NFL starter this season. But I'll restate this again because it often gets forgotten: setting aside the fact Whaley wasn't in the big boy chair when the EJ pick was made, if Whaley was so certain EJ was the guy why would he trade down in round one and risk losing out on EJ in the first place? That single move showed me that the scouts at OBD didn't have EJ in the "can't miss" category. Using your own logic, why would that feeling suddenly change for Whaley? Why would he be convinced in '15 that EJ is now a can't miss guy when he didn't feel that way on draft day? His first two seasons in the league couldn't have bolstered EJ's stock, right? So there's no reason for Whaley to think that, let alone run the team like that. Whaley knows that the only way to secure his job is to win. That's it. He's shown a willingness to be aggressive when it makes the team better, I have seen no evidence from his personnel moves that he'd allow ego to trump putting the best roster together than he possibly can. EJ included. I find it much more likely that a small portion of the interview process -- namely talking about how to improve the only QB on the roster at the time -- was blown out of proportion by the press hungry for clicks and the fans ate it up. Because he traded down doesn't change that he still invested a 1st round pick in him. Maybe he didn't love him enough to trade up for him. But he loved him enough to invest in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) @PFF #Bucs RB Doug Martin is set to hit free agency at the end of the season, along with these 9 other offensive stars. http://goo.gl/C3dTQt The 2016 free agent group isn’t the most balanced one, but as we look at the 10 top offensive players about to cash in, it’s easy to see where the strength of this “class” lies. While there are a few QBs hitting the free agent market (Kirk Cousins, Sam Bradford, and Brock Osweiler), their grades and overall season performance don’t quite stack up on a positional basis, compared to the 10 players listed below. 2. Cordy Glenn, LT, Bills (88.7) Forever under the radar, the former second-round pick is destined to cash in with a big deal next year after a season that has only served to highlight how talented he is. Allowing just one sack and 16 quarterback disruptions, Glenn has never been the best of run blockers, but he’s what you’d love to have in a left tackle. 9. Richie Incognito, G, Bills (91.6) One of the comeback stories of the year, none of us are qualified to examine the incidents that led to Incognito taking an enforced year sabbatical, or whether he can stay out of off-field controversies. But we are qualified to say that Incognito, at 31 years of age, is playing the best football of his career, and has plenty of good moments on the field ahead of him. Edited December 10, 2015 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Because he traded down doesn't change that he still invested a 1st round pick in him. Maybe he didn't love him enough to trade up for him. But he loved him enough to invest in him. Sure, that's absolutely true. But this is where the narrative gets crazy for me. Whaley didn't love EJ enough to be certain he was a can't-miss-prospect (that's clear) -- but two years later, after watching him flounder at the NFL level, Whaley suddenly loves him enough to focus the entire coaching search around finding someone who was willing to commit to making EJ work no matter what? That doesn't add up at all for me, which is why I find that specific line of thinking to be nothing but spin and hype. It's more likely (to me) that because EJ was the only QB on the roster at the time of the interviews, a portion of each interview was about how to get the most out of that position -- that is very different than Doug demanding it's EJ or the highway, which is how some people are trying to spin it. One's due diligence, the other is myopic to the point of madness. It doesn't add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts