Lv-Bills

Makes sense, which is exactly why we should have pursued a youngish OL'men out there. What good are these three players going to do for us? I'd rather have knocked Bentley's socks off, and overpayed than adding these three players to our roster. And we still would have had more money. It's not like all of our cash would have gone to one player.

No, for every Steve Young, there are about 50 Bennie Anderson's. Most of the chumps of the NFL stay chumps. Most of the stars, stay stars, and then eventually fade. I'm not 100% convinced I'm right. After years of sucking ass, I am 100% convinced that we need MUCH better players, than Royal, Triplett and Davis. I'm so sick of the "you're a moron, cuz you're impatient" crowd that swarms on people who are sick and tired of dumb football moves that don't address issues. The doooooooooooooooomed crowd is just as mindless and tiresome as the people who actually can justify that we have signed some nobody's. It speaks for itself when the only comebacks for these three retreads are nicely worded little quips and no actual football basis or football information that can get anyone excited about them joining our team. Where are the studs? I'll take these three players any day, but only AFTER we adress our real issues. The be patient, doooomed thing, is really old, especially on a team that has sucked as long as we have. I like the other approach myself.

We would all hope our front office would be good at multi-tasking. But, when you become among the bottom feeders of the NFL, and get stuck there for awhile, you get leary. When your line clearly needs addressed, and you AGAIN, don't address it first, with the little bit of talent this is out there, you get leary. The talent left out there now is getting close to nil. Are we going to draft seven offensive lineman, and hope they all grow up fast? But hey, on 3rd and 1, we'll just pound it behind Robert Royal, and maybe even Andre Davis can run a fade route to take his CB out of the play and make more room for Willis. Now, we're talking.

No. Young was behind a bad line and a young hotshot QB in Tampa. It was hard for him to get on the field because of circumstances and an ownership group that wouldn't commit to him. Montana was a playoff QB in KC and while not in his prime, was still very serviceable. Seau was old in Miami, period. The edge to Arizona is a great move, yes. When you add the edge in Arizona with those two great WR's, it's just something else to really worry about. Much closer to a playoff team than us? You bet your ass they are. No doubt. Edge can not only run, but is also another threat to catch the ball alongside of maybe the already best 1-2 punch in the league. Not to mention they had trouble putting the ball in the endzone last year and settled for FG's alot. They have line trouble too, but adding a hard running, all around back will help them more than a Willis McGahee will help our poruous line. Wiley, yeah, you have a point. No one knows what happened to him, however, it wasn't necessarily a bad signing based on judging his past performance. We are talking about adding three guys, that have never performed and have been let go from teams for underachieving. In Davis' case, this is his third team. Judging by the Skins, if they really wanted Royal, they would have found a way to keep him. I mean, come on. Triplett was replaced in Indy, by a guy that was thought to be the main reason Indy would finally get to the Super Bowl. At that point, Triplett became good depth, because he actually was behind two NFL starting caliber DT's. Now, since most of your posts are based around smartass comments, let's go the other way. Think, for instance of all the NFL players that have sucked on one team and still sucked on the team they've gone to another team. They are endless. They aren't as recognizable because they are never good, period, so how do you indentify them? But in honor of "your game", let's try......and I don't even need to go back 25 years, we can just do it on our current / almost current roster........How about a guy like Trey Teague considered a suckass LT in Denver, coming here, and pretty much sucking in Buffalo too? Does he count? How about Mark Campbell pretty much being a zero in Cleveland and then coming here and pretty much also being a zero? What about Bennie Anderson, who caught the ire of the Ravens fans, media and head coach also sucking there and then coming here and also sucking ass? Wasn't Posey average in Houston and very very mediocre at best here in Buffalo? How about Billy Shaw? Average somewhere else, and non-existant here in Buffalo? Believe this list is a lot longer than guys you've named. This list goes on and on and on too. But, while our O-Line needs addressed......guess what? We are pretty much down to our own versions of the over-the-hill Junior Seau's and Joe Montana's of the world out there. Jon Runyan anyone? There are many 30 plus year olds out there meandering around, since everyone else is gone. But hey, be patient, we got three guys that are the envy of the league. One of which, by his own admission, wasn't even on the radar screen of one other team to that point. And history will again repeat itself again, unless a miracle happens at this point.

See, this is fine, and makes sense to a point. But Triplett was a guy that Indy had to replace, so they went out and got Corey Simon. Triplett is a guy with a lot of flaws. We couldn't stop the run last season. Triplett is not a run stopper. Period. But yet, we cut what little talent we did have and signed Triplett. I mean, come on. Triplett will look better if we can sign a stud next to him. I'm so sick of the he fits the system thing too. Unless the system says that Triplett never has to make a tackle when the other team runs, then (chances are) he really wasn't the player we needed at this time. Maybe AFTER we get Pickett, or Bernard or whoever it may be. The Pats needed Davis badly, because they had injuries. And they got burned. Now, we are the third team, in what, 4 years to give Davis a chance? Although, weirdly, I like signing Davis. But still. And Royal is just absurd. Period. I would have made a run at Bentley. Period. ALMOST whatever it would have taken. Almost. Do I think we would have gotten him? No. I would have had a QUICK plan B and moved on to ANY spot on our offensive line most likely when Bentley fell through. Any. I don't care if the guy was a C, G or T. Any. The problem, according to some of us, is that we are AGAIN doing stupid crap and avoiding what we really need. If we were the Pats and I was bitching, OK. But, we are a team that has been in a playoff void for many years. These three "character-depth" players are not going to get us there. And by signing these three, to guys like me, means that we didn't pursue some proven lineman or there aren't nearly as many proven players left out there. We are getting to the point where we are looking at mid 30's vets who are just as risky as their younger, bust-type counterparts, IMO.

Seriously, I'm not sure. I mean, that's a valid point. But.....did we try? We could have asked for a figure to be thrown out there and then went from there. You know, this is along the lines of a lot of things around here. Coach A or Coach B won't come to Buffalo because it's cold, and we have no money, and it's not attractive. But, for some reason, the team gets a pass for not even trying. I want the front office that tries. I want Mark Cuban. I want those types of owners who demand their GM's are creative and good recruiters. The jury is out on Marv, so I don't necessarily mean him at this point. Spikes came here because of the fans in that last home game. He also came for some money. If we can lure Spikes, we certainly can lure others. Hutch for instance. If we sign him, and overpay him a little, even at guard.....does it really matter? If he is really as good as everyone says he is, would he not deserve to make much more money than the rest of our O-line? Can't we run behind his fat ass (Hutchinson's) on 3rd and 1 and get the first down? But instead, we'll be in a tight game against Miami or someone. It'll be third and one from the Dolphins 27. We'll run behind a line with makeshift players and former TE's that didn't even start in college, and we won't convert. Rian Lindell will then come on, and miss a pressure packed 44 yd field goal and we'll lose 17-16. And the cycle goes on and on and on and on. We need some studs on the line. Period. We don't YET need Royal, Davis and Triplett. What good is adding depth to a team that sucks? Depth infers that these guys aren't starting caliber players. We need some studs on that line. But yet, here we go again, not addressing the glaring weakness.

It's also just football. It's also just as easy as having a good QB (let's say Kelly), knowing that he needs a 3 step drop with enough time (behind a good offensive line - Hull) to throw to a good receiver (let's say Andre Reed) no matter what defense is being played, and knowing that the WR will shield his body and get postion to make the play no matter what. We don't have Kelly, Reed or Hull on this team, but yet, everyone is happy that we are adding "depth" players at this point. That's my whole point. Reed will make 10 plays a game. "Depth" will make 1 or 2 plays during the game. "Depth" is OK, only if you have Kelly, Reed and Hull to make sure that the depth aren't the players who are the foundation of the team. Who are our Kelly, Reed and Hull on that play? Ummm ok.

I'm under the assumption that "depth" is added to supplement the team in place now. So, our team is basically crap the way it is constructed now. I mean, judging by the simple fact that we haven't done squat in many years. So, we are to add depth (meaning players as good as what we have, or not as good as what we have and willing to play roles) to the scrap heap we have now? How about this stupid football logic......let's get some NFL caliber, above average, starters, and then add depth around those guys to fill in and help out. For instance, this novel concept. Let's get some proven NFL lineman. Let's build a NFL line the way it should be built. AND THEN ADD DEPTH to it. How the hell are we gonna add below average guys to a bad football team and be happy about it? We are adding below average depth to the crap we already have. How about adding NFL caliber starters, and worry about role players after we actually have a functioning NFL line. LeCharles Bentley would have been way more important than all three of guys combined. Mainly because, there is only one LeCharles Bently type player out there.............these other guys are a dime a dozen. And if we can wait and be paitent for the Studs out there, we certainly can wait and be patient in order sign below average football players too.

Gimmie a break. You DO NOT add three sub-par NFL players to a team that was 5-11 and expect them to be role players that this team needs. What's the role here? To be role players to a bunch of players that already can't get it done? This team NEEDS studs. This team NEEDS LeCharles Bentley type players, and then, only after it has improved some, does it need these role players. If your #1 WR can go out and be elite (which Moulds isn't) and your #2 looks like he can someday be a #1 (which we think he maybe can, which isn't good enough) THEN you add Davis. You don't cut EVERY DT you friggin have and then add Larry Triplett. You stick Triplett NEXT to someone who can actually play the game at a high level. The Colts went out and got their Corvette with Corey Simon, and THEN Triplett was a decent role player. He was the Colts third option. Right now he's our first option. LeCharles Bentley, even if we overpayed him, or a player of his likeness, is more valuable to this team then the combo of Robert Royal and Triplett combined. Right now, we have a terrible line, and we just signed two more players that are at that same level. The Patriots have some Corvette's and then they added some Civics to the stable to do some dirty work. We have ZERO Corvette's. We need some badly, before we think about developing depth. All of this so called "depth", could have added up to a stud on the line that would have made a much bigger impact on third and a long one, then Royal, Davis, or Triplett.

You're damn right I am. The Corvette's never go on sale or have special financing either, so when are we going to pony up for one? Never saw a Civic wow anyone, or win a race.

Yeah, when Wilson explained himself in the Buffalo News he sounded pretty good. I'm just surprised that the Rooney's and a couple of other small market teams went in the direction of Jones and gang also. Surprising!

Yes, because you don't add depth to a team that sucks. All that says to me is that you added three more sub-par to average guys to a team that already has trouble winning. You get a team at, or almost at a high level, then you add depth.

And this is very true. However, after the constant losing and meandering around, seemingly without direction, it does not help when you go out and get Dick Jauron. The cycle just continues and continues.

And I'm still looking for the personal attack in the above post. The reason it gets so frustrating, is because the personal attacks usually come the other way when someone doesn't agree with "the company line." Chicken littles, or they get belittled for raising questions about just who these below average players are. I'm so sick of the "are you in an NFL front office, do you really know what you are talking about responses?" I mean, if that's the case, Tom Donahoe is really no better than we are is he? He had no clue what he was doing either. I guess it really just kind of shows, that we really aren't all that far removed from these guys who judge talent either. Football isn't brain surgery as so many people try to make it out to be. But it doesn't take much more than a convenience store clerk to realize that three below average NFL players aren't going to put a 5-11 team over the top and into a first round bye in the NFL playoffs. Especially when we still haven't addressed our biggest needs and the rest of the league has already gobbled up over 125 free agents. But hey, be patient.

Weren't they like 23 million or so over the cap at the beginning of all of this though?

Yeah, the problem is, we don't have Tom Brady. We don't have a Richard Seymour. We don't have an offensive line, let alone O-line depth. We also don't have Bill Belicheck. We don't have Rodney Harrison or some of the Pats leadership like McGinest, Brown, Vrabel and Bruschi. While Belicheck lucked into Brady playing, he also stuck with him, in what was a difficult decision to play an unproven kid over Bledsoe. Marv is bringing in "character" guys (which is a start), but the Patriots have a team full of "character" guys who are far above average NFL players. Big Difference.

Hines Ward is one of the top 5 WR's in the league and his catch totals are lower than alot of WR's. It has a little to do with the Pittsburgh offense. And yeah, Randle has the "it" factor. He shoved it up our ass here in Buffalo in 2004 in that last game. However, would I give El that last contract? No. Why? Becuase I would have given, and even slightly overpaid, to get some damn lineman in here. And that could have been on EITHER side of the ball. And don't give me this friggin crap that Royal is a player who was brought here to help our O-Line. I want a damn O-line that can play. Not a TE that is going to help our O-line. While there is some merit to "wait it out" crowd, Triplett is a below average lineman who will be barely average in there by himself. Like I said though, that could change quickly with Rocky Bernard signing. Bernard would make Tripplett alot better in my opinion. BUT, that stuff hasn't happened since John Butler and Polian used to be creative with our money. I mean seriously, wanna be able to let Nate Clements walk and free up money? Get a serious pass rush. Wanna be able to watch ANY running back do well, or have JP more comfortable in the pocket? Sign some damn good lineman. Lineman can make a lot of unknown skill players household names. It hardly ever works out the other way around. Some of us just want that progressive thinking again.

Yeah, they are. There is no doubt about that. And no, people B word because we aren't putting together a team that can go to the playoffs AND NOT get their asses to them. While I'm not a front office guru, like football is actually brain surgery, I know we most likely aren't building toward a playoff win with perennial loser Dick Jauron leading a 5-11 team from a prior year that has added three below average NFL caliber players to this point in their careers. It's a little troublesome. But hey, we re-upped with Jerman yesterday, maybe he just wasnt' coached right last year.

Oh, and here I thought the Skins actually made the playoffs once in the last 5 years. Oh how sad it is to hope we can get there just once every 5 years.

LOL Come on, you know how the mature, don't be impatient crowd is level headed and clearly sees things better than the rest. Here is their formula the last 5 years or so with all of this..... "It's only the first day of Free Agency, you morons." "It's still early in Free Agency, you morons." ***meanwhile you end up with B. Anderson and the like. Then it switches to the ever so cutsie: "Doooooooooooooooooooooomed" That is supposed to show that the informed fan is both showing patience and even more maturity than the fans that aren't thrilled with the three below average NFL players that we have signed so far (although I kind of like the Andre Davis signing for some odd reason). Then we get...... "We haven't had time to gel yet, because it's early in training camp." Then....... "Any idiot knows we only have 2, first team, first downs, in four pre-season games, because we're being vanilla and not really even trying to do well." Then, the progression continues with the...... "We're only 1-3 you idiots, it's early." And then the cycle continues with the...... "Seriously people, even though we're out of it again, we're only one or two guys away from being right back in it." And THEN, after what is now only 2 years (Instead of 4 or 5).........we'll hear about how bad of a place Buffalo is, and that's why we can't attract good, quality, head coaches to Buffalo. So, the team gets a pass on even trying to bring one here as we end up with the Jaurons and Mularkeys of the world. And so the cycle now continues with you.......don't sweat it man, sooner or later the lemmings (as they like to call us chicken littles) will get lucky and have their day in the sun and we'll get a road wild card game as a 9-7 team.......and they can all scream I TOLD YOU SO. Even though it took 12 years or so. Let's just hope Marv has more plans in place. A guy like a Rocky Bernard would make Larry Tripplett a much, much better signing. Keeping Moulds, would make Andre Davis much more valuable as a #3. Moulds is a necessity, not because he is that good, but because there is nothing really out there. As for fuggin Robert Royal......you've gotta be kidding me. But oh well, that is one we can pin totally on Marv at the end of the season and see how it plays out. There isn't anyone on this board that wanted Robert Royal or probably even knew who he was. I hope Marv is right.

Noted. And it wouldn't be extreme to that extent. When we did get a new DE or CB who could play, I'd sign him long term. However, all money would always still go to offense. So, whatever is locked up after you sign everyone (O and D) it always goes to offense. Draft always to defense. I don't know, I think it would be interesting to say the least.

5 years, 25 million with 10 million up front? Or did we happen to get this particular backup player a little bit cheaper? God, I hope so.

I would love to take over a team and try this method for about 5 years to see if would pan out. Spend all available cap room each year on the offensive side of the football. Spend every draft pick each year on the defensive side of the football. Spending your money on proven offensive lineman, or proven skill players who you know can perform at the NFL level wouldn't be much of a risk. You could also pick up your backups on the market too. THere are plenty of Gandy's to go around. Drafting a ton of defensive players each year should give you ample and youngish talent each year to keep the cupboard stocked. You would have to re-up your best players on defense from time to time, but by bringing in so many young new players, you should be able to keep reloading alot too. I mean, a good bit of them would have to pan out eventually. So, this year, you come in for the Bills. After I lock up who we want, I spend all my available cap money or budgeted money on the offense. Lineman, WR's, TE's and maybe a QB. I draft ALL defensive players. Maybe 3 DL, 3 Secondary and a LB. And continue this trend for about 5 years. I think it would work. You are buying known commodities, and drafting quanitity to find quality. It should relatively balance out your cap also. By having so many young defensive players each season (barring the one's you wish to sign long term, aka studs) you should be realatively inexpensive on that side of the ball while being a little more cap heavy on the offensive side. I don't know, I just think it would be interesting to try. Thoughts?

And just how should Gandy be classified now?

Ummmm, I believe for those fans who toke off of the Bills pipe no matter who they sign, kept describing Big Bennie as our new "Road Grader" last year. Ummm yeah....ok!