MattM

"The Catch"? That's funny--no one outside the Pats* fans have any problems at all with that play. As for your pally, 4th and One, I see he still can't read--late in the game (i.e., late in the 4th quarter), not sometime in the third quarter. There's a reason I ask the question the way I do (related to the fact that if there was a fix in that's far the most likely time you'd see evidence of it), which we've gone over ad infinitum before, so no need to do so again here, as it's a waste of both our times. As for how New England came, up he noticed my Bills hat and said "you don't see many of those around here", which I agreed with. We started talking football generally and he said how tough it would be to play in the AFCE, which I also agreed with, and how tough the Patriots* were, which I agreed with, and then he mentioned how them going undefeated that year was aided, however, by the refs in that (the Ravens) game seeming to want them to win so that they would go undefeated into the playoffs. That's how it came up. As you may imagine, I didn't disagree with him on the last point, either.

I've actually somewhere that Ellis may be doing well this camp--can't recall if it was a sportswriter or fan, but someone who watched some of the practices was saying that he looks a lot bigger and quicker this camp. I hope they're right, but I guess we'll see.....

Harrington, if only because of how high he was taken.....

Still waiting--please read my original request. Last ten years or so, and one that was acknowledged outside the NE fanbase to be controversial and/or wrong. For ex., fans in Hawaii two years later still remembering how the Ravens got screwed. Neither of your examples (if the Hobbs thing even counts, since it's incredibly vague) comes close to the mark. As noted, I can name at least 7 or 8 in the other direction. Sorry, play again.....

To paraphrase Tonto, "What's the "we" stuff, kemosabe?" You're a Bills fan? Yeah, right, tell me another one..... I'm making no excuses for a game that hasn't been played yet, but I'll say the same thing before this one that I say every time we play the Pats*--just don't let the refs decide this one. Many times they haven't--mainly the blowouts, but even last year's games, which were closer, the refs did not cost us those games. Yet as noted above, there have been several close games that seem to get handed to New England on a platter, and it's not just when they play us. I'll repeat my longstanding question that I've yet to get a legit answer from Pats* fans on--name me just one recent game (i.e, the last ten years or so) that the Pats* have lost in which a bad call or no call (acknowledged as such by fans outside the Pats* fanbase) from the officials late in the game played a big part in. I can name a whole bunch that went the other way, as can most real fans of the game. If these things were truly random, it would even out at some point, no? Yet I've never heard a legit answer on this from any Pats* fan and I've been asking it for about two years now.....

Once again, you show your ignorance--how long have you been a Pats* fan? 2002? First off, those were three separate games against the Bills I referenced. Any real Pats* fan with a knowledge of their own history would understand that, but I'll bet you weren't a Pats* fan for at least the "Just Give It To Them" game, as that was played about 9 or 10 years ago. Maybe not for the head out of bounds game, either. You surely must remember the 2006 opener, however, which the Pats* won by a whopping 2. Here's what TMQ said about that one: "The Patriots were flagged for just one 5-yard infraction, although there were at least four plays on which a Patriots offensive lineman wrapped both arms around a Buffalo pass-rusher, and the Flying Elvii benefited from an extremely convenient inadvertent whistle that ended a play when a Buffalo runner had 50 yards of green grass between him and the end zone. Meanwhile, the Bills were hit with seven penalties, including a ticky-tack nudge-in-the-back call that wiped out a fourth-quarter first down in New England territory and changed a scoring opportunity into a punt." http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...terbrook/060912 In the Ravens game there was more than one bad call or no call at the end of that game--in fact there were several. So many that Bart Scott spoke his (and many others') mind and got fined by the League. My personal favorite was a fourth and about 5 deep in Ravens territory. Brady goes back to pass, looks around, looks around, the pocket breaks down and he makes a run for it, barely squeaking out the 5 yards. Lo and behold, there was a flag on the Ravens--a very late flag, only thrown when the pocket broke down. You could see it thrown on TV, by the way. The call? Illegal contact for the defender on Moss, who was bumped AT THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PLAY, so why the flag only 4 seconds into the play when the pocket broke down and it appeared that Brady may not make the first down? BTW, the replay showed nothing more than a legal bump at the line. Or how about the other defensive hold on one of your TE's in the same drive, which the replay showed never happened. You see, there were multiple bad calls just on that drive, as any fan outside NE* recognized when the game was played. As I noted, I can't explain why these things happen, I'll leave that to you, but I only know what my eyes tell me......

If we kick your arse that game, will you promise to stay away? That would make it worth the price of admission.....

No, he's blaming them (as would anyone with eyes) for the 19-17 or so game three years ago, the "just give it to them" game and the game in which an unconscious Pats* player was found to somehow still have retained possession of a ball that was clearly Buffalo's. Those are just the games in which the officials screwed the Bills against the Pats*--as I'm sure you know, other teams all over the League have gotten the similar shaft the last decade or so as well when facing you. Reminds me--I was on vacation in Hawaii two weeks ago, talking football with the porter who'd commented on my Bills hat. Somehow New England came up and he, on his own, brought up how badly the Ravens got screwed in that Monday night game two years ago against you. Pats* fans love to think that it's just folks like us here in their division who hate them and think they cheat, but in reality it's fans all over the country.....

Careful, now, with your comments on the atrocious officiating that seems to follow the Pats* wherever they go or Mr. WEO (and maybe even Tim Graham) will call you a conspiracy theorist. That said, I'm with you, brother, on that one--as I've told both of them, I just know what my eyes (and the rule book) tell me. Not sure there's a conspiracy behind it, but boy oh boy do they seem to get all the calls and no calls in the book. Want to read something funny? Check out patsfans.com and the thread there on how the new officiating emphasis on calling offensive holding will somehow benefit the Colts (who always hold, don't you know). Pot meet kettle. I love that TMQ column where he talks about "the Flying Elvii" linemen just about tackling our DE's for much of the game a few years ago with not a single flag to show for it (they were penalized once for five yards the whole game, the game in which a sure Buffalo TD pick was called back by an "inadvertent whistle"). If I hadn't been banned there, I'd have linked them to it! As for this year's game, if history is any guide we will indeed need to find a game plan for the refs as well as the Pats*......

Okay, so he gets two more games than Lynch, not just one more--still incredibly light considering the scope of the relevant offense versus what Lynch got for his. This is all, of course, premised on believing that he should serve his NFL and jail punishments consecutively and not concurrently (which is admittedly debateable). Don't get me wrong here--I think Vick deserves to be reinstated, as he's paid his debt. That I'm not arguing with. I'm just arguing about the lightness of the treatment he got from the League and linking it to who is now likely to be signing him, something that I suspect League insiders had a suspicion (or possibly even actual knowledge of) when they made the suspension call on him. That said, the team that signs him also needs to admit that they're signing someone who did something very bad and should be prepared to take some heat for it. In that regard, if the Pats* do indeed sign him, don't get me started on the hypocrisy of Kraft and his media sycophants who make them out to be the model franchise, both in execution and morally. I think the latter may go by the boards on this one in most folks' eyes (those few fans not already sickened by Spygate, etc. that is), but watch certain members of the media spin this as somehow a great and wondrous thing New England* is doing for this poor man. Thanks for brining up the SB--my what a glorious game that was. Think I'll watch it again tonight. You may be able to thank Tomase for that one, actually, since Spygate seemed to cast a pall on the normal League forces that weekend......

Speaking of Marshawn, I should have added that I knew who our opening day opponent would be as soon as I heard Lynch was getting suspended--will wonders never cease, but the League favoritism shown to that team is just getting all too predictable (and laughable)......

I called this over a week ago, as soon as I saw the light suspension I figured he'd go to New England*--Goodell knew who had an interest in him and did his part to continue to serve his Master..... Funny, ain't it, that Marshawn gets 3 games for two minor incidents (one of which effectively in the eyes of the law at least turned out to be a traffic ticket), while Vick gets 4 games for a major felony that he did two years jail time for. About par for the course.....

Actually, many sources I've seen this afternoon link him to the Pats* as his most likely landing spot. Vick himself has said he's close to signing with someone. If it is indeed the Pats*, then that does quite clearly explain his "incredible gift from God(ell)" you wrote about--nothing like having friends in the League offices, huh? BTW, I called this one (Vick to Pats*) about a week ago, as soon as I saw he only got 4 games......

From a friend's (and a huge Colts fan's) blog--make of it what you will...... http://kylesmithonline.com/

Goodell's actions will become much clearer when the Pats* sign Vick......

On paper they're still better than we are at this point, but I do think that the gap is closing. Remember, even when Brady was last 100% (Dec and Jan, 2007-8) teams were playing them very close, even when losing to them--it was almost like the League had caught up to them. I'm not just talking the playoffs or that last Giants game in December, but also Philly and Baltimore playing them close in December, IIRC. In fact, Philly and the Ravens should have beaten them. I'd say they're a tad overrated, but we'll wait and see how they look--Brady's return could go either way. He could be gun shy or he could light us up for 50 points in his coming out party. I agree with the poster above that I'd send the house at him the first few series to check--kind of a "draw the flag if you have to (and we all know it will), but let him know he's playing live football again". Nothing dirty, mind you, but get in his face and hit him if it's close. Who knows, the poster above may be right--maybe we get the TB from that Giants SB and not the record setter who let his mouth overload his butt come crunch time that year (and I still can't believe the media hasn't called him more on that. After all, they were all Plax when he opened his mouth). On the other side, I do think that we're a better team than last year, but am concerned that it will take us a while to gel--the O-line especially. Not having Marshawn won't help either--I knew as soon as he got suspended we'd open with New England and what do you know, the Pats* friends in the NFL FO obliged them yet again (no big shock at this point). Kind of like them getting to play the Fins after a bye this season......

Tim, as you can see from our marathon thread below on the Pats and cheating, which went for 12 pages and counting, many folks a year later haven't forgiven or forgotten Spygate. If you're still reading, what say you to an article on fans of other teams' perception of the Pats and Spygate, etc. a year later? For ex., giving some of the folks here who think they cheated more than has been let on a voice in the mainstream media. Perception may not be reality, but sometimes perception alone (whether it be correct or not) can be the story. I suspect (in fact, I know, since I did it myself last year and saw a thread on a Steelers board just yesterday that brought this up as well) that if you poll fans of other teams you'll find that the folks here writing in the Pats thread are not the only ones who smell something rotten in Denmark when it comes to Spygate and New England more generally. I'd be curious whether ESPN (and the League) would take kindly to opening that back up, or whether that's something they just want the lid to stay on as tightly as possible.....

I was reading a thread/story (quoted on a Pats board, no less) earlier today from a Steelers board/site and in a piece on the 2004 AFCCG against the Pats* there were still a pretty large number of Steeler fans there who called you dirty cheaters. I suspect that's the reaction you get any time you mention the Pats anywhere else in the League. Wear that with pride, after all, you've earned it--and if your fantasy that Goodell and Kraft's plan to make this all go away worked on all NFL fans makes you sleep any better at night, then I won't burst your dream bubble. Fact is, however, that mention your team just about anywhere else in the League and "Cheater" is the first thing you'll hear (well, maybe "dirty cheater"). PS My father's been a janitor (and I would wager is twice the man you are), but I'll compare my educational credentials against yours any day of the week, genius--I was going to grad school in Boston when I was there and I'll let you figure the rest out on your own.....

Apparently you don't read much (no shock there)--either about football (the bolded portion there is ridiculous, for ex.) or even further up this thread, where many of your arguments have been deboned. I'm done, as all these points have been bludgeoned to death in this and countless other threads here and on many other message boards (folks in the rest of the League you'll find pretty much think you're all cheaters, too)--arguing with you is like having a battle of wits with an unarmed man..... PS For ex., both Athlon Sports and PFW have the Jets 4th and the Dolphins 2nd this coming season. I'm pretty sure the Sporting News did as well, but couldn't find the link.

No, I still have a point. Division games are the most meaningful in terms of playoff chances and seedings and many of those years we were (rightly or wrongly as history turned out) considered likely to be No. 2 in the Division. Kind of like Miami is this year--who's that you're playing after the bye-week again this year? Like I said, it really pays to have friends at League HQ--those same friends who made sure that when you had 4 West Coast games last year you got to play two sets of back to back games...... PS That reminds me--during Spygate Dr. Z at SI.com (God bless him) actually had the gall to wonder aloud in his column, on his own behalf and on behalf of other unnamed NFL sources, whether the League was handling Spygate and the Pats* with kid gloves because Kraft was the team's owner and was a very influential owner in League management circles (not to mention helping Goodell get the job in the first place). He seemed to think that others would not have been so lucky had they been in the Pats* shoes, and, as you'll see from this thread, many others around the League agree with him.

No, I just like to point out when they seem to get different treatment than the rest of the League. Kind of like Wilfork getting fined 4 times in one season, but not suspended, when Roy Williams (S) gets suspended a game for two horse collar tackles during the same season. Or things like the fact that the Pats* got to play the Bills 4 years in a row after their bye week--odds of that happening as a "coincidence"? About 4,000 to 1. BTW, guess who the Pats* play this year after their bye--Miami, their biggest rival in the division this year, much like we'd been (or seen to have been pre-season) much of those prior 4 years. It's good to have friends in the League office apparently.....

How about you selling 19000 season tickets (in a city 5 times the size of Buffalo) in the early 90s? The Bills could go 0-16 and sell twice that. I lived there then and it was hysterical how much an afterthought to the Sox and Celtics the Pats* were.....

That was exactly my point--it's been about 5 years since you've drafted a difference maker on either line (and that was WITH Pioli and Dimitroff, neither of whom are there any more). Laurence Maroney and Chad Jackson are more representative of your recent drafts. Tough to call Meriweather a "rookie" after he's played 18 NFL games, no? By that measure, he'd played more games than Poz had played after his second season in the League, so maybe he was a rookie last year, too, by that measure..... PS Your Kaczur mention reminds me--how is it that Lynch gets a 3 game sitdown for having a gun in his trunk, while good old Nicky boy gets a big NADA for having intent to deal quantities of Oxy? Must have brought Mrs. Wilfork with him for his meeting with Goodell--I hear she helped get Fat Vince off last year from what should have been a multi-game suspension for cheap shots (and would have been had he played for anyone else).....

Mayo's good, but overrated (funny how that happens to a lot of Pats* players, isn't it?) and Meriweather's really nothing special, IMHO. I still laugh every time I see him blow the coverage on that little out to Steve Smith for the key first down on the G-Men's game-winning TD drive in that Super Bowl that I've watched more times than you can count! When was the last time you drafted an O-lineman or D-lineman who started or was worth a crap? Logan Mankins, maybe what, 4 or 5 years ago?

Keep drafting like you have the last few years (Mayo aside) and you'll be having that mental conversation a bit sooner than you and half of "Pats* Nation" think.....