Fezmid Posted January 5, 2005 Author Share Posted January 5, 2005 Excellent post AKC. Regarding Pittsburgh's OL, the announcers did mention it from time to time at least, even into the 3rd and 4th qtr. Nobody heaped the credit on them, but it was at least mentioned. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Excellent post AKC. Regarding Pittsburgh's OL, the announcers did mention it from time to time at least, even into the 3rd and 4th qtr. Nobody heaped the credit on them, but it was at least mentioned. CW 194814[/snapback] Probably my subconscious refusal to allow Randy Cross to drive me nuts by listening to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted January 5, 2005 Author Share Posted January 5, 2005 Probably my subconscious refusal to allow Randy Cross to drive me nuts by listening to him. 194817[/snapback] Trust me, you're a better man for it. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ1 Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 because not a single one of the owners would understand the game of football well enough to grasp that the QB is no more important a player on the field than the other 10 guys who play with him on offense at any time 'QB is no more important a player on the field than the other 10 guys who play with him on offense at any time' One of the most foolish assertions ever offered on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_in_Indiana Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 BF, now toy are making sense but remember, I posted that to you because you stated that Bledsoe is "not a good NFL qb." Sorry, I just don't buy that statement in the literal sense. 194802[/snapback] Well I'm always willing to back things up if asked, and I do not think he is a good NFL QB. I was a big Drew supporter until this season. Mike Mularkey was able to make Kordell Stewart play like a top NFL QB and Drew has a great coaching staff around him now, I'm just not sure I saw a lot of improvement from him over the course of the season. This weeks game was typical Drew. He did not give him team a chance to win through his bonehead mistakes and bad throws. If you are playing the Bengals, Browns, Cardinals, or 49er's he's lights out, but put a real defense on the field with him and he's a no show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 One of the most foolish assertions ever offered on this board. 194824[/snapback] That's profound. Perhaps you'd like to offer some reasoning behind why you consider it "foolish"? Or perhaps I can guess- "The Quarterback has to be the most important player on the field because he touches the ball every play." And let me further deduce that you leave the waiter HUGE tips when you go out to eat becasue he is, after all , the one bringing you the food every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_in_Indiana Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 That's profound. Perhaps you'd like to offer some reasoning behind why you consider it "foolish"? Or perhaps I can guess- "The Quarterback has to be the most important player on the field because he touches the ball every play." And let me further deduce that you leave the waiter HUGE tips when you go out to eat becasue he is, after all , the one bringing you the food every time. 194831[/snapback] QB is the most important position on the football field, no doubt about it. Look at every team in the playoffs. NFC- Favre, Culpepper, Hasslebeck, McNbabb, Vick, Bulger AFC- Manning, Brees, Pennington, Ben, Brady, Plummer With the exception of Brees, Big Ben, and Plummer I think every one of those guys is a top notch QB. I can't put Brees and Ben in there because this is the first year we have seen anything from them and Plummer is an average QB. To get to the playoffs you have to have solid play from the quarterback position. Drew does not cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 QB is the most important position on the football field, no doubt about it. Look at every team in the playoffs. NFC- Favre, Culpepper, Hasslebeck, McNbabb, Vick, Bulger AFC- Manning, Brees, Pennington, Ben, Brady, Plummer With the exception of Brees, Big Ben, and Plummer I think every one of those guys is a top notch QB. I can't put Brees and Ben in there because this is the first year we have seen anything from them and Plummer is an average QB. To get to the playoffs you have to have solid play from the quarterback position. Drew does not cut it. 194849[/snapback] So you believe Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Doug Williams, Kurt Warner and Mark Rypien were the most important players on their Super Bowl winning football teams? And there was a question attached to the post you referenced- WHY do you believe the QB is the most important player on a football team? Just 5 or 6 reasons would be helpful for me to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 So you believe Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Doug Williams, Kurt Warner and Mark Rypien were the most important players on their Super Bowl winning football teams? 194852[/snapback] That wasn't obvious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Within the mix of a football team, or for this discussion the 11 players on offense, there is no one position that is more important than the other 10. 194787[/snapback] Since you responded to my post with the same statement I questioned to begin with, I'll ask again and a simple yes or no will suffice. No need to ramble on for several paragraphs that isn't needed. I'm using the same word you used "important"... Manning more important to the Colt offense than Tupe Peko...YES or NO Vick more important to Atlanta offense than Dez White...YES or NO Culpepper more important to the Minnesota offense than Bryant McKinnie...YES or NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_in_Indiana Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 So you believe Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Doug Williams, Kurt Warner and Mark Rypien were the most important players on their Super Bowl winning football teams? And there was a question attached to the post you referenced- WHY do you believe the QB is the most important player on a football team? Just 5 or 6 reasons would be helpful for me to understand. 194852[/snapback] Yes I believe they were and here's why. Jeff Hostetler was very good at managing a game. Trent Dilfer was very good at managing the game. Doug Williams was very good at managing the game. Warner made that offense go with lights out play for that couple of seasons. Mark Rypien was a one year wonder, I agree with you on that. The quarterback position and the importance of it doesn't always have to do with stats. Hos did a great job of managing things and leaving it up to the Giant defense. He didn't try to play outside his abilities because he didn't have to. The same thing goes for Dilfer. You have to have a smart player behind center or you won't win. Trent Green puts up great numbers for the Kansas City Chiefs but I don't think they will ever win the Super Bowl with him at quarterback. He tries to play outside of his abilities a lot of times and you won't win the Super Bowl with a QB that does that. It's all about decision making, and that's why the QB decision is most important to a football decision. If you have a quarterback that makes good decisions with the ball you will be successful, if you have one that doesn't you won't. Drew has some pretty good career STATS but that's all they are is stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Trent Green puts up great numbers for the Kansas City Chiefs but I don't think they will ever win the Super Bowl with him at quarterback. He tries to play outside of his abilities a lot of times and you won't win the Super Bowl with a QB that does that. 194866[/snapback] Yeah, Trent Green wouldn't win if swapped one for one with Tom Brady. Right. KC isn't a good team and will never win a Super Bowl because their defense is the equivalent of Cleveland's offense (with McCown under center). Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_in_Indiana Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Yeah, Trent Green wouldn't win if swapped one for one with Tom Brady. Right. KC isn't a good team and will never win a Super Bowl because their defense is the equivalent of Cleveland's offense (with McCown under center). Period. 194867[/snapback] I don't think he would, that's just my opinion. Look at every quarterback that's won a Super Bowl. I-II: Bart Starr (HOF) III: Joe Namath (HOF) IV: Len Dawson (HOF) V: John Unitas (HOF) VI, XII: Roger Staubach (HOF) VII-VIII: Bob Greise (HOF) IX, X, XIII, XIV: Terry Bradshaw (HOF) XI: Ken Stabler (HOF) XV, XVIII: Jim Plunkett XVI, XIX, XXIII, XXIV: Joe Montana (HOF) XVII: Joe Theisman XX: Jim McMahon XXI: Phil Simms XXII: Doug Williams XXV: Jeff Hostetler XXVI: Mark Rypien XXVII-XXVIII, XXX: Troy Aikman (future HOF) XXIX: Steve Young (future HOF) XXXI: Brett Favre (future HOF) XXXII-XXXIII: John Elway (HOF) XXXIV: Kurt Warner (NFL MVP) XXXV: Trent Dilfer XXXVI, XXXVIII: Tom Brady (future HOF) XXXVII: Brad Johnson Look at that list. I think Jim Plunkett is in the HOF but I'm not sure so I didn't list him as such. 10 Quarterbacks that aren't HOFer's have won the Super Bowl (including Plunket in the 10). Every other Super Bowl has been won by a HOF or future HOF quarterback. That's no coincidence Darin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 I don't think he would, that's just my opinion. Look at every quarterback that's won a Super Bowl. I-II: Bart Starr (HOF) III: Joe Namath (HOF) IV: Len Dawson (HOF) V: John Unitas (HOF) VI, XII: Roger Staubach (HOF) VII-VIII: Bob Greise (HOF) IX, X, XIII, XIV: Terry Bradshaw (HOF) XI: Ken Stabler (HOF) XV, XVIII: Jim Plunkett XVI, XIX, XXIII, XXIV: Joe Montana (HOF) XVII: Joe Theisman XX: Jim McMahon XXI: Phil Simms XXII: Doug Williams XXV: Jeff Hostetler XXVI: Mark Rypien XXVII-XXVIII, XXX: Troy Aikman (future HOF) XXIX: Steve Young (future HOF) XXXI: Brett Favre (future HOF) XXXII-XXXIII: John Elway (HOF) XXXIV: Kurt Warner (NFL MVP) XXXV: Trent Dilfer XXXVI, XXXVIII: Tom Brady (future HOF) XXXVII: Brad Johnson Look at that list. I think Jim Plunkett is in the HOF but I'm not sure so I didn't list him as such. 10 Quarterbacks that aren't HOFer's have won the Super Bowl (including Plunket in the 10). Every other Super Bowl has been won by a HOF or future HOF quarterback. That's no coincidence Darin. 194872[/snapback] Plunkett is not in the HOF, nor is Kenny Stabler. With the exception of Brady (TBD) and possibly Favre (Reggie White), each HOF QB on that list is (or likely will be) joined by MULTIPLE teammates in Canton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 So you believe Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Doug Williams, Kurt Warner and Mark Rypien were the most important players on their Super Bowl winning football teams? And there was a question attached to the post you referenced- WHY do you believe the QB is the most important player on a football team? Just 5 or 6 reasons would be helpful for me to understand. 194852[/snapback] Look, any player who touches the ball every play AND turns the ball over repeatedly is probably the most important determinative of his team's success. When the Bills won six straight, Bledsoe was for the most part protecting the ball. Before then, and in the Steelers game, Bledsoe committed stupid, game-changing turnovers. MOULDS DIDN'T. Mmkay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Look, any player who touches the ball every play AND turns the ball over repeatedly is probably the most important determinative of his team's success. When the Bills won six straight, Bledsoe was for the most part protecting the ball. Before then, and in the Steelers game, Bledsoe committed stupid, game-changing turnovers. MOULDS DIDN'T. Mmkay? 194881[/snapback] Nah, he just dropped passes that could have extended drives which could have ended in points. Plenty of blame to go around.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted January 6, 2005 Author Share Posted January 6, 2005 Look, any player who touches the ball every play AND turns the ball over repeatedly is probably the most important determinative of his team's success. When the Bills won six straight, Bledsoe was for the most part protecting the ball. Before then, and in the Steelers game, Bledsoe committed stupid, game-changing turnovers. MOULDS DIDN'T. Mmkay? 194881[/snapback] Moulds fumbled the ball on the 5-10 yard line against the Jaguars. Does that mean he was single-handedly responsible for losing that game, like Bledsoe is (allegedly) single-handedly responsible for losing the Steelers game? CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Moulds fumbled the ball on the 5-10 yard line against the Jaguars. Does that mean he was single-handedly responsible for losing that game, like Bledsoe is (allegedly) single-handedly responsible for losing the Steelers game? CW 194884[/snapback] Or the fumble on the first play of the Fish playoff game that we lost? Ah, never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Again, no one is saying Moulds shouldn't share blame. Who is saying that? But, if you want to talk about consistency in terms of protecting the ball, Bledsoe simply lacks it - I would not put Moulds in that category (although I would be interested to know what Moulds' fumble-per-touch ratio is, compared to Bledsoe's fumble/INT-per-touch ratio). You want a good analysis of Bledsoe's stats? Check out www.footballoutsiders.com . They rate ALL of the QBs in the league in weighted effiency (weighted according to how that QB performed in a given situation as compared to every other QB in the league in the same situation. Here are the QB rankings: http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb.php You'll notice that Bledsoe is listed 21st overall. And here's what the writer for "Snap Judgment" (who also writes for Football Outsiders) has to say about Bledsoe and his 21st ranking (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=snap/week17/rankings): "To use a reference as dated as Bledsoe's career: "You are the weakest link. Goodbye." This team has the defense and running game to go 11-5 next year, but they need to find out if J.P. Losman can be Tom Brady. " Here are the rankings from 2003: http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2003.php Bledsoe was ranked 30th overall. (Incidentally, they have WR rankings as well - http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr.php - which rank WRs according to points scored per touches in situations compared to all other receivers - Moulds was ranked 45th, below Lee Evans at 15). The writers on this site repeatedly bash Bledsoe for his lack of production in comparison to other starting QBs around the league. Writers all over the country (Len Pasquarelli being one) have noticed Bledsoe's poor mechanics in "big games" (including the Steelers game - check out his "Morning After" article from Monday). Donahoe himself acknowledged in his "Ask Donahoe" segment that the offense needs to become more efficient, especially on 3rd down. Oh, and Donahoe also aggressively traded up into the first round to get a quarterback, just in case Bledsoe's struggles last season could not be corrected by the new coaching staff (why else would they have drafted JP? Bledsoe is neither old nor injury-prone?). Finally, a point about your "crusade" term - it is one thing to get annoyed by repeated posts on the same topic, or "thread busters" or what have you. I suspect, however, that your real issue is that you (you know who you are) don't agree with the Bledsoe bashers. I know that's the case, actually, because you never hesitate to chime in with a flippant put-down of anyone who criticizes Bledsoe. That's fine - that's your opinion. But if you ask me you're on just as much of a crusade as anyone else, and the fact that you're a wise-ass about your comments makes you all the more annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 And let me further deduce that you leave the waiter HUGE tips when you go out to eat becasue he is, after all , the one bringing you the food every time. 194831[/snapback] If the waiter keeps dropping the food on the way over, or delivering it to the wrong table, I sure-as-sh#t don't blame the chef or the valet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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