The Oline, coaches and schemes, offensive identity

[Big Blitz]

This can't be overstated enough. The offense was designed for EJ. Not Kyle Orton.

 

Meaning...they implemented a conservative approach/game plan. Dumbed everything down for "slow eyes." Think all the calls to throw to the RB or TE in the flat. And an emphasis on run run and run for 2 yards again and again. It's fine if you can run the ball with success but we cant. And Hackett is not adjusting.

 

There are rarely any 4 wide sets. For 2 reasons. EJ. And the oline was not trusted. No time to throw unless we max protect or are able to go play action.

 

 

If Hackett is worth anything he will recognize that Orton has to be able to pass to set up the run. Not the other way around.

 

 

Constantly being in 3rd and 8 after 2 failed runs or holding calls is killing us. Dlines are just teeing off. And we have NO screen game which that alone should be a fireable offense with these weapons.

 

Being successful through the air early can back teams off. More 3 or 4 wide sets can lead to more nickel coverage and better opportunities for Spiller.

 

This can be done but our OC needs to get his head out of his rear.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Big Blitz

[bowery4]

I can agree with most of this, decent thoughts. I would like different looks in the run game more pro set and other things I mentioned earlier. I have a problem with running a shotgun with just one back for a few reasons but mostly it is personell not fitting it. This why I mentioned a mid season training camp to install different looks and play options.

This can't be overstated enough. The offense was designed for EJ. Not Kyle Orton.

 

Meaning...they implemented a conservative approach/game plan. Dumbed everything down for "slow eyes." Think all the calls to throw to the RB or TE in the flat. And an emphasis on run run and run for 2 yards again and again. It's fine if you can run the ball with success but we cant. And Hackett is not adjusting.

 

There are rarely any 4 wide sets. For 2 reasons. EJ. And the oline was not trusted. No time to throw unless we max protect or are able to go play action.

 

 

If Hackett is worth anything he will recognize that Orton has to be able to pass to set up the run. Not the other way around.

 

 

Constantly being in 3rd and 8 after 2 failed runs or holding calls is killing us. Dlines are just teeing off. And we have NO screen game which that alone should be a fireable offense with these weapons.

 

Being successful through the air early can back teams off. More 3 or 4 wide sets can lead to more nickel coverage and better opportunities for Spiller.

 

This can be done but our OC needs to get his head out of his rear.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Pop Warner: first and foremost I did a wiki search for Pop because he was a hella guy here's a link. http://en.wikipedia....n_Scobey_Warner, and yes he started little league teams and I know that is where most of you are coming from when you use his name but really, it is sad to hear people say Pop Warner in a derogatory sense. The man had quite a career and gave us

the screen pass,spiral punt,single- and double-wing formations, the use of shoulder and thigh pads.

so please stop doing that.

I was an offensive guard in Pop Warner and played a variety of positions in HS (but didn't start much lol and eventually quit to join wresting and swimming teams, I was small, what can I say). I did learn a lot and understood basic concepts (and have been learning ever since by fandom and boards etc. such as this one here). My Pop Warner team won a championship though and was undefeated. We ran both single and double wings (something Hackett would be really smart to look at IMHO as NFL defenses are not built the right way to defend that these days and it is a running game philosophy).

 

Second: I have been reading a lot on here about our Oline and spread formations and blocking assignments. Quite a few people have the idea that we are a straight ahead man blocking scheme and not a zone scheme. I watched the line play carefully on Sunday because I had heard either Maroon or someone from the Bills last year and they said we were using zone blocking scheme. I really wanted to verify it through plays I watched and have come to the conclusion that we are in fact, a zone blocking scheme (even if it doesn't look that much like one for a few other reasons I will get to later).

 

We play sort of the opposite of a spread offense, so it is harder to see the zone assignments. Our line the TEs and sometimes the WRs are all really pretty close together (bunched). In the passing game this has advantages in some ways and a liability in others. One way it has advantages is we don't need super good pass blocking guards as the inside gaps are smaller (and they don't have to be able to move their hips as well). Also, they can be assumed to be slower than normal because they just don't have as much space to travel to, or fall back to.

 

But this also is why our offense is not good at or trying to use the screen pass (unless it is a WR bubble screen, which the WRs and TE would be the main blockers on) so much, and you probably won't see many sweeps or jet sweeps. You need fast or at least not slow guards to do that. This is also why Spiller up the middle besides his inability to see the hole, isn't working and why people say he has no space. He really doesn't that often, NFL LBs are big and fast for the most part and they "back up" the line, they obviously have an easier time inside against our line, (less space to cover) this is also why teams hide players on delayed blitzes and stunting and have success with it.

 

In the run game this also has advantages and pitfalls. If your line is slow delays happen slower and it takes a good degree of patience (or even Fred Jackson slowness ) for your RBs to hit the hole but it is smaller and filled faster. As mentioned above, with our liabilities with guards you can't have them leading outside blocking on pulls. The advantage is straight up push your guy back blocking (which explains in theory why we prefer big guys there.

 

So, that brings me to my third point: the Chan' spread and CJ and Oline play with that when it was a spread zone scheme. Our line used to be smaller and faster and Fitz was an excellent reader of Ds (which from what I have seen of Orton in his career is also the case and maybe one of EJs least desirable non attributes at this point in time). Both Orton and Fitz are good at getting the ball out quick (sometimes). But what I am thinking about most here is that the team made up for some weaknesses by using the spread with a zone scheme.

 

With a quick reader you can adjust the play to the weak links in a D. If you have a weapon like Spiller you can use him in the seams that are created by the spreading of the field. As most people on here acknowledge and recognize. Of course in that system you need deep threats or the D will just all line up in the box and you have fewer openings (which is part of why it is called a horizontal scheme). And why Chan was figured out. The dunk and dink only works if you have guys who can take the ball home from 20 yards out (in most schemes but it is harder to get guys there in a spread, especially with a weak Oline). Actually, that is true about both the bunch and the spread, no time for a QB is hard to mask as a weakness, you need to be able to sustain and progress to 2nd levels with your line. Spiller had an advantage here because our WRs in Chan's scheme were very good blockers for 2nd and 3rd level runs.

 

So all of this leads me to our staff. We have a problem, a weak Oline is killing us. We are not adjusting the scheme to meet our players strengths and I am not sure we are built to do so. We also have a guard who is a tackle (and both are just giant kind of slow men), not a fit for shorter Dline men....we can't get leverage. We are not balanced in our play calling or successful in it and the game plans don't seem flexible. The calls are predictable and it is only game 7 coming up. I kind of see what they wanted to do but they don't seem to have a back up plan. Good teams are and can and will take advantage. Firering Hackett now seems unreasonable (since we are mid season). Most of us can see the problems but we don't have confidence that HCDM and OCNH are going to fix them. I also kind of hated Schwartzy's, Wanny imitation with our secondary and Dline last week.

 

Blowing up the coaching might be the only option or not. It is a tough thing for a new owner to inherit, I don't think it is a GM problem so much (or front office at this point). I think there are creative ways to help the situation but don't think our coaches are up to it and we may not have some of the personnel to deal with it. But they should certainly try! I can see we are at a weaker part of our schedule, we need a mid-season training camp sort of, to implement some other stuff, we look way too obvious and predictable at this point, this needs fixing or heads will roll.

 

In a lot of ways, it's not that hard. We need to have our play-makers on the field (god I have been hoping for CJ and Fred on the field together more since we got CJ!) and they need the ball, a lot. We need even the situational players to have plays for them that our weak links can execute. The coaches need to get real and creative or their time here is done.

 

Have I mentioned, I love this team and hope for the best still yet? This needs attention, we definitely need to space out our Oline and the zone scheme might need to totally go. But it is a large part of what is wrong.

 

 

WOW that means our Guards really suck.

 

Very well written and informative post.

 

Maybe Schwartz will bring in Chan to OC.

[KOKBILLS]

 

 

 

WOW that means our Guards really suck.

 

Very well written and informative post.

 

Maybe Schwartz will bring in Chan to OC.

 

Schwartz and Chan! Be still my beating heart...

 

Good greif...