Trade down angle...

[jjmac]

If he's the guy they want then why wouldn't they ensure they get him by picking him at ten? If the Bills feel like the guy they want will be there later in the draft then why is he the guy they want?

 

Sure. By trading down, you avoid the cries of "Reach!"

[smapdi]

What you described is what you want Upshaw to be, BUT you didn't describe the actual player.

 

If Upshaw were what you described than yes it is a no brainer.

 

To put it in terms most Bills fans should understand, he probably isn't going to be a 9 sack a year guy, like Cornelius Bennett.

 

He is likely a great all around backer like Daryl Talley or some where in between.

 

Which is still a great player.

 

Just don't expect a Terrel Suggs. TAMBA HALI type of player.

 

I think that is just Upshaw's floor; a Talley type LB. I really do think he can turn into a Suggs like player within 2-3 years.

 

I posted this in another thread:

 

 

Alabama's defense faced the fewest snaps of any defense among the top pass rushing prospects by a significant amount. There were simply less plays and less pass rushing situations for Upshaw to really get after the QB.

 

Still, he finishes 2nd in all of college football in negative plays per snap (Sacks & tackles for loss). That sounds like the disruptive player we need at LB.

 

Sammy Brown ( 1045 - 13.5 sacks / 30TFL) - 1 sack / 77.4 - 1 TFL / 34.83 snaps - 1 neg play / 24.02 snaps

 

Upshaw (720 snaps 10 sacks / 18TFL ) 1 sack/ 72 snaps - 1 TFL/40 snaps - 1 negative play/ 25.7 snaps

 

Vinny Curry ( 930 - 11 sacks / 22 TFL) 1 sack / 84.54 - 1 TFL / 42.27 - 1 neg play / 28.18 snaps

 

Mercilus (842 snaps 16 sacks / 22.5) 1 sack/ 52.6 snaps - 1 TFL/37.42 snaps - 1 negative play / 29.54 snaps

 

Melvin Ingram (835 snaps - 10 sacks/ 15 TFL) 1 sack / 83.5 snaps - 1 TFL/ 55.67 - I neg play / 33.4 snaps

 

Andre Branch ( 986 - 10.5 sacks / 17 TFL) 1 sack / 93.9 snaps - 1 TFL / 58 snaps - 1 neg play / 35.85 snaps

 

Nick Perry (826 snaps - 9.5 sacks / 13 TFL) 1 sack / 86.94 snaps - 1 TFL / 63.5 - 1 neg play / 36.71

 

Quinton Coples ( 907 snaps - 7.5 sacks / 15 TFL) 1 sack / 120.93 - 1 TFL / 60.47 - 1 neg play / 40.31 snaps

 

- not my work. Taken from another Bills MB. compliments of admarc. Just thought I would share this with you guys to give you an idea of how these guys stack up.

 

Simply put, Upshaw had way less opportunities to get after the QB due to the high caliber of the defense he was a part of. Alabama only faced 720 snaps. Compare that to UNC's 907 or Illinois' 842. Yet, Upshaw was still able to be a disruptive force finishing 2nd among the elite prospects in this draft in disruptive plays.

Edited January 19, 2012 by ShhitGoose

[jjmac]

I think that is just Upshaw's floor; a Talley type LB. I really do think he can turn into a Suggs like player within 2-3 years.

 

I posted this in another thread:

 

 

Alabama's defense faced the fewest snaps of any defense among the top pass rushing prospects by a significant amount. There were simply less plays and less pass rushing situations for Upshaw to really get after the QB.

 

Still, he finishes 2nd in all of college football in negative plays per snap (Sacks & tackles for loss). That sounds like the disruptive player we need at LB.

 

Sammy Brown ( 1045 - 13.5 sacks / 30TFL) - 1 sack / 77.4 - 1 TFL / 34.83 snaps - 1 neg play / 24.02 snaps

 

Upshaw (720 snaps 10 sacks / 18TFL ) 1 sack/ 72 snaps - 1 TFL/40 snaps - 1 negative play/ 25.7 snaps

 

Vinny Curry ( 930 - 11 sacks / 22 TFL) 1 sack / 84.54 - 1 TFL / 42.27 - 1 neg play / 28.18 snaps

 

Mercilus (842 snaps 16 sacks / 22.5) 1 sack/ 52.6 snaps - 1 TFL/37.42 snaps - 1 negative play / 29.54 snaps

 

Melvin Ingram (835 snaps - 10 sacks/ 15 TFL) 1 sack / 83.5 snaps - 1 TFL/ 55.67 - I neg play / 33.4 snaps

 

Andre Branch ( 986 - 10.5 sacks / 17 TFL) 1 sack / 93.9 snaps - 1 TFL / 58 snaps - 1 neg play / 35.85 snaps

 

Nick Perry (826 snaps - 9.5 sacks / 13 TFL) 1 sack / 86.94 snaps - 1 TFL / 63.5 - 1 neg play / 36.71

 

Quinton Coples ( 907 snaps - 7.5 sacks / 15 TFL) 1 sack / 120.93 - 1 TFL / 60.47 - 1 neg play / 40.31 snaps

 

- not my work. Taken from another Bills MB. compliments of admarc. Just thought I would share this with you guys to give you an idea of how these guys stack up.

 

Simply put, Upshaw had way less opportunities to get after the QB due to the high caliber of the defense he was a part of. Alabama only faced 720 snaps. Compare that to UNC's 907 or Illinois' 842. Yet, Upshaw was still able to be a disruptive force finishing 2nd among the elite prospects in this draft in disruptive plays.

 

But should we transition to a 4-3, what is his role here?

[1B4IDie]

I think that is just Upshaw's floor; a Talley type LB. I really do think he can turn into a Suggs like player within 2-3 years.

 

I posted this in another thread:

 

 

Alabama's defense faced the fewest snaps of any defense among the top pass rushing prospects by a significant amount. There were simply less plays and less pass rushing situations for Upshaw to really get after the QB.

 

Still, he finishes 2nd in all of college football in negative plays per snap (Sacks & tackles for loss). That sounds like the disruptive player we need at LB.

 

Sammy Brown ( 1045 - 13.5 sacks / 30TFL) - 1 sack / 77.4 - 1 TFL / 34.83 snaps - 1 neg play / 24.02 snaps

 

Upshaw (720 snaps 10 sacks / 18TFL ) 1 sack/ 72 snaps - 1 TFL/40 snaps - 1 negative play/ 25.7 snaps

 

Vinny Curry ( 930 - 11 sacks / 22 TFL) 1 sack / 84.54 - 1 TFL / 42.27 - 1 neg play / 28.18 snaps

 

Mercilus (842 snaps 16 sacks / 22.5) 1 sack/ 52.6 snaps - 1 TFL/37.42 snaps - 1 negative play / 29.54 snaps

 

Melvin Ingram (835 snaps - 10 sacks/ 15 TFL) 1 sack / 83.5 snaps - 1 TFL/ 55.67 - I neg play / 33.4 snaps

 

Andre Branch ( 986 - 10.5 sacks / 17 TFL) 1 sack / 93.9 snaps - 1 TFL / 58 snaps - 1 neg play / 35.85 snaps

 

Nick Perry (826 snaps - 9.5 sacks / 13 TFL) 1 sack / 86.94 snaps - 1 TFL / 63.5 - 1 neg play / 36.71

 

Quinton Coples ( 907 snaps - 7.5 sacks / 15 TFL) 1 sack / 120.93 - 1 TFL / 60.47 - 1 neg play / 40.31 snaps

 

- not my work. Taken from another Bills MB. compliments of admarc. Just thought I would share this with you guys to give you an idea of how these guys stack up.

 

Simply put, Upshaw had way less opportunities to get after the QB due to the high caliber of the defense he was a part of. Alabama only faced 720 snaps. Compare that to UNC's 907 or Illinois' 842. Yet, Upshaw was still able to be a disruptive force finishing 2nd among the elite prospects in this draft in disruptive plays.

 

Where did admarc get this from.

 

This is some good stuff.

 

A LB playing behind the LoS on a regular basis is exactly what the Bills need.

 

I like Upshaw even more.

[smapdi]

Where did admarc get this from.

 

This is some good stuff.

 

A LB playing behind the LoS on a regular basis is exactly what the Bills need.

 

I like Upshaw even more.

 

He is one of the best message board posters I've run across in my nearly 10 years of posting on Bills boards. He has an incredible wealth of knowledge relating to the draft.

 

I believe he did all this work by hand if I'm not mistaken. Another poster got the ball rolling by pointing out that Alabama faced the fewest snaps (720) by a wide margin and he went ahead and crunched the numbers for the rest of the top tier prospects.

 

I give him all the credit for this excellent breakdown. Just thought I would share it with you guys so you could really see how these guys stack up. I don't think Upshaw should be penalized in some poster's eyes because he played on a such a dominant defense that the opportunities were just not there compared to some of these other guys

[PDaDdy]

Not sure if anyone brought this up but with the 10th pick we'll have a shot at the last "top tier" OT in this draft--either Reiff or Martin. Though neither appears to be a franchise tackle who would garner a big haul, the laws of supply and demand put us in a good spot. Is there a team drafting mid-round or a tad later who might get antsy (that's the key) and trade up? If so, we can still nab either Upshaw or Ingram and pick up another pick. If that happens, do you think we score an extra 2nd or 3rd? Either way, we get a player we need in the 1st and an additional "free" quality player. Let the bashing begin!!!!

 

As a franchise we don't trade down. Buddy Nix doesn't trade down. Chances we will trade down = 0%.

 

A Franchise with this many holes drafting as early as we are we take a top tier player before the drop off. Of course this is all based on speculation but we have so many needs you get the best guy you can as early as you can. Gambling that we could get an Upshaw or another potential day 1 starter a little later and pick up an draft pick is an insane risk.

Edited January 19, 2012 by PDaDdy

[smapdi]

But should we transition to a 4-3, what is his role here?

 

I think we could still plug him in at strong side OLB and be good if we went to the 4-3. You could also let him line up as DE on 3rd down in the 4-3; he has the size and athleticism to take on OT's. Just watch some tape on him. He routinely went against OT's and was able to disengage and make a play.

[jjmac]

I think we could still plug him in at strong side OLB and be good if we went to the 4-3. You could also let him line up as DE on 3rd down in the 4-3; he has the size and athleticism to take on OT's. Just watch some tape on him. He routinely went against OT's and was able to disengage and make a play.

 

My concern would be that he has made his mark as an attack-the-backfield guy. I haven't seen much of him in pass coverage, and I just don't know how much 4-3 DE he can play.

[PDaDdy]

Upshaw looks like a gamer and we did pretty well with Darues. Roll Tide! That being said why do some people seem down on Quentin Coples? The guy has ridiculous size, length and athleticism. I am not a college guy but he looked like the only guy North Carolina had on defense at times. Everything changes after the combine but wouldn't we be lucky as hell to have a 6'6" 285 3-4 DE fall to us?

 

Upshaw played for Sabin so he should be ready to go but he is a 3-4 OLB. If we are going to be running as much or even more 4-3 this year wouldn't it make some sense to consider a guy who is actually a 4-3 DE and looks like a freakin' monster?

[jjmac]

Upshaw looks like a gamer and we did pretty well with Darues. Roll Tide! That being said why do some people seem down on Quentin Coples? The guy has ridiculous size, length and athleticism. I am not a college guy but he looked like the only guy North Carolina had on defense at times. Everything changes after the combine but wouldn't we be lucky as hell to have a 6'6" 285 3-4 DE fall to us?

 

Upshaw played for Sabin so he should be ready to go but he is a 3-4 OLB. If we are going to be running as much or even more 4-3 this year wouldn't it make some sense to consider a guy who is actually a 4-3 DE and looks like a freakin' monster?

 

People are down on Coples because of an alleged character issue and he looks like he takes plays off.

Edited January 19, 2012 by jjmac

[H2o]

Do you think he is going to be a 3-4 DE or a 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 DE?

 

There has only been 1 Bruuuuuuuce in the history of the NFL and there will probably never be another.

 

To put it into context Bruce Smith was like the Wayne Gretzky or Jerry Rice of 3-4 DEs no one will ever touch or come close to his sack numbers from the 3-4 DE position not to mention what he did to stop the run.

 

No D-Co would scheme to allow a 3-4 DE the opportunity to break Smith's sack record even if they somehow found another freak of nature, determined, athlete like Bruce.

 

So there will never be another Bruuuuuce but there will be guys that can get sacks as 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE.

 

I just don't know what Mercilus projects better at. . . .

 

If you're saying Mercilus is a 3-4 DE then, yeah I'd pass for Upshaw.

I'm saying Mercilus is a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 OLB. He will get to the QB and when he gets his hands on people he has a knack for making them lose the ball. We don't really need a 3-4 DE. Wanny is a 4-3 guy and I think we will be running a 4-3 for the most part. Mercilus is a RDE and can play standing up as an OLB as well. He has good speed for the position, strength, quickness, and makes plays behind the line of scrimmage. I'm not saying he IS Bruce Smith, but he could be the closest thing we've seen to him as far as sacks and on field production since his departure.

[PDaDdy]

People are down on Coples because of an alleged character issue and he looks like he takes plays off.

 

I'm not decided yet as there is plenty of time before the combine. That sounds pretty nit picky to me. If the alleged character issues, depending on what they were, were confirmed maybe it matters. Taking plays off gets thrown around a lot by people who have their own pet player that they are talking up while running another down.

 

Again I am no college expert but conditioning, motivation, team culture and coaching can easily quell any fears of those admittedly "alleged" issues. His size and athleticism seem undeniable if the guy runs a 4.7, 4.6 40 and displays all the other measurables you like to see at the combine I would consider us lucky to get him.

 

I like Upshaw as well and actually dvr'd the Alabama, LSU game and watched his play. I'm sure we would be fine with either and lean towards Saban and Alabama a little but I just don't get the hate for Coples.

[jjmac]

I'm not decided yet as there is plenty of time before the combine. That sounds pretty nit picky to me. If the alleged character issues, depending on what they were, were confirmed maybe it matters. Taking plays off gets thrown around a lot by people who have their own pet player that they are talking up while running another down.

 

Again I am no college expert but conditioning, motivation, team culture and coaching can easily quell any fears of those admittedly "alleged" issues. His size and athleticism seem undeniable if the guy runs a 4.7, 4.6 40 and displays all the other measurables you like to see at the combine I would consider us lucky to get him.

 

I like Upshaw as well and actually dvr'd the Alabama, LSU game and watched his play. I'm sure we would be fine with either and lean towards Saban and Alabama a little but I just don't get the hate for Coples.

 

I think it may have to do with the investigation and why they have a new coach. I don't know. I'm sure he will be scouted thoroughly. Whether or not we take him depends on what kind of defense we play next year.