Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Are you talking about the young fans that leave WNY in droves every year so they can get a decent job and afford a house with less than $6000 a year in taxes attached to it? Dude, there may be high taxes on a house in WNY, but overall house prices are WAY lower in Buffalo than anywhere else I've looked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weehawk Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Sure. I realize that. Problem is that even with lower avg house prices, the kids are still leaving. With no jobs it doesn't matter how low the home prices are. Also, a lot of those "lower priced" homes are in areas that I wouldn't let my dog live in. Dude, there may be high taxes on a house in WNY, but overall house prices are WAY lower in Buffalo than anywhere else I've looked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Those 1950s Cape Cod shacks are looking pretty derelict these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 There's an even bigger problem with RWS that would be impossible to fix...the tunnels. What idiot thought making a concourse about 20 feet wide was enough room for 20,000 people? Try to get a beer or go to the bathroom at halftime in the 100 level. Let's hope they never have evacuate the stadium. It would be ugly. PTR Most stadiums built as far back as the Ralph were are the same. At the time they were built people weren't the supersized versions they are now. It's not so much the tunnel as it is the people; people have gotten bigger in general and outside of that they have gotten fatter too. People take up more space than they used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Ralphie Stadium and Arrowhead are close to being twins... both were built by the same company... (Arrowhead's architect/builder ended up merging to become HNTB, the company that built the stadium in Orchard Park). Arrowhead was built in 1972, Rich Stadium the following year. Each was built with 80,000 seats, the classic oval-shaped, football-only facility... a nice diversion from the multi-sport toilet bowl crap they were building in Cincinnati, Philly and Pittsburgh. Why not see how the Arrowhead renovation is going... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weehawk Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Fans at Saturday's Texans-Chiefs preseason game at Arrowhead Stadium "will get to see the first" 70% of what will end up being a $375M renovation of the venue, according to Matt Campbell of the K.C. STAR. Chiefs President Denny Thum: "I think they'll see the 'wow factor' of Arrowhead Stadium." The "most noticeable improvements are two new high-definition score/video boards that are football-shaped." There is also a "new LED ribbon board encircling the stadium interior." Chiefs officials said that the ring of honor around the stadium bowl that "highlighted great Chiefs players of the past is gone, but the players will be remembered in the ribbon board display." The floodlights on the north side of the stadium "have been enhanced," and the new sound system is "state-of-the-art." Concourses "have been expanded from an average of 25 feet to an average of 40 feet" in width. The stadium now "will be 1.62 million square feet, or 443,000 square feet larger than it used to be." The Chiefs' "main aim in updating their stadium is to provide more space and more amenities." For men, there is a 36% "increase in restroom facilities," while for women, there is a 96% increase. There are "81 more concession points of sale." The total seating capacity "has been reduced by about 2,000 and will top out next year at 77,187." The number of premium suites has "increased and the existing ones have deepened" (K.C. STAR, 8/14). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 You're right, to an extent. However, more bathrooms and concessions will thin out the crowds to a more manageable level. Currently, everyone is bunched up due to the lack of properly spaced out bathrooms and stands. Increase those and you thin out the tunnel mayhem at halftime. You dont eliminate it, but you do improve upon it. As far an an evacuation goes, I wouldnt want to see that at ANY NFL stadium. 60k+ people rushing to an exit will mean death for some of them. I disagree. The mayhem comes from people heading in different directions like atoms in some kind of nuclear reaction. 20,000 people heading for a beer, a piss, a smoke, two sections over to see their buddy, etc. Having more bathrooms and concessions doesn't change the fact that 20,000 people are trying to fit into a narrow tunnel at the same time. Also, where do you find room for more bathrooms and concessions? Those tunnels are underground and digging out puts you under the clubs and upper deck. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weehawk Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Ok. Apparently, that problem can be solved though, since KC has done it by expanding 25 ft walkways into 40 footers as part of their $375 million renovation. We dont need a new stadium. We need a renovation like GB or KC to keep the NFL (and Bills fans) happy. It can be done for less than half the cost of a new stadium and the tailgaters get to keep the parking lots. Problem is, I dont see where the money is going to come from to pay for even a modest renovation project. If anyone expects Schumer to help us, they are delusional. RW wont pay for it, so that leaves the eventual new owner to pay for it probably in combo with new taxes. I just dont see it happening. The NFL can threaten us all they want, but if there's no money, what are you going to do? I disagree. The mayhem comes from people heading in different directions like atoms in some kind of nuclear reaction. 20,000 people heading for a beer, a piss, a smoke, two sections over to see their buddy, etc. Having more bathrooms and concessions doesn't change the fact that 20,000 people are trying to fit into a narrow tunnel at the same time. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Ok. Apparently, that problem can be solved though, since KC has done it by expanding 25 ft walkways into 40 footers as part of their $375 million renovation. We dont need a new stadium. We need a renovation like GB or KC to keep the NFL (and Bills fans) happy. It can be done for less than half the cost of a new stadium and the tailgaters get to keep the parking lots. Problem is, I dont see where the money is going to come from to pay for even a modest renovation project. If anyone expects Schumer to help us, they are delusional. RW wont pay for it, so that leaves the eventual new owner to pay for it probably in combo with new taxes. I just dont see it happening. The NFL can threaten us all they want, but if there's no money, what are you going to do? Without knowing how Arrowhead is built it's a big leap to assume what they are doing can be done at RWS. They are not the same buildings. Oh, to answer your question what happens if we don't improve RWS? The team goes to L.A....to a brand new palace of a stadium. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weehawk Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Well, if that's the case then enjoy them while you can. The team has a lot going against it right now: 1) Lousy team 2) New, unproven staff 3) Questionable ownership after RWs demise 4) Stadium issues 5) Low ticket prices resulting in lower revenues 6) Terrible corporate base 7) NFL labor issues that could seriously hurt small market teams The Bills are not alone. Several teams have these same issues and they all cant move. JAX has a modern stadium and they might leave anyway. OAK has many of these same problems too. I'm just saying that it's not only about the stadium. There are a lot of negative variables that have this team in a bad place right now. A new stadium wont help. Without knowing how Arrowhead is built it's a big leap to assume what they are doing can be done at RWS. They are not the same buildings. Oh, to answer your question what happens if we don't improve RWS? The team goes to L.A....to a brand new palace of a stadium. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHNNYFAIRPLAY Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Are you talking about the young fans that leave WNY in droves every year so they can get a decent job and afford a house with less than $6000 a year in taxes attached to it? If you're banking the future of the area on people under 30, you're not keeping up with current events. While RWS is far from the NFLs best, it is also far from the worst. Ever been to Candlestick Park for a 49ers game? Now that's a crap hole and it's in one of the so-called best cities in the world. RWS is utilitarian. However, it also gets ranked as one of the best in the league for tailgating. Considering the team has been crap for a decade, tailgating is about all anyone has to look forward to at these games and it's why attendance has remained stable. A new stadium does nothing but make the game-day experience more comfortable, especially for the corporate fat cats and not so much for the "young fans." However, it does nothing to improve the team. I'd take RWS and the playoffs any day over a new stadium and more 6-10 seasons. If you're looking for state-of-the-art anything in Buffalo, you need to get out of WNY. It just aint happenin now or in the future. sighhhhhhhhhhhhhh as soon as I read this. Yes, RWS is utilitarian, which is basically my problem with it. I noticed you did not address my points to Miami and Tennessee. I can care less about tailgating and hanging with the likes of dirtbags like yourself. I like to party with my own crew before near a place cleaner than a SuperMax Shower Unit...ie, the parking lot. I go to games to watch football, and the more comfortable the better. Im not about the tailgate going on in the parking lot, Im about the game thats being played on the field, how comfortable my seat is whilst Im watching, how accessable and clean the concessions and bathrooms are, and how well posted information as to what else is going on around the league is. Partying "DirtBag Style" at a facility that was built exactly for that and promotes that type of behavior, has no draw for me. and PS, yes I've been to Candlestick, its not pretty, but it there's two things it does have over RWS, 1. I didnt feel like I should have been wearing an orange jumpsuit with NYSDOC on the back. and 2. It wasnt in the middle of a field with garbage housing and highway around it...yeah, OP is no prize (nobody's ever told those residents that). IM OUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBaroo Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 this is to all those young bucks out here who want a new stadium to be like every other city. i whole heartedly disagree for multiple reasons. the first, we have one of hte oldest AFC stadiums left and it be nice to maintain it and every 10 or 15 years give it a big rehab like Soldier or LAmbeau field. 2nd, it be nice once RW is passed on to rename it Rich STadium the way it was and is and should always be. Finally, the seating arrangement. no where else in the NFL (or very fewp laces) can people like everyone on here afford good seats and good tickets and be on top of the action. Have you guys been to these new stadiums? It costs an arm an a leg to get decently close (ie not below the third tier). When the bills and jets both sucked in 2008 i still had to spend 200 total for 50 yard line seats in the 2nd tier at the meadowlands. that place is a crap hole.... the browns stadium, eagles, ravens, bengals, etc - they are all the same. ive ben to them - they look and feel the exactly same. sure, the upper bowls are closer to the field then the ralph, but thats the ONLY place the average fan can afford to sit. luxury boxes take up all the great seats that we still have thankfully. so do club suites. and any time you build a new stadium prices go up, and our area can't continue to sell out games at an avg ticket price of 75/per. WE need to be smart about this and take some pride in Rich stadium. this is the article that says it best (and he hates buffalo as we all know): http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story.../partone/081121 That was one great article to read. Especially the part about the games sucking to be at now. I actually thought I was in heaven when the power went out at that game a few years ago. No TV timeouts!! Especially the score, to, kickoff, to thing!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weehawk Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Yes, please stay out. Douche. sighhhhhhhhhhhhhh as soon as I read this. Yes, RWS is utilitarian, which is basically my problem with it. I noticed you did not address my points to Miami and Tennessee. I can care less about tailgating and hanging with the likes of dirtbags like yourself. I like to party with my own crew before near a place cleaner than a SuperMax Shower Unit...ie, the parking lot. I go to games to watch football, and the more comfortable the better. Im not about the tailgate going on in the parking lot, Im about the game thats being played on the field, how comfortable my seat is whilst Im watching, how accessable and clean the concessions and bathrooms are, and how well posted information as to what else is going on around the league is. Partying "DirtBag Style" at a facility that was built exactly for that and promotes that type of behavior, has no draw for me. and PS, yes I've been to Candlestick, its not pretty, but it there's two things it does have over RWS, 1. I didnt feel like I should have been wearing an orange jumpsuit with NYSDOC on the back. and 2. It wasnt in the middle of a field with garbage housing and highway around it...yeah, OP is no prize (nobody's ever told those residents that). IM OUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBaroo Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 im fine with the current stadium and I will continue to go to games there. Totally agreed and it is why I will also always prefer Fenway Park to any version of some new ballpark esp. new Yankee stadium. I am not saying RWS is anything like Fenway in terms of tradition but they are both utilitarian places that make for a good viewing experience for an average fan with a few dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 the simmons article is exactly why I'm not a Michigan football fan. The atmosphere at the big house is so pathetic I won't even attend the stadium anymore. how 100k of people can't create a home field advantage is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Also, having been to So Cal lately and seeing how HUGE it is, it's a foregone conclusin there will be a team there. Even if it's a lukewarm response, it isn't gonna be hard to get 70+ thousand out to a stadium. See: New York. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills(70) Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 If Buffalo is to keep an NFL franchise here it needs a dome stadium. You are not maximizing the potential use of the stadium if its not a dome in this climate. You would see the Super Bowl in Buffalo with a dome stadium, pure and simple, even if the Bills aren't in it. Unfortunately, no one is going to build a dome stadium in Buffalo since the region is still downsizing population wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxelRipper Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 sighhhhhhhhhhhhhh as soon as I read this. Yes, RWS is utilitarian, which is basically my problem with it. I noticed you did not address my points to Miami and Tennessee. I can care less about tailgating and hanging with the likes of dirtbags like yourself. I like to party with my own crew before near a place cleaner than a SuperMax Shower Unit...ie, the parking lot. I go to games to watch football, and the more comfortable the better. Im not about the tailgate going on in the parking lot, Im about the game thats being played on the field, how comfortable my seat is whilst Im watching, how accessable and clean the concessions and bathrooms are, and how well posted information as to what else is going on around the league is. Partying "DirtBag Style" at a facility that was built exactly for that and promotes that type of behavior, has no draw for me. and PS, yes I've been to Candlestick, its not pretty, but it there's two things it does have over RWS, 1. I didnt feel like I should have been wearing an orange jumpsuit with NYSDOC on the back. and 2. It wasnt in the middle of a field with garbage housing and highway around it...yeah, OP is no prize (nobody's ever told those residents that). IM OUT you want to watch the game in total comfort with no wait or cleanliness problems? stay home. also, a domed stadium is just not right. sure, there are only 2-3 games where you can notice a difference in the playing conditions other than on kickoffs, but in domes something just doesnt seem right. they need to be outside. plus even if we were to try to get the superbowl, theres no way we could put enough money down to bring it here... though if we find enough money to dome the ralph, there would be a way for that im sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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