OT: The Greates rapper ever does it again

[Guest Guest]

woah woah woah. sweet child of mine...

 

Rap and Hip Hop are different things completely.

 

Tupac rapped. He did not produce Hip Hop.

162378[/snapback]

see my above post, it was meant for you too.

rap and hip hop are two seperate things, now.

wasnt always such a big diference

[mary owen]

I dont idolize him for what he does in his personal life. But he is a major media icon and the founder of what RAP is today. He is the biggest there has ever been and will ever be. He has sold the most records (by the millions more) than any other hip-hop/rapper ever .... and no one is even CLOSE to hitting his mark. Since he dies 7 years ago, he has still came out with 3 more albums each with 3+ or more #1 songs on each one. He is also the author of 2 full length poetry books. The stuff he writes is absolutely amazing. Infact PRINCETON and HARVARD both now have courses on TUPAC and his writings. Look it up.

 

I idolize him for his rapping ability and his amazing lyrics. Not for his gang involvements.

163283[/snapback]

 

 

There are plenty of college coarses that are extremely ridiculous. from "P0rn 101" to "How to fold napkins with you penis".

 

the founder of what Rap is today? there's something to be proud of. How many times has $0.50 been shot? See the Vibe Awards lately? gimme a break. what Rap is about today is how criminally involved you can be, who's a$$ you can wack and get away with, how many b!tches and ho's you can bang, who you can publicly disgrace, which gang you were raised by, your arrest record, street cred, etc....the list goes on.

 

How about Run DMC? how about them getting some credit for being the "founders".

 

Oh yeah, that's right one of them did get killed outside a recording studio. So, I guess it took them a while, but they have reclaimed top honors of what Rap is all about.

[daquixers]

well, luckily, im not from Buffalo, im from philidelphia, and they know just a little about rap and hip hp and r&b there.

yeah, there is a difference betwen rap and hip hop, i was trying to avoid getting that far into it here.

but the rap that Tupac and Biggie made was the last before there were such drastic lines drawn between rap (which is now just commercial music, catchy beat, no talent, dance club sh--) and hip hop(the actual musical form of rap)

Tupac and Biggie made Hip hop, back then.

 

and it was more of his dealing with both the crips and being signed to a bloods label tat got him shot, by his "best friend" Suge Knight

I have a really good book called "LAbrynth" about the LAPD's lack of investigation into his death and all the payoffs and cops who are in gangs and stuff

 

also, i even said i thought Biggie is the greatest ever, Tupac's up there, his work is really good, but i just like Rakim better, my opinion, thats all

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I know the entire story man. I have loved Tupac since I first heard of him. But Im not going to go into the entire storylyine with Sugar Knight .... how his Deathrow meddalion was stole and Tupac got into fight after the Tyson fight ... etc - people hear dont know the story so I just made it short and simple. I love em.

 

And your entitled to your opinion. I think you may just be my favorite poster that has ever posted on here, because I respect you a lot. I enjoy your view. I personally think Tupac is heads and shoulders above everyone else. It seems like Biggie's stuff is all commercial "Biggie, Biggie, Biggie, your so fine, your so fine you blow my mind." - thats what everyone thinks of when you hear him because it is constantly being played. Tupac had so many smash hits that his greatest hits album might as well just be his 6-7 CD's stuck together in a package. Every song kicked ass.

 

I think Rahkim is good also. Top 3. But I dont think his lyrics were as good as Tupac's and neither (IMO) were Biggies. All the beats are uniform for all 3 rappers and I ejoy them all. Its the lyrics that differentiate rappers and Tupac was the best WRITER of all time (in my opinion.)

[daquixers]

see my above post, it was meant for you too.

rap and hip hop are two seperate things, now.

wasnt always such a big diference

163287[/snapback]

 

100% correct ... what we NOW know as hip-hop is crap - hip hop in early 90's was totally different.

 

If Tupac, or Biggie could hear what they consider rap these days, they would roll over in their graves.

[daquixers]

There are plenty of college coarses that are extremely ridiculous. from "P0rn 101" to "How to fold napkins with you penis".

 

the founder of what Rap is today? there's something to be proud of. How many times has $0.50 been shot? See the Vibe Awards lately? gimme a break. what Rap is about today is how criminally involved you can be, who's a$$ you can wack and get away with, how many b!tches and ho's you can bang, who you can publicly disgrace, which gang you were raised by, your arrest record, street cred, etc....the list goes on.

 

How about Run DMC? how about them getting some credit for being the "founders".

 

Oh yeah, that's right one of them did get killed outside a recording studio. So, I guess it took them a while, but they have reclaimed top honors of what Rap is all about.

163299[/snapback]

 

Sir. I dont know what you mean. Can you remember back in the early 90's. Cant you remember how extremely popular Tupac was. He could have went anywhere at anytime and gotten anything he wanted. He would put out CD's at random and the requests would just poor in. By 1991, Tupac sold 25 million albums ... and since then he has tripled that .... maybe you just dont remember???

 

Thus why I laugh when the pre-teenies (12-15) say talk about how .50 cent is so popular. What we consider "popular" these days is nothing compared to how popular Tupac was in the early 90's. I just laugh and say look up "greatest rapper ever" on google.com and see what comes up every time.

[Guest Tupac's Mom]

100% correct ... what we NOW know as hip-hop is crap - hip hop in early 90's was totally different.

 

If Tupac, or Biggie could hear what they consider rap these days, they would roll over in their graves.

163517[/snapback]

 

 

actually, hip hop is live and kickin under the radar, its rap that is a sleezy whore shuckin-and jivin for the man

 

but yeah, much respect

 

save yourself a headache and stay outta the rap is not music or whatever thread

[Guest Tupac's Mom]

and Tupac was the best WRITER, you are correct on that

[daquixers]

actually, hip hop is live and kickin under the radar, its rap that is a sleezy whore shuckin-and jivin for the man

 

but yeah, much respect

 

save yourself a headache and stay outta the rap is not music or whatever thread

163529[/snapback]

 

I stayed FARRR away from that thread.

[Guest Tupac's Mom]

for some good laughs at illogical argueing, refer to pages 4-7 of that thread

 

its actually pretty good, and i think im proud of what i wrote actually

[IBTG81]

Tupac spelled backwards is Caput.

[Guest Tupacs Mom]

3. Overweight Americans sit nicely on their couch while other places get ripped apart...

 

 

163650[/snapback]

 

 

Tupac spelled backwards is Caput.

163679[/snapback]

 

 

AHAHAHAHA, ahh, in all this argueing, the zen of this thread

 

very good, very very good

[YOOOOOO]

Sir. I dont know what you mean. Can you remember back in the early 90's. Cant you remember how extremely popular Tupac was. He could have went anywhere at anytime and gotten anything he wanted. He would put out CD's at random and the requests would just poor in. By 1991, Tupac sold 25 million albums ... and since then he has tripled that .... maybe you just dont remember???

 

Thus why I laugh when the pre-teenies (12-15) say talk about how .50 cent is so popular. What we consider "popular" these days is nothing compared to how popular Tupac was in the early 90's. I just laugh and say look up "greatest rapper ever" on google.com and see what comes up every time.

163521[/snapback]

 

 

Not sure what your talkin about but Tupac didnt sell 25,000 albums in 1991, in fact his first 3 albums didnt sell a combined 10million....All Eyes on Me sold well before he died, and was his first pop success, but it tripled sales after he was gundowned and murdered in Sept. of 96.......it wasnt til after he died that his albums sold....

 

His 8 albums combined have sold a total of 26.5million copies, which made him the most successful rapper of all time(until recently when JayZ out sold him, with his last album totals)...

[mary owen]

Sir. I dont know what you mean. Can you remember back in the early 90's. Cant you remember how extremely popular Tupac was. He could have went anywhere at anytime and gotten anything he wanted. He would put out CD's at random and the requests would just poor in. By 1991, Tupac sold 25 million albums ... and since then he has tripled that .... maybe you just dont remember???

 

Thus why I laugh when the pre-teenies (12-15) say talk about how .50 cent is so popular. What we consider "popular" these days is nothing compared to how popular Tupac was in the early 90's. I just laugh and say look up "greatest rapper ever" on google.com and see what comes up every time.

163521[/snapback]

 

i'm not arguing how many albums he sold, stiff or breathing. what I am talking about is why he is so idolized and what Rap is about today. It ain't about being musically gifted or talented. It's about all the other sh--. Why???? College courses??? I laugh my a$$ off at that. what a waste. ask any successful person what acedemic background they have (minus any Rock or entertainment star) and I'll bet you don't see "Tupac - gangster 101" as a major. how silly.

[daquixers]

Not sure what your talkin about but Tupac didnt sell 25,000 albums in 1991, in fact his first 3 albums didnt sell a combined 10million....All Eyes on Me sold well before he died, and was his first pop success, but it tripled sales after he was gundowned and murdered in Sept. of 96.......it wasnt til after he died that his albums sold....

 

His 8 albums combined have sold a total of 26.5million copies, which made him the most successful rapper of all time(until recently when JayZ out sold him, with his last album totals)...

163770[/snapback]

 

What are YOU talking about. His first 3 years in the business (1990-1993) he sold 6,000,000 albums ... another 6,000,000 before he died in 1996 ...

 

Since then he has sold ANOTHER 32,000,000 ...

[Alaska Darin]

What are YOU talking about. His first 3 years in the business (1990-1993) he sold 6,000,000 albums ... another 6,000,000 before he died in 1996 ...

 

Since then he has sold ANOTHER 32,000,000 ...

164735[/snapback]

Proof that he's better dead than alive. As if we needed proof.

[daquixers]

Proof that he's better dead than alive.  As if we needed proof.

164750[/snapback]

 

Why do you say that? Thats disgusting. There are very few people I would wish dead ......... and Rudyc80 is on that list of a few people.

[Alaska Darin]

Why do you say that? Thats disgusting. There are very few people I would wish dead ......... and Rudyc80 is on that list of a few people.

164904[/snapback]

Yeah, because you know him.

[Guest Tub Thumper]

The question I always have for people who talk about how good a rapper is or isn't is, how do you know? I've never gotten a cogent answer.

 

By what standard do you judge a rapper?

 

I took my daughter to see an artist I met on one of my gigs who also teaches at one of the local universities. She wanted him to assess her artistic talent. The lesson she came away with was that it wasn't about talent as much as it was about doing the work to develop certain skills to be able to achieve a level of visual believability. As he put it, "it's not so much what you draw, paint, or whatever as it is how WELL you draw, paint or whatever."

 

As a musician, I may or may not like what I hear a guy play, but I can tell if the guy can play or if he's just bullsh**tting. You can tell why a thing works with the public even if you know it's a bunch of crap on just about every level. And you can tell why something doesn't work when it's well put together.

 

If I say I like a song or performance or act, that's a matter of taste. If I say a song or performance or act is good, I can generally tell you what I'm hearing that makes it good. The more superlative my praise, the more I'm going to come up with concrete performance factors that support the praise. Otherwise, I'm just like the squares out there who want to crown their favorite mediocre warbler as the second-coming and give you a lot of fan magazine crap, or record sales, or vague pseudo-spiritual mumbo jumbo as support.

 

So again, how do you know if a rapper is great - or even good?

[Guest Guest]

The question I always have for people who talk about how good a rapper is or isn't is, how do you know?  I've never gotten a cogent answer.

 

By what standard do you judge a rapper? 

 

I took my daughter to see an artist I met on one of my gigs who also teaches at one of the local universities.  She wanted him to assess her artistic talent.  The lesson she came away with was that it wasn't about talent as much as it was about doing the work to develop certain skills to be able to achieve a level of visual believability.  As he put it, "it's not so much what you draw, paint, or whatever as it is how WELL you draw, paint or whatever." 

 

As a musician, I may or may not like what I hear a guy play, but I can tell if the guy can play or if he's just bullsh**tting.  You can tell why a thing works with the public even if you know it's a bunch of crap on just about every level.  And you can tell why something doesn't work when it's well put together. 

 

If I say I like a song or performance or act, that's a matter of taste.  If I say a song or performance or act is good, I can generally tell you what I'm hearing that makes it good.  The more superlative my praise, the more I'm going to come up with concrete performance factors that support the praise.  Otherwise, I'm just like the squares out there who want to crown their favorite mediocre warbler as the second-coming and give you a lot of fan magazine crap, or record sales, or vague pseudo-spiritual mumbo jumbo as support.

 

So again, how do you know if a rapper is great - or even good?

164953[/snapback]

 

in all seriousness, ive never had to define a rubric which MCs are to be judged by but here goes...

 

First off, I'll start with "VOCAL TONE" - just like a singer, an MC uses his voice. If someone's voice is completely unlistenable = bad MC. Also, having a distinct vocal tone is a big plus. Method Man has a voice that when you hear him speak, you recognize immediately as Method Man. Notorious BIG was in the same boat. It's almost impossible to duplicate their voices, a lot of people have tried to sound like Biggie, but no one can match it.

 

"FLOW" meaning the rhythm or cadence that the lyrics follow. This is where an MC like Eminem shines. He uses a lot of synchopation where the lyrics tend to "bounce". On which count the "rhymed" word is spoken. Sometimes its not the end of the line that rhymes, maybe the begining, or maybe its on "3". The way you lyrically flow words and sentences together. GZA from Wu-tang is so creative with his flows that he has songs where there is not one rhyme, but he's able to keep the song bouncing by knowing when to speak or when not to.

 

That brings us to "CONTENT". A criteria that is often overlooked and over-shadowed by "FLOW" and "VOCAL TONE" and can be masked by "PRODUCTION".

(im not going to talk about production meaning= beats/background music, since we're discussing "rappers", and good production has been used to mask bad MCs)

"CONTENT" can refer to having a message (like Tupac) or creativity (like Aesop Rock whose lyrics border on abstract). Redman uses a lot of creative similies and references things in pop-culture a lot of people do not think to use. Also, we've all heard "Mercedes Benz" rhymed with "Ends" a million times, you have to come up with new rhymes, that is part of Kanye West's appeal

 

"Good" or "Great" MC's have combined at least all three of these.

Tupac was a poet at heart, what stands him apart is his "CONTENT", but without a good "FLOW" and "VOCAL TONE", he'd just be that guy on the sidewalk writing poems for quarters.

Method Man was born with a distinct "VOCAL TONE", but his "FLOWS" are some of the finest (you have to have rhythm to rap btw), and his "CONTENT" is always interesting.

and GZA can "FLOW" anything bt you have to be able to listen to him and he has to be able to come up with something interesting to say.

 

(side note: a lot of the criteria has to do with being hard to duplicate, in a genre where all the "ol foggies" say they just steal music, its sort of overlooked because its the vocals that take precidence. In judging strictly the MC, the beat should be dropped all together, and accapella, he should be able to stand out)

[Guest Tupac's Mom]

^^^yeah, that was me, work is slow